Interesting Gun Safety Lesson

[BobG]

Okay, maybe not great marks for technical merit, but high marks for style and definitely very high marks for dedication. What a trooper!

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0411061foot1.html (Click the picture for the video)

[Kurdt]

I saw this on youtube or something similar. I can't believe the guy is suing because was it not his responsibility to check the gun was free of ammo before he lectured in front of kids?

But yes in terms of pure shock therapy for the school kids I suppose this was one of his better presentations.

[russ_watters]

Where does it say that? All I see is that he's suing because the tape was released to the public.

[BobG]

I saw this on youtube or something similar. I can't believe the guy is suing because was it not his responsibility to check the gun was free of ammo before he lectured in front of kids?

But yes in terms of pure shock therapy for the school kids I suppose this was one of his better presentations.
Actually, he's suing because of the video being released to the public.

I guess you can expect people to make fun of him, just like people made fun of Cheney, but it really gets to the heart of why gun safety is important. Anyone can have an accident.

I was just impressed he kept trying to continue the lesson - at least until he saw the terror of the audience when he brought out the next gun. :rofl:

[Kurdt]

Ahh. Lesson Learned: read more than just the headline.

[hypatia]

He was a idiot, plain and simple.

[tribdog]

He was a idiot, plain and simple.
was? a zebra doesn't change its spots.

[Cyrus]

stripes you dumb dumb, stripes.

[chroot]

I can't believe this is the sort of person we have "educating" our children. "I'm da only one in dis room pro-fessional enough to BLAM" In fact, I can't even believe these geniuses brought any ammunition, at all, into that classroom.

- Warren

[Rach3]

Very educational.

[Kurdt]

"I'm da only one in dis room pro-fessional enough to BLAM" In fact, I can't even believe these geniuses brought any ammunition, at all, into that classroom.

- Warren
One could say, with that line he shot himself in the foot literally and metaphorically.

[Cyrus]

One could say, with that line he shot himself in the foot literally and metaphorically.

HAH!!! :rofl:

[tribdog]

stripes you dumb dumb, stripes.
I'm not taking my clothes off for anyone.

[Cyrus]

That would be strips, not stripes.

[tribdog]

a building for dead people? what does that have anything to do with guns?

[Cyrus]

a building for dead people? what does that have anything to do with guns?

One of these days trib......straight to the moon!!

[Chi Meson]

I'm feeling sorry for the guy. Everything else he has done is overshadowed by this incident. But jeeze. Loaded Gun? Safety off? In front of kids? He really blew it. For at least one moment in time, everyone is an idiot. His moment is being played all over the web.

The kids should have had a chance to see a guy like that on the "right side" of law and order, but instead they saw an "idiot."

[Moonbear]

Actually, he's suing because of the video being released to the public.

I guess you can expect people to make fun of him, just like people made fun of Cheney, but it really gets to the heart of why gun safety is important. Anyone can have an accident.

I was just impressed he kept trying to continue the lesson - at least until he saw the terror of the audience when he brought out the next gun. :rofl:

:bugeye: I was impressed he held it together long enough to continue talking, but thought he was just going to stop after he explained that bit about anyone can have an accident, and that's why they shouldn't play with guns. I figured he just continued to that point not to frighten the kids more than they already were. But, then to keep going...:eek:

But, yeah, he doesn't exactly talk like someone you'd want educating your kids. Everything looked a bit disorganized from the start, like he'd never done an educational thing before. And, to bring a loaded weapon into a classroom and hold it up...stupid stupid stupid!!!!

Though, it sounds like the main reason he's suing about the video being released is that he can no longer work undercover, but doesn't going out and giving public talks sort of blow your cover too?

[Cyrus]

I dont think he knew it was loaded.

[Bystander]

First thing my daddy taught me about guns --- every gun is always loaded.

[edward]

I dont think he knew it was loaded.
Apparently he didn't.

[chroot]

I dont think he knew it was loaded.

I hope you're not saying that as if it were a valid excuse... it only takes, oh, two seconds to check to see if it's loaded.

I watched the video a while ago, but, if I'm not mistaken, he actually had the slide back, chamber empty, and had pulled the trigger once. I just don't think he realized the magazine wasn't empty... and pulling the trigger once had chambered a round.

Of course, checking to see if a gun is unloaded involves two actions: removing the magazine and checking the chamber...

- Warren

[Cyrus]

I hope you're not saying that as if it were a valid excuse... it only takes, oh, two seconds to check to see if it's loaded.

I watched the video a while ago, but, if I'm not mistaken, he actually had the slide back, chamber empty, and had pulled the trigger once. I just don't think he realized the magazine wasn't empty... and pulling the trigger once had chambered a round.

Of course, checking to see if a gun is unloaded involves two actions: removing the magazine and checking the chamber...

