Anyone else living paycheck to paycheck?

[gravenewworld]

$17.26 left in bank account. Can't wait to get paid on Fri. Oh wait that's right, I'll be broke again as soon as I get paid.


$1160

-$433 rent
-$135 student loan
-$125 heating
-$65 cable/internet
-$55 electricity
-$125 car insurance
-$30 water
-$50 phone
--------------------------------

Hey look at that, that leaves me with $145 for the next two weeks for gas and food.
Guess I will be eating a lot of Ramen.

LOL and I thought a $50 K year income was a "livable" income for a single person.

[Cyrus]

$1160/month adds up to 13k a year.

You should get around 2.5k per month after taxes at 50k. Where is the rest of your money going?

[gravenewworld]

$1160/month adds up to 13k a year.

You should get around 2.5k per month after taxes at 50k. Where is the rest of your money going?

that is a bi weekly pay check. $1160 is a biweekly check after tax, 401 k contribution, health, and dental.


Mid month is

-$420 for car payments
-$250 student loans
-$ whatever balance I put on my credit card at the beginning of the month to help me last until mid month's pay check.

[Cyrus]

You have been working for a while now, why dont you have a raise? 50k is low. My friend started at 55k in HVAC as a mechanical E. Almost all my friends started at 55k.

[gravenewworld]

Opps how did this get into politics? Must have made a mistake. Could you please move to general?

[Jekertee]

I used to visit a student website in Japan, those student admins were mainly taught and supported by some in the US, some of them posted a similar thread like. Why shouldn't you go back and search there for this and representatives, living expense supporters, outlook help, etc, they have all sort of news?

[gravenewworld]

You have been working for a while now, why dont you have a raise? 50k is low. My friend started at 55k in HVAC as a mechanical E. Almost all my friends started at 55k.


And I know a lot of college graduates who started at only 30 K. Engineers will typically make more than us science majors. Plus the cost of living contributes to how high salaries go in different parts of the country. Making $65 grand in NYC would be about the same as making $50 grand somewhere else.

[Jekertee]

Oops, srry if it weren't you who posted that thread then forgive my nonsense interrupt

[gravenewworld]

I used to visit a student website in Japan, those student admins were mainly taught and supported by some in the US, some of them posted a similar thread like. Why shouldn't you go back and search there for this and representatives, living expense supporters, outlook help, etc, they have all sort of news?



Strange. I have no idea what to make of this post.

[Cyrus]

And I know a lot of college graduates who started at only 30 K. Engineers will typically make more than us science majors. Plus the cost of living contributes to how high salaries go in different parts of the country. Making $65 grand in NYC would be about the same as making $50 grand somewhere else.

Yikes. 30k a year is appalling. Isnt that borderline welfare income?

[gravenewworld]

Yikes. 30k a year is appalling. Isnt that borderline welfare income?

Yeah, I keep telling my brother that. What do you expect from an art major though?

[gravenewworld]

Honestly, I'll probably ending moving back to my parents house for 3 years and using all the money I save on rent and utilities to 1st pay off my car and then put a huge dent in my student loans. :::sigh::: nothing will be worse than being 26 and still be having to live with your parents.

[Cyrus]

What kinda car do you have, and how much are your student loans?

In the end, my total cost of undergrad is I think somewhere around $22k.

[gravenewworld]

I drive a Mazda 3, it isn't like I am driving a BMW.

I borrowed about $42 K in loans to go to school. If I ever have a kid they are NEVER going to attend a private university. It is a complete waste of money when you can get the same education at a public state university for half the cost.

[Anttech]

Its scandalous that you have to pay anything for access to Education...

[gravenewworld]

Its scandalous that you have to pay anything for access to Education...

yeah tell me about it.

[Jimmy Snyder]

Hey look at that, that leaves me with $145 for the next two weeks for gas and food.
Guess I will be eating a lot of Ramen.
That's $10 a day. How much for gas and how much for food?

[EnumaElish]

-$433 rent
-$135 student loan
-$125 heating
-$65 cable/internet
-$55 electricity
-$125 car insurance
-$30 water
-$50 phone
You're paying too much for heat + electricity. See if your area utility has a year-round payment plan. You can live w/o cable; for internet switch to DSL, slim down your phone service to "local/basic" (essentially for 911 calls) and buy the least expensive Vodafone plan that's being offered.

[ShawnD]

$1160 is a biweekly check after tax, 401 k contribution, health, and dental.
1160 * 26 / 12 = $2513/month, with 401k, health, and dental already paid for

2513 starting

-433 rent
-135 student loan
-125 heating
-65 cable/internet
-55 electricity
-125 car insurance
-30 water
-50 phone
-420 for car payments
-250 student loans (two separate student loans?)

=820 left over for food, gasoline, clothes, etc.

That's actually very good, assuming you work ~40 hours per week. What is your job and how long have you been in that field?

Your mistake was buying a new car. Everyone on this forum has probably made that same mistake, including myself, but we learn from it. The up front cost is easily 5-10x as much as a good used car, and to add insult to injury, the insurance is several times as expensive because a dealership won't finance the car unless you have comprehensive insurance. Minimum insurance for my car is 150/month now that the car is paid for; it was 350/month for comprehensive in that 6 month period where I owed money on the car.
Buy only used cars in the future.

[chroot]

I have to agree with ShawnD: cars are one of the worst debt traps around. Most people would balk at being $20k in debt on a credit card, yet those same people think financing a new $20k car is completely reasonable. In fact, they think, everyone does it, so it's not "real" debt like credit card debt.

I made the mistake of purchasing a brand-new Honda S2000 when I got out of college. It was fun, but boy, I ended up wishing that I had just bought a used Civic instead.

- Warren

[drankin]

Sell the car, buy something to get around. Then you will be living fine. Save up and pay cash. Once you save up 20k, you will think twice about throwing it down for a new car.

[Greg Bernhardt]

I agree, get rid of the car, buy an 02 honda civic LX. They are actually quite nice and can last 150k miles. I also agree your heating is super high. I have a 900 sq ft 1bed apt and my heating+elec is $70/m total and I keep my tv/laptop on alot and heat at 70F.

