View Full Version : "Stargate SG1" Questions
Is anybody here a fan of the television sci-fi series Stargate SG-1? If so, maybe you can help me out with a few questions I have. I'm a casual fan and haven't seen all of the episodes. Most of these questions pertain to the way the stargates "work" in the show as discussed here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stargate_%28device%29#Operation
1. Why are six symbols (seven including the point of origin) used to determine a specific destination? This figure
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:StargateCoordinates.svg
tries to explain it: the destination is at the intersection point of the three lines that are drawn connecting each of three pairs of constellations for a total of six symbols. However, it seems from the diagram that once you have drawn two lines connecting two of the three pairs, those two lines intersect at a unique point, making the third line seem somewhat redundant. So why don't you need only FOUR symbols (five including point of origin)?
2. While we're on the subject, what is the advantage of this system over a more traditional 3D coordinate system e.g. spherical polar with the origin at the galactic centre? The only one I can think of off the top of my head is that a large number of destinations can be addressed using a finite number of universal symbols (namely, the 38 + 1 symbols that are carved onto a gate). However, what would be the problem with making an input device like a computer that enables you to enter the coordinates yourself onto a display? (So what if there are an infinite number of real numbers? There's no rule saying that they have to be carved onto the input device.)
3. Speaking of the finite number of universal symbols, that wikipedia article says that they are images of actual constellations, as viewed from Earth. Now, in the Stargate FILM, other stargates had an entirely different set of symbols, which makes sense, because if you look at the stars from some location other than Earth, you aren't going to see those constellations (which again calls into question their use as "reference locations"). However, in the TV series, it would seem that all gates have the same 38 symbols (the Earth constellations). Is this "geo-centric" system explained adequately on screen?
4. Speaking of the constellations, weren't the Stargates built by "The Ancients" tens of millions of years before humanity even existed? So why do the constellations look exactly like the modern ones agreed upon by the IAU? It seems unlikely that the Ancients would have independently come up with the same patterns in the sky, considering that different cultures on Earth have come up with different names and different ways of connecting/grouping the stars. Okay, you could argue that the Goa'uld redecorated the Stargates with more familiar symbols once they arrived on Earth. But revamping the gate network's addressing system seems like a lot of work, and is out of character for the Goa'uld, who prefer to appropriate and use technology, rather than to learn about it. For the sake of argument, say that they DID change the symbols. That still doesn't explain away this problem. Most of those constellations originated with the ancient Greeks. Now, some system lords DO have names corresponding to deities in Greek/Roman mythology afaik, suggesting that they did visit Earth and influence its populace. That having been said, it is my understanding that the only functioning stargate on Earth was entirely under the control of the System Lord Ra, during the time of the Ancient Egyptians. If so, why don't the symbols on the gate correspond to *Egyptian* star groupings, whatever those may have been?
zoobyshoe
Sep2-07, 08:13 PM
http://www.trekkers.se/foto/Lon_344_shatner.jpg
"Get a Life!"
Hey man, this is general discussion. It's just for fun. As I stated in my OP, which you probably didn't read, I am a *casual* fan. I started watching the show, and these questions came to my mind naturally. I thought I'd find out whether anyone had seen more of the show than I had, and had come across a plausible explanation for some of these issues. Granted, this is PF (i.e. there are no geeks here... :rolleyes:), but I didn't expect such a negative reception. I suppose I could have sought out a forum about SG1, but quite frankly I'm not going to because...I have a life. I don't plan to sit around all day discussing the TV series. It was just these questions that came to mind, and that I thought to share with the community here.
Gokul43201
Sep3-07, 01:13 AM
I think Zoob was playing with you ... in a "Trekkies rule; Gaters suck!" kind of way.
Math Is Hard
Sep3-07, 01:29 AM
There's nothing wrong with Star Trek or Stargate. It's the Dr. Who fans who should get a life.
*runs and hides*
I think Zoob was playing with you ... in a "Trekkies rule; Gaters suck!" kind of way.
