Can Thermal Imagers See Through Aluminised Cloaks?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the effectiveness of aluminised cloaks in rendering individuals invisible to thermal imagers, specifically FLIR cameras. Participants explore the interaction between infrared radiation, body heat, and the reflective properties of materials, considering both theoretical implications and practical applications.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest that an aluminised cloak could initially reflect infrared radiation back towards the wearer, potentially making them less visible at first.
  • Others argue that over time, the cloak would heat up to body temperature, making the wearer visible again.
  • There is a discussion about whether all surfaces at a given temperature are equally effective radiators, with some noting that materials like aluminum may have lower emissivity compared to skin.
  • One participant mentions that aluminised mylar is likely to be highly reflective, which could result in the wearer reflecting the colder environment, thus appearing as an anomaly on thermal detectors.
  • Another point raised is that good absorbers are also good radiators, while good reflectors are poor at both, suggesting that aluminum may not radiate effectively against a cold background.
  • Concerns are expressed about the visibility of openings in the cloak for seeing and breathing, which could compromise its effectiveness.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the effectiveness of aluminised cloaks against thermal imagers, with multiple competing views and uncertainties remaining regarding the properties of materials and their interaction with infrared radiation.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference the concept of emissivity and its variability among different materials, noting that polished metals like aluminum have lower emissivity compared to organic materials. The discussion also highlights the influence of environmental conditions on thermal imaging.

Dirk Bruere at NeoPax
Just been looking at a video of a bunch of people at night, showing up
glowing white, through FLIR imager. Would wearing an aluminised cloak
make one invisible to it? In other words, would the IR sensor see the
heat emitted from the cloak (at body temp) or the reflection off the
cloak of the cooler surroundings?

--
Dirk

http://www.transcendence.me.uk/ - Transcendence UK
Remote Viewing classes in London
 
Last edited by a moderator:
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In article <5ovascFos2ptU1@mid.individual.net>, Dirk Bruere at NeoPax
<dirk.bruere@gmail.com> writes:

> Just been looking at a video of a bunch of people at night, showing up
> glowing white, through FLIR imager. Would wearing an aluminised cloak
> make one invisible to it? In other words, would the IR sensor see the
> heat emitted from the cloak (at body temp) or the reflection off the
> cloak of the cooler surroundings?[/color]

I'm assuming you're talking about an infrared-sensitive camera. IR is
simply light at a longer wavelength. If we see something, then either
it is reflecting the radiation (normally the case for visible light, at
least where people are concerned) or emitting it (normally the case for
infrared, at least where people are concerned). Think about "reflection
off the cloak of the cooler surroundings" in visual terms, i.e.
reflection from DARKER surroundings. Obviously, if something is visible
and is surrounded by darkness, this doesn't make it less visible (in
practice, it makes it more visible due to greater contrast). The same
would apply in infrared, i.e. cool or dark surroundings would not make
something invisible that is otherwise visible.

If you wear an aluminised cloak, at first it will reflect your IR
radiation back towards your body, making you invisible to some extent,
at least at first. However, with time it will probably heat up to the
same temperature as your body, and you will become visible again.

Of course, if there are other IR sources nearby, then your cloak could
reflect the radiation into the camera, rendering you visible.
 
where the foil touches your skin it will conduct the heat and radiate. you
need to insulate your body from the outer surface, just be warned that doing
it properly results in all the body heat being retained inside the suit so
it gets hotter and hotter the longer you wear it."Dirk Bruere at NeoPax" <dirk.bruere@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:5ovascFos2ptU1@mid.individual.net...
> Just been looking at a video of a bunch of people at night, showing up
> glowing white, through FLIR imager. Would wearing an aluminised cloak make
> one invisible to it? In other words, would the IR sensor see the heat
> emitted from the cloak (at body temp) or the reflection off the cloak of
> the cooler surroundings?
>
> --
> Dirk
>
> http://www.transcendence.me.uk/ - Transcendence UK
> Remote Viewing classes in London
>[/color]
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote:
> In article <5ovascFos2ptU1@mid.individual.net>, Dirk Bruere at NeoPax
> <dirk.bruere@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> Just been looking at a video of a bunch of people at night, showing up
>> glowing white, through FLIR imager. Would wearing an aluminised cloak
>> make one invisible to it? In other words, would the IR sensor see the
>> heat emitted from the cloak (at body temp) or the reflection off the
>> cloak of the cooler surroundings?[/color]
>
> I'm assuming you're talking about an infrared-sensitive camera. IR is
> simply light at a longer wavelength. If we see something, then either
> it is reflecting the radiation (normally the case for visible light, at
> least where people are concerned) or emitting it (normally the case for
> infrared, at least where people are concerned). Think about "reflection
> off the cloak of the cooler surroundings" in visual terms, i.e.
> reflection from DARKER surroundings. Obviously, if something is visible
> and is surrounded by darkness, this doesn't make it less visible (in
> practice, it makes it more visible due to greater contrast). The same
> would apply in infrared, i.e. cool or dark surroundings would not make
> something invisible that is otherwise visible.
>
> If you wear an aluminised cloak, at first it will reflect your IR
> radiation back towards your body, making you invisible to some extent,
> at least at first. However, with time it will probably heat up to the
> same temperature as your body, and you will become visible again.
>
> Of course, if there are other IR sources nearby, then your cloak could
> reflect the radiation into the camera, rendering you visible.
>[/color]

Then let me rephrase the question:
Are all surfaces and materials at a given temperature equally good
radiators? Is Al foil at 37 degC as bright as skin at 37 degC to a
thermal imager?