[gravenewworld]

1160 * 26 / 12 = $2513/month, with 401k, health, and dental already paid for

2513 starting

-433 rent
-135 student loan
-125 heating
-65 cable/internet
-55 electricity
-125 car insurance
-30 water
-50 phone
-420 for car payments
-250 student loans (two separate student loans?)

=820 left over for food, gasoline, clothes, etc.

That's actually very good, assuming you work ~40 hours per week. What is your job and how long have you been in that field?

Your mistake was buying a new car. Everyone on this forum has probably made that same mistake, including myself, but we learn from it. The up front cost is easily 5-10x as much as a good used car, and to add insult to injury, the insurance is several times as expensive because a dealership won't finance the car unless you have comprehensive insurance. Minimum insurance for my car is 150/month now that the car is paid for; it was 350/month for comprehensive in that 6 month period where I owed money on the car.
Buy only used cars in the future.



That leaves $820 minus what ever I have to pay off on my credit card.

Usually need to fill up 1.5 tanks of gas per week so that is 6 tanks x 13 gallons x $3.05=$240 per month on gasoline.

Also this is assuming I don't have any medical expenses, need to pay a doctor's co-pay, buy new glasses, or contacts, etc. and it also assumes I have no other car expenses like changing the oil, tune up, or break down.


That leaves around $500 a month for food. If I spent all that on food that would be about $15 per day/$5 per meal. That assumes I spend $0 on entertainment every month also.




Heating bill high? Yeah I know it is because here we have the worst run public utility company here known as PGW that is over $1 billion in the red. They charge ridiculous prices for gas in order to make up for their losses and for the fact that they lost a lot of money when they weren't allowed to shut off peoples' heating during the winter who didn't pay the bills because of safety concerns. LOL I do have roomates, the heating bill is actually $375!!! Last winter we got socked with a heating bill that was $465.

[Evo]

Heating bill high? Yeah I know it is because here we have the worst run public utility company here known as PGW that is over $1 billion in the red. They charge ridiculous prices for gas in order to make up for their losses and for the fact that they lost a lot of money when they weren't allowed to shut off peoples' heating during the winter who didn't pay the bills because of safety concerns. LOL I do have roomates, the heating bill is actually $375!!! Last winter we got socked with a heating bill that was $465.Buy portable electric heaters.

[Greg Bernhardt]

Buy portable electric heaters.

How does that help? Portable and furnaces both use electricity or gas, in the end it all comes from the utility company.

[EnumaElish]

LOL I do have roomates, the heating bill is actually $375!!! Last winter we got socked with a heating bill that was $465.You can still opt in a year-round average payment plan if such is being offered.

[chroot]

So basically, the car is eating up an entire third of your take-home pay. Why do you need to use $240 of gas a month? That ends up being something like 1,700 miles per month! Why do you need to drive so many miles? Are there any small changes you can make to rely on some other cheaper transporation?

- Warren

[JasonRox]

I have to agree with ShawnD: cars are one of the worst debt traps around. Most people would balk at being $20k in debt on a credit card, yet those same people think financing a new $20k car is completely reasonable. In fact, they think, everyone does it, so it's not "real" debt like credit card debt.

I made the mistake of purchasing a brand-new Honda S2000 when I got out of college. It was fun, but boy, I ended up wishing that I had just bought a used Civic instead.

- Warren

I also agree.

Good thing I convinced a recent graduate to buy a used car over a new car. She's saving atleast $10000. She thinks it was the best thing to do too.

Also, sometimes trying to live without a car for only 6 months saves you lots of money and puts you ahead.

[Evo]

How does that help? Portable and furnaces both use electricity or gas, in the end it all comes from the utility company.If the cost for electricty is less than for gas or oil (it is much cheaper where I live), he could save a lot by going electric. Also, it would allow heating each room depending on it's use, which could also help cut down.

[turbo]

I have not lived paycheck to paycheck since I started living on my own. Instead, I lived within my means and set aside at least a little of every paycheck. When I met my wife, I had a used 350cc Yamaha, and when that crapped out, I bought a Honda 450 CL. I rode in the snow, rain, etc, and held full-time jobs in construction until I got the chance to go back to school for another semester to pick up some relevant job skills and bought a really beat-up car. My wife and I bought used vehicles, lived in clean but dumpy-looking and poorly-heated apartment buildings and worked our tails off until we could afford to buy a little piece of land and put a house trailer on it, and then we settled in and continued to save and save. If you spend less money than you earn, you will be able to save, and eventually, you will be able to invest in real estate (at least a starter home) in which you can establish and grow your equity. The interest on your primary residence is your best tax break if you are in the low-to-middle class. My wife and I leapfrogged through 4 more properties over the years, until now we have sold our most expensive property and have settled into a modest little 1-story log house and invested the excess.

Anybody with a regular income should establish a budget (NO credit cards) that allows them to live within their means. If this means driving a 4-5 year old car (or NO car if you have public transportation), doing without cable, cutting back on phone service, buck up and do it. Nobody is going to save money for you. Lots of people are willing to dump on the boomers, claiming that our SS burden will collapse the economy. That's a bunch of crap, and some incremental adjustments could easily make SS healthy, if our congressional representatives would grow a set. BTW, I have been paying into SS every year since I was 14 (maintaining a cemetery by myself at that age). I never spent those early paychecks, banking all of them so I might have a chance to go to college. When I got to college, I kept a little pool of cash around (several hundred dollars) and bought, repaired and re-sold guitars and amplifiers and worked weekends in my band playing frat parties and private parties. Every summer, I worked all the hours I could get at local wood-working mills to fatten up my savings. If I had gone to college on borrowed money, I would have been screwed for years. As it turned out, at the end of every year, after paying for tuition, books, rent, food, etc, I had more money than I'd had the previous year, and I still got to treat myself to the occasional pizzas and beers.

[Jimmy Snyder]

Most people would balk at being $20k in debt on a credit card, yet those same people think financing a new $20k car is completely reasonable. In fact, they think, everyone does it, so it's not "real" debt like credit card debt.
Of course $20K of debt for a car is real debt. But it is not the same thing as credit card debt. The interest rate is much smaller and the car has at least some resale value.