Fair enough. I'm not looking to kick up a fuss. I just wanted a chance to explain where I'm coming from. I'm not so sure I buy into your, "lighten up! Zoob was just jerking your chain" response. I mean, it doesn't matter how good-natured his joke was *intended* to be, but what effect it actually had. How would you feel if you started a thread earnestly, only to receive an off the cuff and dismissive response, esp. one that implied you were as bad as a rabid trekkie, just because you wanted to discuss science fiction? As it happens, I have been a Star Trek fan for a very long time, whereas I am only just getting into Stargate. Believe it or not, I can sympathize with Shatner's sentiment, if not his attitude, when he made that remark. Those Trek fans who are obsessed to the point of forgoing rational thought or losing the ability to distinguish fiction from reality -- they tend to give the rest of the fans a bad name. Even so, based on my explanation, I would hope that Zoobyshoe would understand that humour is a relative thing, and that his post *could* have been received as insulting, even hurtful. But you know what? I *will* lighten up and I *will* give him the benefit of the doubt. I just wanted to state for the record that I was a bit irked. Irked in a "c'mon, that's the first response I get?" sort of way. I mean, it didn't really contribute anything to the discussion. I'm sure other people can sympathize with that sentiment, esp. the moderators who are nazi-like about off topic posts.
Anyway, no hard feelings. Feel free to discuss the original topic if you wish!
Heh...I'm a Stargate fan. Believe it or not, I didn't know that SG-1 even existed until September 06. After seeing the first episode, I concluded that it was the greatest thing since sliced bread, and proceeded to watch every episode of SG-1 and Atlantis (without any detriment to my grades!).
Actually, last year I was discussing this with other members of my undergraduate physics club. We concluded that that the constellations defined planes, and that the center of each plane must define a unique point in space. As to the drifting of stars in space, I'm not familiar enough with cosmology to say for certain. But I'm fairly certain that 150 million years wouldn't cause a significant enough change in the positions of stars that the constellations wouldn't still be similar. In fact, they addressed this issue in the first episode of SG-1. Apparently the reason the earth Stargate could only go to Abydos is because it was the closest planet to earth with a Stargate and that all the other planets had drifted too far away. They in fact used a map in the pyramid (i.e. Ra's landing pad) to recalibrate the earth Stargate to account for the shift in the planets' motion. Other Stargates, which possessed dialing devices built by the Ancients, had made this adjustment automatically, whereas Air Force's dialing computer had to be manually reprogrammed.
Don't worry, I do know the difference between Stargate and reality!
After seeing the first episode, I concluded that it was the greatest thing since sliced bread, and proceeded to watch every episode of SG-1 and Atlantis (without any detriment to my grades!).
How did you achieve this?!
Actually, last year I was discussing this with other members of my undergraduate physics club. We concluded that that the constellations defined planes, and that the center of each plane must define a unique point in space.
Interesting, and it would explain the need for six symbols. I'm not sure how a constellation could "define a plane" though...
As to the drifting of stars in space, I'm not familiar enough with cosmology to say for certain. But I'm fairly certain that 150 million years wouldn't cause a significant enough change in the positions of stars that the constellations wouldn't still be similar. In fact, they addressed this issue in the first episode of SG-1. Apparently the reason the earth Stargate could only go to Abydos is because it was the closest planet to earth with a Stargate and that all the other planets had drifted too far away. They in fact used a map in the pyramid (i.e. Ra's landing pad) to recalibrate the earth Stargate to account for the shift in the planets' motion. Other Stargates, which possessed dialing devices built by the Ancients, had made this adjustment automatically, whereas Air Force's dialing computer had to be manually reprogrammed.
Good point. I seem to remember that vaguely (I think I have seen the pilot episode). I was not referring to actual changes in the constellations due to shifts in relative positions of the stars though. I was referring to the fact that the Ancients would probably assign different groupings to the same stars (i.e., looking at the same sky, it seems like too much of a coincidence that they would make up exactly the same constellations as humans did much later.) They would make different constellations out of the same stars. So why would the symbols on the stargate correspond to human-made constellations?
They would make different constellations out of the same stars. So why would the symbols on the stargate correspond to human-made constellations?
It's possible that we got our constellations out of what they saw. If you noticed, a ton of mythology is discussed in SG1 and seems to all go back to some alien or another. So I suppose it's possible that the ancients found those, then somehow were shown to humans at some point or another.