--
Dirk

http://www.transcendence.me.uk/ - Transcendence UK
Remote Viewing classes in London
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Dirk Bruere at NeoPax wrote:
> Just been looking at a video of a bunch of people at night, showing up
> glowing white, through FLIR imager. Would wearing an aluminised cloak
> make one invisible to it? In other words, would the IR sensor see the
> heat emitted from the cloak (at body temp) or the reflection off the
> cloak of the cooler surroundings?[/color]

Probably not. I couldn't find a measured reflectivity of aluminzed
mylar between 8-12 microns, but let's assume it's highly reflective.
This document had some data:

http://sti.srs.gov/fulltext/ms2000921/ms2000921.html

The wearer will reflect the environment- including the cold sky (-50 C).
See Figure 4 in the above document. This will still register as an
anomaly on the IR detector.

Plus, if one is wearing a reflective cloak, unless they don't need to
see where they are going, they will need holes to see and breathe, both
of which will be easily visible unless additional measures are taken to
cloak the leaks (as is done on the B2 stealth bomber)

--
Andrew Resnick, Ph.D.
Department of Physiology and Biophysics
Case Western Reserve University
 
Dirk Bruere at NeoPax said:
Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote:Then let me rephrase the question:
Are all surfaces and materials at a given temperature equally good
radiators? Is Al foil at 37 degC as bright as skin at 37 degC to a
thermal imager?
The property you are asking about is called emissivity, and tables are readily available on the web. Most natural substances have e = 0.9 to 0.98, including cloth, skin, dirt, snow and ice. The surfaces of lakes and the ocean are much lower, and the lowest e's are for polished metal surfaces (in the range of 0.05, if I remember). Aluminized mylar depends. The aluminized side is probably low if it is new and not overcoated, but the plastic side has a high e just like all organic materials. If you are shiny side in, then much body heat will be reflected but the film will be warm due to the air (you know how hot you get inside of a non-breathable raincoat) so the plastic side should radiate at body temp. Al side out will radiate less.
 
On Nov 3, 7:23 am, Dirk Bruere at NeoPax <dirk.bru...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Then let me rephrase the question:
> Are all surfaces and materials at a given temperature equally good
> radiators? Is Al foil at 37 degC as bright as skin at 37 degC to a
> thermal imager?[/color]

Good absorbers are good radiators, while good reflectors are terrible
for both absorbing and radiating. Rule of thumb.

>From playing with FLIR cameras, my experience is that aluminum[/color]
usually looks much darker than the outdoor surroundings, since it's
reflecting the cold sky or at least the distant landscape. If an
aluminum
cloak was warmed up to 40C, I don't know if it would radiate enough
to offset the 'cold' environment reflections. The camera might see
a black object moving against the background rather than a white
object.

To become "invisible" to ground-based cameras you'd do the same as
you
do for visible light: hide behind a large mirror which is motionless,
vertical,
and reflects the horizon. But for 10u, a matte finish on aluminum
looks
like a highly polished mirror. So any piece of sheet metal would
probably
work. Bend it into a cylinder and hide within.
 
billb@eskimo.com wrote:
> On Nov 3, 7:23 am, Dirk Bruere at NeoPax <dirk.bru...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>> Then let me rephrase the question:
>> Are all surfaces and materials at a given temperature equally good
>> radiators? Is Al foil at 37 degC as bright as skin at 37 degC to a
>> thermal imager?[/color]
>
> Good absorbers are good radiators, while good reflectors are terrible
> for both absorbing and radiating. Rule of thumb.
>
>>From playing with FLIR cameras, my experience is that aluminum[/color]
> usually looks much darker than the outdoor surroundings, since it's
> reflecting the cold sky or at least the distant landscape. If an
> aluminum
> cloak was warmed up to 40C, I don't know if it would radiate enough
> to offset the 'cold' environment reflections. The camera might see
> a black object moving against the background rather than a white
> object.
>
> To become "invisible" to ground-based cameras you'd do the same as
> you
> do for visible light: hide behind a large mirror which is motionless,
> vertical,
> and reflects the horizon. But for 10u, a matte finish on aluminum
> looks
> like a highly polished mirror. So any piece of sheet metal would
> probably
> work. Bend it into a cylinder and hide within.[/color]

The question arose from a video I was looking at of four guys at night
being blown away by a 30mm cannot from an AC130 at an estimated range of
some 3km.
I suppose I could post a URL to it if anyone is interested, but it's
pretty graphic. Anyway, they showed up against the ground and nearby
buildings as bright white on black.
I was wondering if they would have been so visible had they been wearing
one of those popart aluminised raincoats that is almost cloaklike with a
hood.

Anyway, it might be an interesting experiment for your site if you can
borrow a thermal imager and such a raincoat and view it from various angles.

--
Dirk

http://www.transcendence.me.uk/ - Transcendence UK
Remote Viewing classes in London
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Is in not also true one could use a laser based light source operating in the same wavelength region as the thermal imager to illuminate and increase the contrast of the individuals trying to cloak themselves.
 

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