[gravenewworld]

That ends up being something like 1,700 miles per month!

- Warren


Yup. I'm slated to put about 20-25K miles on my car a year. Work is about 70 miles each day round trip. There is no public transportation from where I live to where I work. This is also why I got a new car. I wanted something reliable for the long commute and something that I wouldn't have to worry about fixing constantly. I also wanted something with good resale value incase I decided to ditch a car all together if I decided to go to grad school.


Stupid car does eat a lot of my paycheck, but it really wasn't that expensive, it is only a $18 K car brand new.


Plus paying off a new car does give your credit history a good boost.


Funny how everyone points out how the car is the bane of my finances, but not the student loans. In many cases a college education is the REAL rip-off. I should have went to my in-state public university for 1/4 of the cost and for the same exact education.

[JasonRox]

Um... move closer.

[JasonRox]

I also wanted something with good resale value incase I decided to ditch a car all together if I decided to go to grad school.


I'll bring the bad news. The bad news is that NO car will have a good resale value with the mileage your putting on it.

[gravenewworld]

Anybody with a regular income should establish a budget (NO credit cards) that allows them to live within their means. If this means driving a 4-5 year old car (or NO car if you have public transportation), doing without cable, cutting back on phone service, buck up and do it. Nobody is going to save money for you. Lots of people are willing to dump on the boomers, claiming that our SS burden will collapse the economy. That's a bunch of crap, and some incremental adjustments could easily make SS healthy, if our congressional representatives would grow a set. BTW, I have been paying into SS every year since I was 14 (maintaining a cemetery by myself at that age). I never spent those early paychecks, banking all of them so I might have a chance to go to college. When I got to college, I kept a little pool of cash around (several hundred dollars) and bought, repaired and re-sold guitars and amplifiers and worked weekends in my band playing frat parties and private parties. Every summer, I worked all the hours I could get at local wood-working mills to fatten up my savings. If I had gone to college on borrowed money, I would have been screwed for years. As it turned out, at the end of every year, after paying for tuition, books, rent, food, etc, I had more money than I'd had the previous year, and I still got to treat myself to the occasional pizzas and beers.



Yeah but kids in college CAN'T pay their tuitions anymore from "summer jobs". The cost of college tuition and textbooks has easily outpaced inflation by a ridiculous percentage every year. You have kids now borrowing 40,50,60, even 70 grand to attend college. The stories of people who were able to work their way through college to pay for all of their tuition and expenses 15-20 years ago no longer applies. I worked full time all summer long and you know how much I was able to make? Just enough to cover the cost of my textbooks every year for both semesters and my rent. Tuition? LOL no way in hell a college student like me was going to be able to come up with $20K per year from working full time in the summer and part time during the year to avoid taking out a loan. It is ABSOLUTELY IMPOSSIBLE these days for a college student to be able to pay their entire tuition and expenses by themselves with summer and part time jobs without taking out some decent sized loans. The cost of education has skyrocketed over the past 20 years.

[JasonRox]

Yeah but kids in college CAN'T pay their tuitions anymore from "summer jobs". The cost of college tuition and textbooks has easily outpaced inflation by a ridiculous percentage every year. You have kids now borrowing 40,50,60, even 70 grand to attend college. The stories of people who were able to work their way through college to pay for all of their tuition and expenses 15-20 years ago no longer applies. I worked full time all summer long and you know how much I was able to make? Just enough to cover the cost of my textbooks every year for both semesters and my rent. Tuition? LOL no way in hell a college student like me was going to be able to come up with $20K per year from working full time in the summer and part time during the year to avoid taking out a loan. It is ABSOLUTELY IMPOSSIBLE these days for a college student to be able to pay their entire tuition and expenses by themselves with summer and part time jobs without taking out some decent sized loans. The cost of education has skyrocketed over the past 20 years.

I agree 100%!!!

[EnumaElish]

Living from paycheck to paycheck isn't the end of the world as long as you have semi-liquid assets; in your case, the car.

My advice is to pay credit cards on time and not accumulate finance charges. As long as you can do this, credit cards can help you to make ends meet by smoothing out your spending (same as the year-round average payment plan for utilities). But if you want to save more, then you need to spend less.

Other solutions are to renegotiate for an increase, find a higher paying job, or a second job (e.g. tutoring -- if you have a car, you can use it a little more to make a little more money).

[gravenewworld]

I'll bring the bad news. The bad news is that NO car will have a good resale value with the mileage your putting on it.

This is where I have to disagree. Mazda 3 is well known for retaining its value. An '07 3 with 25 K miles still retains 75% of its value in good condition (which mine is in).


Move closer? Possibly, but the housing prices are even higher if I move closer to where I work. Plus I get to live in the big city now while I am young instead of living out in the sterile boring burbs.

[ShawnD]

That leaves $820 minus what ever I have to pay off on my credit card.

This part of your budget is critical because the way interest is calculated on credit card debt should be illegal but somehow isn't. When you get financing on a car or a house, interest is usually compounded on a monthly or biweekly basis. Credit cards are compounded daily. When you pay more than the minimum on a mortgage or car payment, the extra you throw in goes towards paying the principle amount of the loan, which lowers the amount of interest charged in the next compounding period. Credit cards are the opposite, that extra money goes towards paying the interest, and the principle is not paid at all until the entire amount of interest is paid first. Car and house loans have (somewhat) fixed interest rates, so the agreed amount of 5% on a car loan is what the interest is for the entire duration of the loan, or having something like 10 year fixed on a mortgage means the interest is fixed at that rate for 10 years. Credit cards have no locked in rates and can be arbitrarily raised at any given time. You can sign up for a card at 20% interest and they're allowed to jack it up to 30% with no warning or reason.

Find a way to refinance. Talk to a debt consolidation company, try to get a bank loan, try to borrow money from your parents if you need to. Get out of credit card as soon as possible, even if that means you eat nothing but rice for the next couple of months.

Usually need to fill up 1.5 tanks of gas per week so that is 6 tanks x 13 gallons x $3.05=$240 per month on gasoline.
Would it be possible to move closer to work without spending significantly more on rent?