Constellations aren't really a special group of stars. It is just a picture made up to correspond to what certain stars look like from earth. Looking at the same area from another part of the galaxy or universe, you would no longer see these stars as a similar group. The perspective would be completely different. They only appear as a group from our perspective. From another location the same stars may have no formation at all.
With that said, why would earth observed "constellations" be on stargates on other worlds? This makes absolutely no sense, especially since the stargates are an alien technology.
Moonbear
Sep3-07, 06:47 PM
I used to watch the show about 4 or 5 years ago, but NEVER even considered questioning any of that stuff. I just chalk it up to being TV fiction type stuff where you're not supposed to think about things too hard or it stops being fun.
There's nothing wrong with Star Trek or Stargate. It's the Dr. Who fans who should get a life.
*runs and hides*
I hope you're still hiding over there, MIH! Dr. Who is brilliant!!
Constellations aren't really a special group of stars. It is just a picture made up to correspond to what certain stars look like from earth. Looking at the same area from another part of the galaxy or universe, you would no longer see these stars as a similar group. The perspective would be completely different. They only appear as a group from our perspective. From another location the same stars may have no formation at all.
With that said, why would earth observed "constellations" be on stargates on other worlds? This makes absolutely no sense, especially since the stargates are an alien technology.
According to Wikipedia, the Earth was the capital of the ancients' empire... or at least one of their most important planets, and home of the first stargate.
That said, the glyphs only vaguely seem to resemble their corresponding constellation...
According to Wikipedia, the Earth was the capital of the ancients' empire... or at least one of their most important planets, and home of the first stargate.
That said, the glyphs only vaguely seem to resemble their corresponding constellation...Hmmm, from the movie, it was an alien that was dying and he came to earth and took over the body of a young Egyptian boy. He was a lone alien, no other of his kind. It didn't get into any other history. I guess they had to flesh it out more for the tv series.
The Goa'uld (the race of which Ra was a part) were not the creators of the stargates; they simply knew how to use them.
Yeah, what Evo said in post #10 is what I was trying to say in my 3rd question of the OP. Did they adequately address this "geo-centric" system in the show? Maybe not...
Yeah Hurkyl, that's a good point about some of the glyphs not looking much like the constellations they are supposed to correspond to. But the one for Orion looks just like Orion.
Hmmm, from the movie, it was an alien that was dying and he came to earth and took over the body of a young Egyptian boy. He was a lone alien, no other of his kind. It didn't get into any other history. I guess they had to flesh it out more for the tv series.
This is one of the discrepancies between the show and the movie. In the show, it is pointed out that Ra was not the last of his race as Dr. Jackson originally thought. There are severally more discrepancies as well, but either way, great movie and great show.
There's nothing wrong with Star Trek or Stargate. It's the Dr. Who fans who should get a life.
*runs and hides*
:devil: WHAT DID YOU SAY MIH!!!! You can't hide forever....Us Dr. Who fans will eventually land our TARDIS's in your hiding spot!
Dr. Who is brilliant!!
Amen!
With that said, why would earth observed "constellations" be on stargates on other worlds? This makes absolutely no sense, especially since the stargates are an alien technology.
Maybe the ancients had a lot to do with earth way long ago.
With that said, why would earth observed "constellations" be on stargates on other worlds? This makes absolutely no sense, especially since the stargates are an alien technology.
I thought the symbols were different on every gate. Wasn't a whole subplot in the movie based around Dr. Jackson trying to find the plate with the symbols for the Stargate on Abydos (the planet in the movie)?
It wasn't until they found the symbol database on Abydos that they were able to easily gate from world to world like they do in the show.
I thought the symbols were different on every gate. Wasn't a whole subplot in the movie based around Dr. Jackson trying to find the plate with the symbols for the Stargate on Abydos (the planet in the movie)?
It wasn't until they found the symbol database on Abydos that they were able to easily gate from world to world like they do in the show.It was the symbol for earth that was missing. Of course the earth symbol wasn't on the stargate on earth and he needed to know what the symbol was to return. In the movie there wasn't a symbol database, it was a story written on a wall that showed the earth symbol.
rewebster
Sep4-07, 11:06 AM
I thought it was the symbol for Abydos (when the boy drew it on the cave wall) that was missing.
