Why does everything achieves to reach equilibrium?

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    Equilibrium
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of equilibrium in physical systems, exploring why systems tend to reach states of minimum total energy and the implications of entropy. Participants delve into theoretical aspects, questioning the underlying reasons for these phenomena.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions why everything seems to move towards equilibrium, suggesting it may involve a release from compression.
  • Several participants assert that systems in nature tend to reach states of minimum total energy, defining equilibrium as such a state.
  • Another participant challenges the explanation by noting that energy is conserved, implying that if one system decreases its energy, another must increase, raising questions about the nature of this process.
  • Concerns are expressed regarding whether the explanation of systems reaching minimum energy truly addresses the "why" behind this tendency.
  • One participant references the second law of thermodynamics, stating that entropy tends to increase and linking it to the number of accessible states in a system.
  • Another participant notes that true equilibrium may not exist, suggesting that reference frames are necessary to approach the concept.
  • Questions are raised about the nature of entropy itself and its relationship to the universe and time.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that systems tend to reach states of minimum energy, but there is no consensus on the reasons behind this tendency or the nature of equilibrium and entropy. Multiple competing views remain regarding the explanations offered.

Contextual Notes

Some discussions touch on the limitations of mainstream physics in explaining "why" systems behave as they do, focusing instead on descriptive aspects. There are unresolved questions about the definitions and implications of entropy and equilibrium.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to those exploring thermodynamics, the nature of equilibrium, and the philosophical implications of energy conservation and entropy in physical systems.

Skhandelwal
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I don't get this...Why does everything tries to move to settle equilibrium? I thought, to move, you need energy. Or is it like everything is compressed and setting up equilibrium is bassically being released from the compression?

Thx.
 
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Systems in nature like to reach states of minimum total energy. This thing we call equilibrium is the name for a state of minimum energy.

EDIT: I just realized that I was posting in another thread with both of you. Deja Vu!:smile:
 
Last edited:
G01 said:
Systems in nature like to reach states of minimum total energy. This thing we call equilibrium is the name for a state of minimum energy.

GO1 saves the day again! yea it is the same theroy
 
G01 said:
Systems in nature like to reach states of minimum total energy. This thing we call equilibrium is the name for a state of minimum energy.

OK... but energy is convserved, yes? So if one system reaches a state of miimum total energy, some other system increases its energy...

I know what you mean, GO1 - but I'm just feeling in a nit-picking mood as to whether this "explains" why things are the way they are.

Most mainstream physics doesn't even attempt to explain "why" - it stops at describing "what".
 
G01 said:
Systems in nature like to reach states of minimum total energy. This thing we call equilibrium is the name for a state of minimum energy.

EDIT: I just realized that I was posting in another thread with both of you. Deja Vu!:smile:

But that doesn't say WHY the "like to reach states of minimum total energy"!

Look at the definition of "equilibrium" (of any kind). When something is in equilibrium, it, by definition, stays there. If it is not in equilibrium, it keeps "moving". Sooner or later it will, perhaps entirely by chance, hit an equilibrium and stay there. Eventually, everything will have stumbled upon an equilibrium.
 
AlephZero said:
OK... but energy is convserved, yes? So if one system reaches a state of miimum total energy, some other system increases its energy...

I know what you mean, GO1 - but I'm just feeling in a nit-picking mood as to whether this "explains" why things are the way they are.

Most mainstream physics doesn't even attempt to explain "why" - it stops at describing "what".

HallsofIvy said:
But that doesn't say WHY the "like to reach states of minimum total energy"!

Look at the definition of "equilibrium" (of any kind). When something is in equilibrium, it, by definition, stays there. If it is not in equilibrium, it keeps "moving". Sooner or later it will, perhaps entirely by chance, hit an equilibrium and stay there. Eventually, everything will have stumbled upon an equilibrium.

OK, what I said doesn't describe why systems tend to equilibrium, but I felt like trying anyway! I guess should have quit while I was on top.:smile:
 
According to the second law of thermodynamics, entropy (or disorder) tends to increase overall. In statistical thermodynamics, entropy is shown proportional to the logarithm of accessible states of the system. (By a particular state one might mean one of all possible arrangements of quantum numbers comprising a system at a given time.) These first two sentences are equivalent to saying that the number of states available in a system tends to increase.

If we had continually exact knowledge of a system, the entropy measured might appear not to change. However, quantum mechanics tells us that to participate in a system disturbs a system, generating randomness. It is a lot easier to view salt and pepper segregated in their respective shakers than separate them, mixed in a pile, by observation.
 
but, nothing that I know of is in 'true equilibrium'---you have to go into 'reference frames' to get close, I believe.
 
But why does the entropy increase? And what is entropy?(is it state of universe(increasing meaning it is expanding) and time?)
 
  • #10
Skhandelwal said:
But why does the entropy increase? And what is entropy?(is it state of universe(increasing meaning it is expanding) and time?)

Have you looked around the web for some explanations yet?

eg

http://www.entropylaw.com/
 

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