That leaves around $500 a month for food. If I spent all that on food that would be about $15 per day/$5 per meal. That assumes I spend $0 on entertainment every month also.
That's an incredible amount of money to be spending on food. I'm not sure what the difference in PPP is between our two cities, but where I live that would be enough to eat t-bone steak for every meal. My own food expenses are around $100 per month and I think I eat fairly well. I eat toast with peanut butter or jam in the morning, I usually don't eat lunch but sometimes I bring leftovers from the previous night, and my supper is something simple like poached eggs on toast, macaroni and cheese, or chili. Milk is my biggest food expense.


If the cost for electricty is less than for gas or oil (it is much cheaper where I live), he could save a lot by going electric. Also, it would allow heating each room depending on it's use, which could also help cut down.
Localizing the heat really helps. My bedroom has about 500W worth of stuff running, and it keeps this room at least 10C warmer than my kitchen which has nothing running. There's no sense in heating the entire apartment when you're the only person there. Keep an electric heater in the room where you spend the most time, and just heat that one room, and only when you're there. You can get a 1500W heater from Home Depot for $20.


Get a second job too. I work at McDonalds on weekends; it's projected to bring in an extra $9,000 per year :wink:


edit:
Anybody with a regular income should establish a budget (NO credit cards)
I would disagree with this part because using the card builds your credit rating. It's free to use as long as you pay the entire thing on time. It should be used under the assumption that you currently have enough money in your bank account at that time to pay the entire balance on the card. Most people don't think of it like that, but they probably should.

There was one month when the payment dates were screwy and somehow I ended up underpaying the balance by about $50 for a period of three days. The bill was something like 500, I paid 450, then a few days later I paid the remainder. Over the course of 3 days, at 20% annual interest, compounded daily, Visa found a way to charge $12 in interest. If you scale that rate over the course of a year, it's pretty close to 3000% interest.
$12 interest / $50 principle / 3 days * 365 days per year = 29.2, or 2920% yearly interest. Pay that sucker off!

[JasonRox]

Get a second job too. I work at McDonalds on weekends; it's projected to bring in an extra $9,000 per year :wink:

Smart! I was thinking of doing the same thing for like 6 months after graduating. I don't think I'd want to do it for longer than that. I also plan on doing tutoring services at nearby colleges and stuff.

The extra money can help pay off debts quick.

Note: I'd rather work at a grocery store though. :smile:

[Cyrus]

I sell drugs. I dont recomend it.

[ice109]

That's an incredible amount of money to be spending on food. I'm not sure what the difference in PPP is between our two cities, but where I live that would be enough to eat t-bone steak for every meal. My own food expenses are around $100 per month and I think I eat fairly well. I eat toast with peanut butter or jam in the morning, I usually don't eat lunch but sometimes I bring leftovers from the previous night, and my supper is something simple like poached eggs on toast, macaroni and cheese, or chili. Milk is my biggest food expense.



dude not that 500$ a month isn't a huge amount for food but you must be malnourished to be living off 100$.

[drankin]

If you didn't have car payments and what you pay in gas right now, you could rent a decent ($950/mo) apartment close to work and get ahead. But that's just logic talking.

[drankin]

I sell drugs. I dont recomend it.

I hear the dental plan sucks.

[gravenewworld]

If you didn't have car payments and what you pay in gas right now, you could rent a decent ($950/mo) apartment close to work and get ahead. But that's just logic talking.

No that would just be simply shifting one expense in the form of car payments and transferring it into another form of expenses--higher rent. But that is just logic talking.


That's an incredible amount of money to be spending on food. I'm not sure what the difference in PPP is between our two cities, but where I live that would be enough to eat t-bone steak for every meal. My own food expenses are around $100 per month and I think I eat fairly well. I eat toast with peanut butter or jam in the morning, I usually don't eat lunch but sometimes I bring leftovers from the previous night, and my supper is something simple like poached eggs on toast, macaroni and cheese, or chili. Milk is my biggest food expense.



$500 a month is not that much money at all to be spending on food. It breaks down to only about $5 per meal. Also, the $500 figure also assumes I spend $0 on entertainment or medical costs. You must look like a refugee if you can live off of $100 a month for food. That means you are only spending $1.10 per meal-- IMPOSSIBLE to live off of.



Also what is the point of using a space heater if your roommates are just going to blast the heat anyway?


I'll just end up moving back to my parents' house and live there rent and utility free and get all my stupid student loans paid off.

[Cyrus]

Man, $42k in loans is a freaking LOT Of money to owe, and its just for a piece of paper. You cant resell it like a house or car. Im lucky my parents paid for my school, I always bought my own books, which was nearly $1k per semester!!! I worked at an internship during all 4 years and saved my money (which I spent on flying lessons, but worth every penny. Education is priceless). Now that Im going to be in grad school, I could actually finish debt free and with money in the positive from the money they pay grad students. (But keep in mind, I lived at home during college because I saw no reason to give 10k a year when I live a 30 min drive away. It has its +'s and -'s.) I also transfered from a CC my first two years, which was even cheaper. So I only really paid for 3 years of University tuition (due to taking winter and summer classes, which are MAD expensive). And to be honest, Im glad I did NOT take my first two years at University becuase the classes are huge and the teachers dont care squat. They just weed people out.

Life is about chioces. I have a 10 year old honda accord going on 140k miles. Runs fine. Need to change the front spring though, its starting to squeek. I have no plans on buying a new fancy car when I start working. They just depreciate. My only real goal is to get a bangin appartment in downtown DC when I start working (if possible). That would be MUCH more fun than a dorm, IMO, and money better spent for a life experience.

Thats exactly why I only went to grad school if they would pay me. Im done giving money to school.

[gravenewworld]

Man, $42k in loans is a freaking LOT Of money to owe, and its just for a piece of paper. You cant resell it like a house or car. Im lucky my parents paid for my school, I always bought my own books, which was nearly $1k per semester!!! I worked at an internship during all 4 years and saved my money (which I spent on flying lessons, but worth every penny. Education is priceless). Now that Im going to be in grad school, I could actually finish debt free and with money in the positive from the money they pay grad students. (But keep in mind, I lived at home during college because I saw no reason to give 10k a year when I live a 30 min drive away. It has its +'s and -'s.) I also transfered from a CC my first two years, which was even cheaper. So I only really paid for 3 years of University tuition (due to taking winter and summer classes, which are MAD expensive). And to be honest, Im glad I did NOT take my first two years at University becuase the classes are huge and the teachers dont care squat. They just weed people out.

