How Does the Force Between Two Spheres Relate to Their Potential Energy?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the gravitational and electrostatic forces between two spheres, particularly how these forces relate to their potential energy. Participants explore the implications of Newton's laws and Gauss's law in this context, examining the concept of mass concentration at the centers of spheres.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant notes that the force on a sphere from another sphere can be treated as if the mass were concentrated at the center of the spheres.
  • Another participant agrees with this observation, emphasizing its significance in Newton's theory of gravitation.
  • A different participant mentions that Newton's derivation was complicated due to his lack of knowledge of Gauss's law.
  • Another reply reiterates that the relationship can be clearly demonstrated using spherical symmetry and Gauss's law.
  • One participant questions whether it is fair to attribute the complexity of Newton's work to his ignorance of Gauss, suggesting that Newton proved similar concepts within Euclidean geometry.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the validity of the force being treated as if mass is concentrated at the centers of the spheres. However, there is a disagreement regarding the implications of Newton's lack of knowledge about Gauss's law and how it affects the understanding of his work.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes references to different mathematical approaches and historical context, indicating that the understanding of these forces may depend on the application of various laws and geometrical frameworks.

lark
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Something I realized the other day - trying to figure out what the gravitational (or electrostatic) force would be between two spheres -
the force ON a sphere from another sphere, is the same as if the other sphere's mass were concentrated at its center.

So what is this force? It turns out that the force on a sphere FROM a point mass is the same as the force a sphere exerts ON a point mass - that is, the sphere is attracted to another point as if the sphere were a point itself! (from Newton's third law or whatever - action = reaction)

So the force between two spheres is the same as if the mass in the two spheres were concentrated at their centers.

In general if potential energy is 0 at infinity, the potential energy of object 1 from the gravitational field of object 2 is the same as the potential energy of object 2 in the grav. field of object 1 ...

laura
 
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lark said:
Something I realized the other day - trying to figure out what the gravitational (or electrostatic) force would be between two spheres -
the force ON a sphere from another sphere, is the same as if the other sphere's mass were concentrated at its center.

So what is this force? It turns out that the force on a sphere FROM a point mass is the same as the force a sphere exerts ON a point mass - that is, the sphere is attracted to another point as if the sphere were a point itself! (from Newton's third law or whatever - action = reaction)

So the force between two spheres is the same as if the mass in the two spheres were concentrated at their centers.


laura
Congratulations!
You have just shown one of the most important discoveries Sir Isaac Newton made with his theory of gravitation.
this was not meant ironic, it is indeed a pleasing and elegant result.:smile:
 
Poor Newton didn't know Gauss's law (He didn't even know Gauss), so he had to work that out in a very complicated derivation.
 
arildno said:
You have just shown one of the most important discoveries Sir Isaac Newton made with his theory of gravitation.

just want to reiterate to the OP what Meir said, that this can be shown pretty clearly using spherical symmetry and Gauss's Law.
 
Is it Newton's fault he didn't know Gauss, and essentially proved this, if I recall correctly, within the context of Euclidean geometry?
 

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