I thought it was the symbol for Abydos (when the boy drew it on the cave wall) that was missing.
Yes, I believe this is correct. They needed the point of origin.....so the symbol must have been the Abydos symbol.
Sorry guys, in the movie, it was the symbol for "earth's point of origin" that he needed to get them home. Daniel Jackson deduces the point of origin of Earth is a pyramid with the sun directly above it.Go back and watch the movie.
http://www.gateworld.net/omnipedia/technology/links/pointoforigin.shtml
And if I'm wrong this message will disappear without a trace.
rewebster
Sep4-07, 01:26 PM
"Later, Ska'ara draws a picture of the people's victory against Ra, which depicts three moons over a pyramid. Jackson realizes the picture represents the seventh symbol needed to reactivate the Stargate. "
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stargate_%28film%29
-----------------------------
I forgot:
Sorry guys, and sorry doll(s)
"Later, Ska'ara draws a picture of the people's victory against Ra, which depicts three moons over a pyramid. Jackson realizes the picture represents the seventh symbol needed to reactivate the Stargate. "
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stargate_%28film%29
-----------------------------
I forgot:
and sorry doll(s)The article also states After Jackson reveals he can’t dial home without the coordinates for Earth,
There seems to be a discrepancy here. It was, in fact, the symbol for earth that he needed. This is one of my all time favorite movies. I guess I'll have to watch it again, because I remember the earth symbol as critical as the wiki article states.
There seems to be a discrepancy here. It was, in fact, the symbol for earth that he needed. This is one of my all time favorite movies. I guess I'll have to watch it again, because I remember the earth symbol as critical as the wiki article states.
The first six symbols are the address for earth. He eventually found those on a plate and was still missing the Abydos point of origin. The seventh symbol is the point of origin for the planet you are currently on.
The first six symbols are the address for earth. He eventually found those on a plate and was still missing the Abydos point of origin. The seventh symbol is the point of origin for the planet you are currently on.Maybe in the tv show, but not in the movie. There was no "plate" in the movie.
This is from the movie.
O'Neil, after showing Kasuf's son Skaara his cigarette lighter, finds Jackson and Sha'uri in a hidden cave. Jackson has identified the native language as Egyptian; he was unable to speak to them before because the pronunciation had been lost on Earth. Along the walls of the cave are, aside from Earth's point of origin symbol, hieroglyphics which describe much information about the Stargate.
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/1301/sg_epi/sg_s.html
We may be talking about the same thing, he had to find information on both the Earth and Abydos. One article says he needed to find the earth coordinates to get back to earth and the Abydos coordinates to activate the stargate.
I was going to watch the movie tonight but the case is empty, some child of mine has "borrowed" it.
Maybe in the tv show, but not in the movie. There was no "plate" in the movie.
I swear I remember in the movie, Daniel found a plate with the first six symbols on it, but the seventh was cracked off and worn away. He found it in the cave Shaure showed him with the story of Ra painted on the wall. The plate Daniel found in the show had thousands of gate addresses. The one he found in the movie was just for Earth. It was how he figured out how to go back. I'm sure of it.
O'Neil, after showing Kasuf's son Skaara his cigarette lighter, finds Jackson and Sha'uri in a hidden cave. Jackson has identified the native language as Egyptian; he was unable to speak to them before because the pronunciation had been lost on Earth. Along the walls of the cave are, aside from Earth's point of origin symbol, hieroglyphics which describe much information about the Stargate.
For some reason, I don't remember it happening this way. I know I remember Skaara drawing the Abydos point of Origin symbol on a wall and Jackson saying something along the lines of, "That's it! That's the symbol for this planet."
Sigh...I need to go watch the movie again now! Thanks for giving me an excuse to not do work, Evo!:biggrin:
rewebster
Sep5-07, 07:59 AM
OK---someone had to watch the movie last night......
OK---someone had to watch the movie last night......