Life is about chioces. I have a 10 year old honda accord going on 140k miles. Runs fine. Need to change the front spring though, its starting to squeek. I have no plans on buying a new fancy car when I start working. They just depreciate.



Education may be priceless, but that doesn't give the universities the right to rip off their students. My kid is absolutely going to an instate public college. Private universities are NOT worth it.

[Cyrus]

Yep, I agree. Unless its (1) Harvard, (2) Princeton, or (3) MIT, (4) Stanford, (5) yale, its not worth it IMO. Besides, you can always go there for grad school. But for certain majors, having that name like Harvard Business, means a LOT in the business world and opens doors for you.

[Greg Bernhardt]

Education may be priceless, but that doesn't give the universities the right to rip off their students. My kid is absolutely going to an instate public college. Private universities are NOT worth it.

The only big difference between good public schools and good private schools are connections and company recruiting. I know a kid who went to Boston University and went one to be very successful. Another of my friends went to Harvard and was equally smart. Both ended up at great companies and successful, but one just paid ALOT more so she had better connections when she graduated and the opportunity to be heavily recruited and woo'ed. But again in the end both successful.

[ShawnD]

$500 a month is not that much money at all to be spending on food. It breaks down to only about $5 per meal. Also, the $500 figure also assumes I spend $0 on entertainment or medical costs. You must look like a refugee if you can live off of $100 a month for food. That means you are only spending $1.10 per meal-- IMPOSSIBLE to live off of.
With $5, you can buy one of the following:
-3lbs of ground beef, the regular fatty kind
-5L (~quarts) of milk (milk is very expensive where I live)
-1.5lbs of butter
-10kg of rice
-8 boxes of kraft dinner (5 if you get brand name Kraft Dinner)
-5 Junior Cheeseburger Deluxe from Wendys
-2kg of Doritos

3lbs of hamburger, at 75 calories per ounce (give or take), is 3600 calories.
5L of 2% milk, at 130 calories per 250mL, is 2600 calories
1.5lbs (~675g) of butter, at 740 calories per 100g, is 4995 calories
10kg of white rice, at 170 calories per cup (let's just assume it has a bulk density of 1), is 6800 calories.
8 boxes of KD, at 720 calories per box (dry mix only, no milk/butter), is 5760 calories
5 cheeseburgers from wendys, at 300 calories each, is 1500 calories
2kg of Doritos, at 250 calories per 50g, is 10000 calories

So as you can see, $5 alone is more than enough to exceed the daily recommended caloric intake of ~2000 calories by up to 5x. The other lesson is that Doritos are a fantastic source of not-dying when you're strapped for cash. Keep that in mind, any college students who may be reading this :wink:


I'll just end up moving back to my parents' house and live there rent and utility free and get all my stupid student loans paid off.
That's not a bad idea. People can call you fruity all they want, but you'll be that fruity guy who isn't up to his eyeballs in debt. I said earlier in this thread that it took me 6 months to pay for a brand new car, and that was only possible because I was living with my parents at that time. Debt goes away incredibly fast when 50-60% of your gross income is "disposable".

[Jimmy Snyder]

When you get financing on a car or a house, interest is usually compounded on a monthly or biweekly basis. Credit cards are compounded daily.
Interest has to be stated in terms of APR which allows you to make comparisons between different kinds of loans.

When you pay more than the minimum on a mortgage or car payment, the extra you throw in goes towards paying the principle amount of the loan, which lowers the amount of interest charged in the next compounding period. Credit cards are the opposite, that extra money goes towards paying the interest, and the principle is not paid at all until the entire amount of interest is paid first.
Actually, credit cards, car loads and mortgages all work the same in this regard. For a credit card, the minimum payment covers interest and a little of the principal. Any amount you pay above the minimum goes directly to principal and lowers the interest in the next payment period.

In fact a mortgage can be the worse deal because sometimes there is a penalty for early payoff. That clause in some mortgages is one of the problems feeding the current subprime crisis.

[momentum_waves]

that is a bi weekly pay check. $1160 is a biweekly check after tax, 401 k contribution, health, and dental.
Mid month is
-$420 for car payments
-$250 student loans
-$ whatever balance I put on my credit card at the beginning of the month to help me last until mid month's pay check.

Chinese advice:
Earn 5, save 2 immediately, spend sparingly, try to save a further 1.

Basically, your way forward:
1. Cut up your credit card - it is expensive money.
2. Hand back the car - it is too expensive.
3. Get a cheaper form of transport until you have saved enough to buy a 2nd-hand vehicle - cash.
4. See if you can reduce the Student Loan payments, or spread things out a little - these are usually 'cheaper money' than credit-cards. Go & talk to your bankers - nicely.

Principle:
Get out of debt & work on cash. Live within your means.

[ShawnD]

Interest has to be stated in terms of APR which allows you to make comparisons between different kinds of loans.
How is APR stated? I see lots of things that will say "5% compounded monthly" or when you buy dividend stocks it could be "4% quarterly dividend", while my Visa Green card is 20%, and when I called them, they said it was compounded daily. It's incredibly dishonest when they're allowed to compound daily and still claim it's 20%. Go into Excel and type "=(1 + (0.2/365))^365" and it will give you something like 1.221335858, which means 22.13% interest. That's over 10% more interest than what they're claiming. That shouldn't even be legal.

Actually, credit cards, car loads and mortgages all work the same in this regard. For a credit card, the minimum payment covers interest and a little of the principal. Any amount you pay above the minimum goes directly to principal and lowers the interest in the next payment period.
Sorry, but I should have stated that my last post was based on word of mouth from a friend who worked for a seedy credit company. Apparently there is some kind of law that prevents a company from charging compound interest, but there's a way around that. Rather than charging interest on interest, the balance on a credit card is split into two separate accounts. One account is the interest, and one is the principle. The company sets the minimum payment to be slightly lower than the interest, which is generally about 30%/year for people who have bad credit, compounded daily. With a potentially never-ending loan in place, the company simulates compound interest by adding user fees. If you pay late, there's a feed. If you pay less than the minimum, there is a fee. Rather than sticking the fees in the interest account, which cannot be charged interest, those fees are thrown into the principle account, which does have interest. You start with $100 principle and you pay interest on that $100. Then you get a $10 service fee to make a $110 principle, and you pay interest on $110.

