What is Force? | Force Definition

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the definition of force, exploring its conceptual and mathematical interpretations. Participants examine the relationship between force as a mathematical quantity (F=ma) and as a physical influence resulting from fundamental interactions in nature, including electromagnetic forces. The scope includes theoretical considerations and conceptual clarifications.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that force can be viewed as a mathematical shorthand for the quantity ma or dp/dt, suggesting it is a useful tool for explaining certain phenomena.
  • Others argue that force is an actual physical influence that causes acceleration, linked to the four fundamental interactions: strong nuclear, weak nuclear, gravitational, and electromagnetic forces.
  • A participant notes that both viewpoints regarding force are valid and asserts that neither is "more correct" than the other, emphasizing that force can be measured independently of the equation F=ma.
  • Another participant suggests that force is fundamentally the net result of electromagnetic forces acting on atoms, indicating that while F=ma is a useful approximation, it is a model of these underlying interactions.
  • Concerns are raised about the computational complexity of modeling electromagnetic forces at the atomic level to derive net force.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of force, with no consensus on which interpretation is more correct. Multiple competing perspectives remain regarding the definitions and implications of force.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights limitations in the definitions of force, including the dependence on mathematical models and the challenges of accurately representing complex interactions at the atomic level.

lets_resonate
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What is "force"?

Hello,

As far as I know, there are two ways to look at force:

1. A mathematical shorthand for the quantity [itex]ma[/itex] or [itex]\frac {dp}{dt}[/itex]. Someone got the bright idea that this particular quantity is useful in explaining a particular phenomenon in nature. "The heavier something is, and the faster I want to accelerate it, the more effort I will have to expend in order to push it. I will refer to this effort as 'force'."

2. Force is an actual, physical influence that causes something to accelerate. This influence can be readily explained by one of the four fundamental interactions in nature: the strong and weak nuclear force, gravitational force, and electromagnetic force. Hence, any discussion about force must necessarily involve one of these interactions.

Which viewpoint is the one that is considered more correct?
 
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Well... the first is content free, in that "F=ma" doesn't really say anything if you simply take it as the definition of "F."
 
lets_resonate said:
Hello,

As far as I know, there are two ways to look at force:

1. A mathematical shorthand for the quantity [itex]ma[/itex] or [itex]\frac {dp}{dt}[/itex]. Someone got the bright idea that this particular quantity is useful in explaining a particular phenomenon in nature. "The heavier something is, and the faster I want to accelerate it, the more effort I will have to expend in order to push it. I will refer to this effort as 'force'."

2. Force is an actual, physical influence that causes something to accelerate. This influence can be readily explained by one of the four fundamental interactions in nature: the strong and weak nuclear force, gravitational force, and electromagnetic force. Hence, any discussion about force must necessarily involve one of these interactions.

Which viewpoint is the one that is considered more correct?

They are both correct. Neither is "more correct" than the other.

Force is a concept that exists independently of F=ma and it can be measured independently as well. We could define a unit of force as a certain displacement of a particular spring, for example. Or we could define a unit of force as the "weight" of a certain object. We could then apply various numbers of units of those forces to different masses and measure their acceleration and conclude that F = ma.

AM
 
Force is technically the net result of the electromagnetic forces experienced by the billions of atoms in the objects in question. Therefore, the electromagnetic force is technically the correct definition of force, however we use approximations, such as F = ma to make the calculations much more palatable, and frankly reasonable for humans to solve. F = ma is at its heart a model of the electromagnetic interactions that we experience on a daily basis.

We could model the electromagnetic forces on each atom, and then sum them to find the net "force," however the computations involved are prohibitively expensive.
 

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