Unfortunately, I never got around to it.:frown:
Stupid work and responsibility!:devil:
Alkatran
Sep6-07, 02:03 PM
As soon as I heard their crazy explanations, I just threw that out and assumed every stargate was arbitrarily assigned an address (like a phone number) which happened to be based on location. The whole "point of origin" thing is to stop people from using it (think about it: each gate only has ONE 'point of origin' slot. That makes no sense.).
Also, you could just accept that it's a TV show. At least they don't use the deflector to solve everything.
Argentum Vulpes
Sep7-07, 01:10 PM
... Also, you could just accept that it's a TV show. At least they don't use the deflector to solve everything.
Oh come on they ust the phasors and transporters every so often (for flavor I'm shure).
Also, you could just accept that it's a TV show.
This is just crazy talk!
You guys could be right about the missing symbol being Abydos.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygWhH_kP8PQ
more
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCHJZsETztI&mode=related&search=
CaptainBarbosa
Sep8-07, 12:32 AM
I love Stargate, so much that I even made a 3D computer model of the gate.:D
The reason I think they went to one set of symbols for the TV series is to avoid having to discover the local coordinates for earth on EVERY single planet they go to.
rewebster
Sep8-07, 09:53 AM
Some 'symbols' seem to be representations of constellations, others of the essence of the planet (one moon/sun over the 'pyramid' for earth, three over Abydos, etc)---that's one funny thing I've thought about the symbols---if it takes six to fix a planet---and each one six actually represents another planet (?) maybe that could be how? far away--hmmm-----oh, well---I just keep telling myself, "it's only a movie, it's only a movie, ..."
--------------------
and---NICE image, there, captain! (arrgg!)
I love Stargate, so much that I even made a 3D computer model of the gate.:D
The reason I think they went to one set of symbols for the TV series is to avoid having to discover the local coordinates for earth on EVERY single planet they go to.
There are actually several differences between the movie and the shows, not just this one discrepancy in gate workings. One obvious one is the personality of Kurt Russel's O'Neil and Richard Dean Anderson's O'Neill. Though, this one is easily explained by the fact that O'Neil was depressed at the time the movie took place. If your bored, this Wiki Article has a list of a lot of the differences:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Differences_between_Stargate_and_Stargate_SG-1
CaptainBarbosa
Sep8-07, 10:12 PM
Yeah, that O'neil only had 1 'L'. No sense of humor. :D
Kudos if you just got that.;)
Yeah, that O'neil only had 1 'L'. No sense of humor. :D
Kudos if you just got that.;)
That's O'Neill....TWO L's! (Is it sad that I remember this quote?)
Stargate the MOVIE is on the Sci-Fi channel at 7pm central time. We can settle this once and for all. If I'm the only watching, I win by default. :devil:
rewebster
Jan22-08, 06:32 PM
Stargate the MOVIE is on the Sci-Fi channel at 7pm central time. We can settle this once and for all. If I'm the only watching, I win by default. :devil:
That sounds like a bet----and if I win?
(or if, if you win?)
That sounds like a bet----and if I win?
(or if, if you win?)<spit> You watchin' sonny?
We're lookin' fer the return sign needed to get back to earth and where he found it?
rewebster
Jan22-08, 06:37 PM
<double-spit> I don't get the scifi channel <plus a groin scratch>
Harks up a big chunk of, well nevermind what it is.
So, wut yer saying, is that Evo's gunna win this bet. <hack> (nails spitoon)
rewebster
Jan22-08, 06:51 PM
between the <watever she hackin' up and the half o' bottle of rye> lines, she is a thinkin' she got the rope around this one---and she gonna be cryin' by when the night's over in 'er pillow
We're lookin' fer the return sign needed to get back to earth and where he found it?
--the writing's on the wall by the young 'un----ya' yung whip
Hmpfff. Well, anyone can join the contest, s'long as they post before the scene. <spit>
rewebster
Jan22-08, 06:59 PM
she's already startin' ta tremble
I have my note pad and pencil. :devil:
rewebster
Jan22-08, 07:05 PM
can ya stay awake until about 8:30?
are you going to draw a circle with the pencil around the symbol on the TV screen when the boy writes the symbol on the wall?---(the note pad doesn't make good tissue to cry into)
Rat Bastages, TV guide wasn't correct, the movie started at 6:30, but I tuned in just before they went through the stargate, but I wanted to see the symbols on the earth side first.