Basically it's a scam.

In fact a mortgage can be the worse deal because sometimes there is a penalty for early payoff. That clause in some mortgages is one of the problems feeding the current subprime crisis.
Very true.

edit: I think the minimum payment for credit cards varies quite a bit between companies, and even different cards from the same company. My last credit card bill for a Visa Green card at 19.75% interest and a limit of $2,000 was for $1,544 and the minimum required payment on the statement is $47, which is roughly 3%. I've seen statements for my mom's Visa Gold card, and her required minimums are incredibly high. For a statement of about $600, the minimum payment was around $100, which is about 17%. Her credit limit and credit score are much better than mine, so maybe that has something to do with it.

[ice109]

meh my rent is 250$ a month. if i was hard pressed for money i would just stay in this college town.

[Gokul43201]

That leaves around $500 a month for food. If I spent all that on food that would be about $15 per day/$5 per meal.You need to consider the possibility of not eating EVERY meal out. Groceries are a useful concept.

[Gib Z]

My sister is in her second year of University now, and she has things extremely easy, and thats in comparison to most other people, not just you (sorry if that sounded harsh =[ ).

She still lives with the rest of my family, who pay for her phone bill, food, internet, student fees etc etc She borrows their car's, doesn't pay for the gas, and doesn't even need the cars to go to Uni because the public transport here is pretty cheap and fast, almost no matter where you live. She works at a clothing store where she gets twenty-four dollars, which is a crazy amount for someone her age. Basically, my parents pay for all her entertainment expenses as well, ie going out to dinners and lunches with friends. The only thing she actually uses the money she works on are larger entertainment expenses, like Concert tickets. The rest goes straight into her savings.

The fact that someone is living paycheck to paycheck while someone close to me has it so easy gives me the most guilty feeling of disgusting unfairness.

P.S My parents have already said they won't be able to completely fund a school like Harvard for my post-grad, so I'm going to be living as tight as you are in a few years :(

[animalcroc]

Assuming youre single, Im surprised you live paycheck to paycheck with that income.

[Jimmy Snyder]

How is APR stated? I see lots of things that will say "5% compounded monthly" or when you buy dividend stocks it could be "4% quarterly dividend", while my Visa Green card is 20%, and when I called them, they said it was compounded daily. It's incredibly dishonest when they're allowed to compound daily and still claim it's 20%. Go into Excel and type "=(1 + (0.2/365))^365" and it will give you something like 1.221335858, which means 22.13% interest. That's over 10% more interest than what they're claiming. That shouldn't even be legal.
APR is the annual interest rate with no compounding. This way you can easily compare rates. Two loans may be stated at different rates depending on how often compounding is done, but if the APR is the same, then it doesn't matter. Lenders must state what the APR is and this is the figure you should use for comparisons.

Sorry, but I should have stated that my last post was based on word of mouth from a friend who worked for a seedy credit company. Apparently there is some kind of law that prevents a company from charging compound interest, but there's a way around that. Rather than charging interest on interest, the balance on a credit card is split into two separate accounts. One account is the interest, and one is the principle. The company sets the minimum payment to be slightly lower than the interest, which is generally about 30%/year for people who have bad credit, compounded daily. With a potentially never-ending loan in place, the company simulates compound interest by adding user fees. If you pay late, there's a feed. If you pay less than the minimum, there is a fee. Rather than sticking the fees in the interest account, which cannot be charged interest, those fees are thrown into the principle account, which does have interest. You start with $100 principle and you pay interest on that $100. Then you get a $10 service fee to make a $110 principle, and you pay interest on $110.
Sounds fantastic to me. Credit card companies normally do charge interest on interest, they don't keep separate accounts. If you pay less than the interest accrued in a given month, the unpaid interest becomes principal for the next month.

[gravenewworld]

With $5, you can buy one of the following:
-3lbs of ground beef, the regular fatty kind
-5L (~quarts) of milk (milk is very expensive where I live)
-1.5lbs of butter
-10kg of rice
-8 boxes of kraft dinner (5 if you get brand name Kraft Dinner)
-5 Junior Cheeseburger Deluxe from Wendys
-2kg of Doritos

3lbs of hamburger, at 75 calories per ounce (give or take), is 3600 calories.
5L of 2% milk, at 130 calories per 250mL, is 2600 calories
1.5lbs (~675g) of butter, at 740 calories per 100g, is 4995 calories
10kg of white rice, at 170 calories per cup (let's just assume it has a bulk density of 1), is 6800 calories.
8 boxes of KD, at 720 calories per box (dry mix only, no milk/butter), is 5760 calories
5 cheeseburgers from wendys, at 300 calories each, is 1500 calories
2kg of Doritos, at 250 calories per 50g, is 10000 calories

So as you can see, $5 alone is more than enough to exceed the daily recommended caloric intake of ~2000 calories by up to 5x. The other lesson is that Doritos are a fantastic source of not-dying when you're strapped for cash. Keep that in mind, any college students who may be reading this :wink:




Whew! If I had a diet like that I'm sure my doc would want to slap me. When it comes to food, I absolutely refuse to be cheap. I don't mine shelling out extra $$ for fresh fruit and vegetables, more lean meats, and higher quality fish.


In reality, I probably spend about $300 a month on buying groceries. That leaves me with $200 for 4 weeks=$50 a week which I spend on going to the movies or hanging out with my friends and drinking beers at the bar.

[ice109]

Whew! If I had a diet like that I'm sure my doc would want to slap me. When it comes to food, I absolutely refuse to be cheap. I don't mine shelling out extra $$ for fresh fruit and vegetables, more lean meats, and higher quality fish.