- Warren

No, Im saying I dont think he knew he had a loaded gun in his hand. That's all. Everyone is saying he took a loaded gun into the class on purpose, I dont think he realized it was loaded.

[edward]

Two other people were standing by the table where the weapons were laying. They apparently were also experienced weaopns handlers or they would not have been close to the weapons. They all probably thought someone else had cleared the weapon.

[Cyrus]

Man he was damn lucky it didnt go off when he was holding it up and pointing it sideways. That would have been bad. Those people to his left could have gotten shot in the upper body.

[tribdog]

If one of those kids was mine I would be demanding he be brought up on some sort of charges. Who cares if he looked dumb or if he got hurt the fact is he stupidly and carelessly endangered those kids.

[Bystander]

Thinking it over, this has got to be another hoax --- slides lock on empty magazines, no one's that dumb --- "undercover" giving a public gun safety demonstration? "Hook, line, sinker, rod, reel, and boat" --- we all bit.

[chroot]

Thinking it over, this has got to be another hoax --- slides lock on empty magazines, no one's that dumb --- "undercover" giving a public gun safety demonstration? "Hook, line, sinker, rod, reel, and boat" --- we all bit.

Good thought process, but it's actually true!

http://www.snopes.com/photos/accident/gunsafety.asp

Good thing we all pay so much tax to support fine, efficient, and effective organizations like the DEA, eh?

- Warren

[Chi Meson]

Thinking it over, this has got to be another hoax --- slides lock on empty magazines, no one's that dumb --- "undercover" giving a public gun safety demonstration? "Hook, line, sinker, rod, reel, and boat" --- we all bit.
Hmm, that does sound fishy.








HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA......eh

[tribdog]

that's one dead kitten for you

[Moonbear]

No, Im saying I dont think he knew he had a loaded gun in his hand. That's all. Everyone is saying he took a loaded gun into the class on purpose, I dont think he realized it was loaded.
That just makes it more stupid. If he's "da only one in da room profeshnul 'nuf" to handle that gun, he ought to know how to check it before setting foot in that classroom. Why even keep a magazine in it at all, empty or otherwise? He shouldn't have even had a working gun in a room full of children! For a classroom demo, bring in guns that have been modified so they won't fire. For that matter, why do you need to bring them in at all?

[Cyrus]

There's no harm in having a magazine in a gun, or a gun for that matter, in a classroom, provided that you are careful. He was not careful. Every year the airshow has all their guns out (w/ magazines) for people to hold, and no one gets hurt. It's just a matter of double checking things.

Somone posted something a while ago about a retired cop who was teaching HS physics and would shoot a bullet into a ballistic pendulum. I think thats fine....but everyone got into a fuss because he's firing a gun inside a school.....:rolleyes:

[Bystander]

Good thought process, but it's actually true!

http://www.snopes.com/photos/accident/gunsafety.asp

Good thing we all pay so much tax to support fine, efficient, and effective organizations like the DEA, eh?

- Warren

"(A bit of humor occurred a few minutes later when the agent called for his assistant to hand him another gun, and a voice from the audience called out: "Put it down! Put it down!")" Dunno --- that reads like an SNL or "Scary Movie, Part N" script. Have to check with my "spies" in Orlando.

[tribdog]

There's no harm in having a magazine in a gun, or a gun for that matter, in a classroom, provided that you are careful. He was not careful. Every year the airshow has all their guns out (w/ magazines) for people to hold, and no one gets hurt. It's just a matter of double checking things.

It's when the people at the gun show have their planes out for people to handle that real trouble starts.

[scorpa]

First thing my daddy taught me about guns --- every gun is always loaded.

Lol my dad said the exact same thing to me....then heard it again in hunter education class....then again on the campout. But I guess that guy is so professional he doesnt need to heed the warnings he's probably heard a million times before to.

[moose]

Well, Im glad that he didn't follow *ANY* basic safety rules
-The gun is always loaded
-Never point the gun at anything you don't want to destroy
-Finger off the trigger until ready to shoot

What a moron... Amazing...

[DaveC426913]

There's no harm in having a magazine in a gun, or a gun for that matter, in a classroom, provided that you are careful.As you saw, there is harm. Having only one decision/action/error separating a live citizen from the potential for a dead citizen is not enough of a safety margin of error.

So many stupid things went wrong here. Pretty much of all them involve someone (mostly him) not checking and emptying the gun before...
- entering the room
- putting the guns out on the table
- picking a gun up
- DISCHARGING IT (even if empty)

Forget suing anyone. He should be fired.

[Cyrus]

As you saw, there is harm. Having only one decision/action/error separating a live citizen from the potential for a dead citizen is not enough of a safety margin of error.

So many stupid things went wrong here. Pretty much of all them involve someone (mostly him) not checking and emptying the gun before...
- entering the room
- putting the guns out on the table
- picking a gun up
- DISCHARGING IT (even if empty)

Forget suing anyone. He should be fired.