Ivan Seeking
Jan22-08, 07:33 PM
FYI, from our old friend selfAdjoint:
While I'm on SG1 I want to express one beef: they show the mouth of a wormhole (their signature image) as a disk. It would be a sphere, like one of those garden reflecting spheres. Pictures in pop science show a disk because they have suppressed one dimension to make a clear image.
http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?p=439691#post439691
The seventh sign appears to be Abados.
rewebster
Jan23-08, 07:37 AM
The seventh sign appears to be Abados.
yes, and..?
Averagesupernova
Jan23-08, 08:10 PM
There's nothing wrong with Star Trek or Stargate. It's the Dr. Who fans who should get a life.
*runs and hides*
Billie Piper is HOT!!!!!!!!!!!
awsed24
Jun25-09, 05:45 PM
There's nothing wrong with Star Trek or Stargate. It's the Dr. Who fans who should get a life.
*runs and hides*
You'd better hide! Star trek, stargate, and dr who r all pro!
awsed24
Jun25-09, 05:50 PM
Hmmm, from the movie, it was an alien that was dying and he came to earth and took over the body of a young Egyptian boy. He was a lone alien, no other of his kind. It didn't get into any other history. I guess they had to flesh it out more for the tv series.
Ra WAS the last of his race! remember at the end when the bomb went off? he wasnt a goa'uld, he was a weird alien that looked a lot like an asgard.
Blenton
Jun25-09, 10:34 PM
Uh yeah he was goa'uld, but controlling an Asgard. Still I think most of the stuff in the movie are non canon.
awsed24
Jun25-09, 10:55 PM
Uh yeah he was goa'uld, but controlling an Asgard. Still I think most of the stuff in the movie are non canon.
he wasnt a goa'uld! goa'uld cant have two hosts at once! his human body disintigrated and you saw an asgard looking thing with sharp teeth. there was no little snake jumping from the human body to an asgard (that would've had to appeared out of nowhere)!
cepheid
Jun25-09, 11:19 PM
he wasnt a goa'uld! goa'uld cant have two hosts at once! his human body disintigrated and you saw an asgard looking thing with sharp teeth. there was no little snake jumping from the human body to an asgard (that would've had to appeared out of nowhere)!
What are you getting all excited about? You are right. He was not a Goa'uld, because the Goa'uld had not been invented yet and had nothing to do with this movie whatsoever (edit: and neither did the Asgard). They were created by the creators of the television show Stargate SG-1 which came well after the movie Stargate. I think the television show, although being inspired from the movie, was not meant to be a direct continuation of the storyline in the movie (because the writers felt free both to contradict its events and to diverge from it as they saw fit).
Blenton probably just didn't know that. That is no reason to freak out on him though. What I want to know is, why have you resurrected a thread that has been dead for more than a year? Also, why is your post count 0 even though you have posted three times in this thread alone? Have you been banned or something?
awsed24
Jun25-09, 11:36 PM
Srry didn't notice the date.
Srry about getting excited too.
My post count is probably 0 cuz I just subscribed.
NeoDevin
Jun26-09, 01:16 AM
Also, why is your post count 0 even though you have posted three times in this thread alone?
His post count is zero because posts in GD don't count towards that.
Blenton
Jun26-09, 01:38 AM
Despite the lack of a head-on attack, many skirmishes and bloody battles raged on for several centuries and, somehow, Ra found himself leaving his Unas host in order to take the body of the Asgard Famrir. However, the Asgard physiology began to reject Ra. Worse, in 9,177 BC, he was injured in a battle with the Asgard. Fleeing his Asgard persuers, Ra found a lush world in an alien system; Earth.
Within the movie, when Ra became angry the outline of his original alien humanoid form could be seen within the host. This portion is contradicted by Stargate SG-1, where the true Goa'uld is a serpent-like creature which occupies the brain stem in order to control the host. The contradiction is not addressed in the series, but assumed by many fans to simply be artistic license.
There.
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