In reality, I probably spend about $300 a month on buying groceries. That leaves me with $200 for 4 weeks=$50 a week which I spend on going to the movies or hanging out with my friends and drinking beers at the bar.

stop eating fish. it's a waste of money. i refuse to skimp on lean meat too but fish is just plain stupid. so is the beer and the movies considering bittorrent.

[Gib Z]

Seriously guys, we're talking about this guy on a tight budget and a lot of this would be relieved if he moved back in with his parents, which he doesn't want to because everyone knows thats kinda fruity.

But I would rather be the one living with my parents then the one who eats bad, can't go to the movies, and can't have a drink at the bar.

[ice109]

Seriously guys, we're talking about this guy on a tight budget and a lot of this would be relieved if he moved back in with his parents, which he doesn't want to because everyone knows thats kinda fruity.

But I would rather be the one living with my parents then the one who eats bad, can't go to the movies, and can't have a drink at the bar.
he's far from impoverished.

[JasonRox]

he's far from impoverished.

Yeah.

It seems more like bad management of finances.

[momentum_waves]

Try the Chinese method I proposed - it works... :)

[Jimmy Snyder]

You should contact this woman and find out how she does it.$382!!!, Heck, I spend that much on a pair of socks. (http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/SavingandDebt/LearnToBudget/SurvivingAndThrivingOn12000AYear.aspx)

[cristo]

Yeah.

It seems more like bad management of finances.

I agree. I earn around £16k which is at least less then half the OP earns, and I manage to get by-- of course I don't have a car, since it's just a drain on money. Plus I live in London where having a car is pretty useless.

[JasonRox]

You should contact this woman and find out how she does it.$382!!!, Heck, I spend that much on a pair of socks. (http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/SavingandDebt/LearnToBudget/SurvivingAndThrivingOn12000AYear.aspx)

Awesome!

I find eating pasta really cheap too though.

Yeah, it's definitely doable. I spent a lot of money this year (help from father). Generally, I'm either cheap or I work even more hours for what I want. I spent years going through college and paying my way through ($5000 tuition). Bought my books, bought my car, paid my own insanely high insurance (started at $2600 a year), paid my own gas, paid for my own clothes and so on for 4 years. After the 4 years, I owed only $9000! That's a deal.

This year my dad started helping me (he always did, I just didn't see any money... long story) so basically I was able to finally buy clothes I want and go out fairly frequently.

I could of probably chose to become debt free instead but if all goes well I'll end up owing like $6000 when I'm done while owning a car and scooter (real one). I plan on hold onto my car for as long as I can and also my car insurance is at $1000 a year now (that's a real dream for me...I have no claims, tickets or accidents!).

[ShawnD]

Whew! If I had a diet like that I'm sure my doc would want to slap me. When it comes to food, I absolutely refuse to be cheap. I don't mine shelling out extra $$ for fresh fruit and vegetables, more lean meats, and higher quality fish.


In reality, I probably spend about $300 a month on buying groceries. That leaves me with $200 for 4 weeks=$50 a week which I spend on going to the movies or hanging out with my friends and drinking beers at the bar.

You might want to cut back on fresh fish and get canned fish. The price of fish varies a lot depending on location, and in my area fish is easily $15/pound.

It might be a good idea to stop drinking at bars too. I'm usually the designated driver under the condition that people buy me food and soft drinks at the bar, so I get away with paying next to nothing :wink:

[ice109]

You might want to cut back on fresh fish and get canned fish. The price of fish varies a lot depending on location, and in my area fish is easily $15/pound.

It might be a good idea to stop drinking at bars too. I'm usually the designated driver under the condition that people buy me food and soft drinks at the bar, so I get away with paying next to nothing :wink:

:rofl: great idea. i don't like to drink and now i can profit from it

[chroot]

Moving back in with the parents is a difficult, but financially wise decision. Even if you only live with them for a year, you'll be in an incredibly different position at the end of it.

Everything everyone has said about credit cards is absolutely true: they are essentially corporate evil. Thankfully, they are powerless so long as you never carry a balance. (Assuming you didn't get suckered into one that has annual fees.) The #1 priority in almost any personal financial situation is to eliminate credit card debt. Nothing is costlier than credit card debt.

I'd also have to say that choosing to skimp on good food is a terrible decision, compared to skimping on other things like cars. We have a tremendous health problem in this country, partially because crap like Doritos and Wendy's burgers cost so little, and green veggies and fruit cost so much. Skipping vegetables and fish because they're expensive is a terrible idea. Instead, try to find farmer's markets and so on with cheaper (and better) produce.

- Warren

[ice109]

eating fish is equivalent to nutritional indulgence.

[chroot]

eating fish is equivalent to nutritional indulgence.

Because it's expensive? Because fisheries are not currently all that sustainable worldwide? Or because you think the rather unique nutrients you get from fish are completely unnecessary for good health?

- Warren

[ice109]

Because it's expensive? Because fisheries are not currently all that sustainable worldwide? Or because you think the rather unique nutrients you get from fish are completely unnecessary for good health?

- Warren

because the "unique" nutrients in fish can be found other places for much cheaper.

[chroot]

From a bottle of pills, which are made from fish?

- Warren

[ice109]

From a bottle of pills, which are made from fish?

- Warren

from flax which is much richer in omega 3s than fish

[turbo]

Fish is wonderful, as is fresh meat, fruits, and vegetables, but they can be pricy. When I got my own apartment in college, I slashed my food costs by concentrating on rice, pasta, dried legumes, and cheaper staple vegetables like potatoes and onions. I would budget for celery (good in lentil soup), green peppers (essential in spaghetti sauce), meats and cheeses, and yes, some fish from time to time. I brown-bagged every day, usually with a sandwich made from my home-baked whole wheat bread and an apple or a banana. There is no need to spend a lot of money on food if you can find the time to cook. I made soups, baked beans, casseroles, etc every week, and if I had managed to sell a pricey guitar or scored a 2-gig weekend playing guitar in my band, I might splurge and add a little pepperoni to my spaghetti sauce, along with some cheap hamburg. Meatless spaghetti was the norm, though, just for the sake of saving some money. Poor money management is the source of many (if not most) busted budgets. If you can't afford it, don't buy it. If you can cook for yourself and have lots of left-overs for other meals, it's a whole lot cheaper than eating out or buying "convenience foods" at the supermarket. I'd much rather take control of my own finances and live within my means than move back home with mom and dad, but I've got to admit that for the OP, returning to the nest would let him start paying down loans promptly without making the choices necessary to design and observe a budget. Easier, not necessarily "better" though, since living within your means is perhaps the most valuable skill-set one can acquire.