Did you read the part after the comma? :biggrin:

[chroot]

Forget fired, I think he should be shot.

Oh, wait...

- Warren

[HallsofIvy]

I recently attended a "gun safety" program at my son's Boy Scout troop. In fact, I helped take the lecturer to the meeting. He took rifles from his (locked) rifle case, checking the breech to make sure there was no bullet in the chamber as he took each rifle out. When he placed each in the trunk of my car, he again checked the chamber. As he took the rifles out of my car, he checked the chamber of each one. When he placed the rifles on the table in the hall (each rifle pointing away from the audience) he checked the chamber of each one. During the lesson, he had several boys come up and hold a rifle. Each time he checked the chamber as he picked the rifle up from the table before he gave it to the boy and, of course, made sure that the boy also checked the chamber.

Needless to say, he did not bring any ammunition to the lesson.

[Echo 6 Sierra]

Glock's don't have safety's except maybe a small tab inlaid in the trigger. Basically, its on safe until you pull the trigger. Please correct me if I'm wrong. That makes it an EXTRA no-no to have taken it into the class. I would like to know what happened to the expended round. Unless he had frangible rounds loaded (I bet not) there had to have been a ricochet because a round that heavy has to have extra propellant to get it where it needs to go even after passing through a body part. He should lose his job.

[J77]

Why have the gun in the class in the first place?

Bravado?

Safest way to deal with guns is to ban them.

[scorpa]

Why have the gun in the class in the first place?

Bravado?

Safest way to deal with guns is to ban them.

Assuming that the instructor isn't an idiot, there is nothing wrong with bringing a gun into a class, gun safety classes are very uselful in my opinion. That gun should have been checked multiple times to ensure it was not loaded. I attended a gun safety class when I took Hunter Education, after the class we went out and had the chance to shoot a variety of rifles and shotguns, it was a great, safe, controlled day taught by responsible instructors.

[J77]

Hunter Education ?!?!?!? :surprised

[scorpa]

Hunter Education ?!?!?!? :surprised

You bet, the only good "option" class my school ever had. That class was the funnest and most memorable thing I have ever done. It taught a lot about wilderness survival, proper and safe gun handling, different types and uses for different types of firearms (and ammunition) and bows, proper way to skin an animal (this part was only theoretical of course :tongue: ). At the end of the class we went of a 3 day long campout where we had to build our own shelter lean-to out of any sticks and logs we could find, survival hikes, learn how to shoot and handle a gun safely, canoeing, archery and so on and so forth. It was a great time, and an experience I will never forget.

[J77]

Do they teach you how to fell trees using an AK47? :biggrin: :wink: :tongue:

[scorpa]

Nope they gave us a splitting axes and hacksaws for that ....AK-47 probably would have been faster though...haha :)

[DaveC426913]

Did you read the part after the comma? :biggrin:
Yes. What I'm saying is "being careful" leaves only one level of safety. When dealing with things that can kill, a mere one level is simply not enough.

[Cyrus]

I never said to have only one level of safety, that's not my definition of being careful.

[Moonbear]

Assuming that the instructor isn't an idiot, there is nothing wrong with bringing a gun into a class, gun safety classes are very uselful in my opinion. That gun should have been checked multiple times to ensure it was not loaded. I attended a gun safety class when I took Hunter Education, after the class we went out and had the chance to shoot a variety of rifles and shotguns, it was a great, safe, controlled day taught by responsible instructors.
Except the instructor was an idiot. How many people involved in gun accidents thought they were being careful and thought the gun wasn't loaded?

Just the tone of his talk leading up to him shooting himself left me thinking that showing these guns off to the kids, had he not shot himself, would have been a completely ineffective way to get them to learn gun safety. If anything, it seemed to have the tone of, "Look at my cool gun, like all the rappers talk about, and I'm the only one here who can play with it," which sounds like something that would be more likely to tempt a kid to want to play with a gun the next time they saw one.

Our gun safety lesson in school was simple...if you see a gun, don't touch it! That would be fairly well undermined if you then handed a kid a gun to hold. Sure, it was followed up with things like never point a gun at anyone, and always assume it's loaded, but the main lesson was that all that should be irrelevant, because you're not going to pick it up in the first place...if you see a gun somewhere, call a grown-up.

It's a very different lesson you teach to little kids about gun safety when the objective is to keep them from accidentally shooting someone when playing with a gun they shouldn't be touching at all, vs what you teach to someone who needs to learn to safely handle a gun, which is what hunting safety would cover. Even for a hunting safety course, you don't bring a glock into a classroom! I really don't think a gun belongs in a classroom at all, even for hunter education. If you're going to put a gun in the hands of an inexperienced handler with the intent of teaching them to be an experienced handler, it should be outdoors or at a firing range. Unless you want to shoot someone, even a law enforcement officer carrying a loaded weapon indoors should have it holstered. That guy is damn lucky that bullet didn't ricochet and hit a kid!

I think that video clip should be incorporated into every gun safety lesson offered! It really does highlight how carelessness about assuming a gun is not loaded, even in the hands of a supposedly trained professional, can lead to an accident.

[scorpa]

I suppose I should clarify that in my class the guns were to be touched only by the instructor, we did not even get to hold them in the classroom situation. Most of our classroom stuff was determinging what kind of gun was what by looking at pictures, learning about different types of actions....ammunitions ect. Once we were outside we were taught to properly handle the firearms, and shoot them. Our instructors had to take many courses in how to properly demonstrate firearms handling and so on, and were never so stupid as the guy in the video.

I think that teaching gun safety to such young children should consist only of if you see a gun don't touch it, assume it's loaded and can hurt or kill. There is no need to actually show it to a group of what I am assuming were city children, who really have no reason to be exposed to firearms of any kind. As a child all of our firearms were always kept in a locked safe that to this day I do not know where the key is kept. If for any reason a gun was kept out, it was never loaded, and we KNEW there would be huge consequences for touching it.

I have no problem with teenagers/young adults learning to properly handle a gun. I don't know a single family without at least one firearm, and you should at least know how to properly safe the gun when you are around them so much.

In my area there have never been any gun related injuries, deaths or anyting of negative nature ever occur. People are educated about the subject and know what is safe and what is not. In my opinion, and this is only my opinion, it is when people are uneducated about proper handling that things become a problem. That being said the guy in the video is an idiot, should not have been teaching that class, and should never be allowed to teach again. Walking around pointed the gun completely defeated the purpose of what that class was, to tell the children about the dangers of guns and what to do if they find one. Sorry if my reply is a bit all over the place but I'm between classes right now and am in a bit of a hurry :)

[DaveC426913]

Why have the gun in the class in the first place?
Bravado?
Safest way to deal with guns is to ban them.
We could bury our heads in the sand...

It was a gun/violence education class.

[J77]

We could bury our heads in the sand...
What, and ignore the fact that the more people owning guns means more people getting shot?

[DaveC426913]

What, and ignore the fact that the more people owning guns means more people getting shot?
By this you seem to be suggesting that gun awareness is equivalent to making guns more prevalent.

And that not teaching citizens will somehow take guns off the streets?

[J77]

By this you seem to be suggesting that gun awareness is equivalent to making guns more prevalent.

And that not teaching citizens will somehow take guns off the streets?No, I believe that people shouldn't have guns in the first place.

Teaching people how to use guns responsibly is a side issue.

And if that teaching has anything to do with self-defence, it won't work.

I remember when I first started karate when I was younger - the instructor got some rubber knives out and said to us, "what would you do if someone came at you with a knife". Everyone was like, "Kick it out" - Jackie Chan style. The instructor laughed and said he'd run like hell and advised us to do the same.

Guns aren't safe things, so what's the point of a gun safety lesson?

[Cyrus]

Thank god you dont make the laws.

[shmoe]

Guns aren't safe things, so what's the point of a gun safety lesson?

To teach kids that they aren't safe.

You can go on about how you think guns should be banned, but in a country where they are not, gun safety/awareness lessons are a darn good idea. I know at least a couple of times when I was in grade school police officers came in to talk to us about gun safety. It was not a lesson in how we should handle guns safely, mostly warnings to stay away from the things as well as a few gruesome tales of kids accidentally shooting their friends with guns they found in their uncles closest to let us know they aren't toys.

[Moonbear]

To teach kids that they aren't safe.

You can go on about how you think guns should be banned, but in a country where they are not, gun safety/awareness lessons are a darn good idea. I know at least a couple of times when I was in grade school police officers came in to talk to us about gun safety. It was not a lesson in how we should handle guns safely, mostly warnings to stay away from the things as well as a few gruesome tales of kids accidentally shooting their friends with guns they found in their uncles closest to let us know they aren't toys.

Exactly, and that sort of safety lesson I support. What the officer in the clip was doing was something entirely different.

Sadly, it IS likely that at least one of those kids will come across a gun while playing, especially if they are living in a city. One of the people I went to grad school with has a husband who is a landscaper. When raking leaves and trimming shrubs around apartment buildings, he DID find a gun and box of ammo stashed in the shrubs. It was a pretty bad area of town known for drug dealing, and no doubt that was stashed there by someone who didn't want the cops to find it on them. It just seems pretty lucky that it wasn't some kid out playing who found it first.

So, yeah, kids don't need to learn to handle guns, but they do need to know that when they see one lying somewhere that a gun shouldn't be, they shouldn't touch it, and not to assume it's a toy!