[gravenewworld]

from flax which is much richer in omega 3s than fish

You know some of us (like me for instance) might actually LIKE the way fish tastes. It is all about personal preference. Fish is probably one of my favorite meals. I will not be cheap when it comes to food. Almost everything I eat never comes from a can or a box. And you can buy cheap fish like flounder or catfish. Not all fish is expensive like Halibut.


Poor money management is the source of many (if not most) busted budgets. If you can't afford it, don't buy it. If you can cook for yourself and have lots of left-overs for other meals, it's a whole lot cheaper than eating out or buying "convenience foods" at the supermarket. I'd much rather take control of my own finances and live within my means than move back home with mom and dad, but I've got to admit that for the OP, returning to the nest would let him start paying down loans promptly without making the choices necessary to design and observe a budget. Easier, not necessarily "better" though, since living within your means is perhaps the most valuable skill-set one can acquire.


Money management? LOL that is something they don't teach you until you get into the real world. Do you really think I would have went to a private school if someone easily explained to a 17 year old me that I would have student loans that wouldn't be paid off until 2042?

Personal finance 101 should be required at EVERY university by the state in order to receive a diploma.

[ice109]

You know some of us (like me for instance) might actually LIKE the way fish tastes. It is all about personal preference. Fish is probably one of my favorite meals. I will not be cheap when it comes to food. Almost everything I eat never comes from a can or a box. And you can buy cheap fish like flounder or catfish. Not all fish is expensive like Halibut.

:confused: then don't complain about being broke.

you:"zomg im broke and i don't know why"
everyone else: "it's cause you're spending all of your money"
you: "but i like to live in the lap of luxury and i still don't understand why i'm broke"
everyone else: "refer to line two"

[gravenewworld]

:confused: then don't complain about being broke.
everyone else: "it's cause you're spending all of your money"


Yeah on STUDENT LOANS.

I'll come out and say what everyone is afraid to say right now--- higher education can be a RIP OFF.

[ice109]

Yeah on STUDENT LOANS.

135$ of 1015$ is most of your money :confused: you sound like you need to someone to complain to. maybe it's good that you're moving back into your parent's house.

[gravenewworld]

135$ of 1015$ is most of your money :confused: you sound like you need to someone to complain to. maybe it's good that you're moving back into your parent's house.

$135+$250


You know how much actually went to the principal last month? Only about $100 At a rate like that I won't have my student loans paid off until 2040+


Higher education loans=SCAM.



Sounds like you don't know what it is like to carry a lot of undergrad debt. Come from a privileged family?

[ice109]

$135+$250


You know how much actually went to the principal last month? Only about $100 At a rate like that I won't have my student loans paid off until 2040+


Higher education loans=SCAM.



Sounds like you don't know what it is like to carry a lot of undergrad debt. Come from a privileged family?
:rofl:

[gravenewworld]

:rofl:

:zzz:

[Evo]

Lety's not argue over this, I think Gravenewworld has a good grasp of where his money goes, unlike my youngest daughter. :grumpy:

[ShawnD]

From a bottle of pills, which are made from fish?

- Warren

There's nothing wrong with supplements, but people go about it the wrong way. Humans have survived for thousands of years without supplements, so the starting point should be eating good food. When you can't get "good" food (living on rice to save money), supplement whatever is missing. Stupid people have a nasty habit of going the other way around; they start with supplements then work their diet around supplements.

[Holocene]

Its scandalous that you have to pay anything for access to Education...

You don't. People don't understand that you can educate yourself without any college at all. But, you won't be recognized for it. You have to spend 10's of thousands for that piece of paper.

[gravenewworld]

There's nothing wrong with supplements, but people go about it the wrong way. Humans have survived for thousands of years without supplements, so the starting point should be eating good food. When you can't get "good" food (living on rice to save money), supplement whatever is missing. Stupid people have a nasty habit of going the other way around; they start with supplements then work their diet around supplements.

There is increasing evidence that supplements aren't nearly as effective as obtaining your nutrients from food. Do you think those supplements are just made entirely out of the vitamin it is supposed to be? No, you are also consuming all sorts of other formulation chemicals that hold the pill together. Also there are many many other compounds in food that no one has any idea how they interact in the body and contribute to nutrition. Beta carotene in the pill form has been found to be void of the cancer preventing effects that are seen when vegetables that are high in beta carotene are consumed.

[turbo]

Money management? LOL that is something they don't teach you until you get into the real world. Do you really think I would have went to a private school if someone easily explained to a 17 year old me that I would have student loans that wouldn't be paid off until 2042?

Personal finance 101 should be required at EVERY university by the state in order to receive a diploma.Budgeting and home finances were taught (mostly to girls) in my HS in the 60's. I didn't need that course. I had been working full-time every summer from age 14 on, and part-time during the springs and falls, maintaining the town's cemetery. I didn't spend a bit of that money. It was understood that I WOULD attend college and that my parents COULD NOT help me much. I worked all through college, buying and selling guitars, amps, etc, and repairing and adjusting guitars for other musicians, as well as playing frat parties. When I applied for financial aid before attending college, I was told that I didn't qualify because I had worked and saved too much money for college. That's all right, I went on my own dime, with some help from my folks when I hit a rough patch or two. To save money, I went in on a house-rental with some band-mates in my junior year. I soon found out that my budget was getting busted, and had to lay down the law. Just because there was food in the refrigerator, it was NOT fair game. If they didn't buy it, and they didn't cook it, they couldn't eat it without permission. A couple of the guys were really used to sponging off their parents and they got a little offended by the notion that they ought to pay their own way, but they eventually saw the light when I showed them my budget and their impact on it. They even offered to pay for ingredients when they wanted to have spaghetti, chili, baked beans and biscuits, etc, and we smoothed it out. I didn't mind baking extra bread or making extra casserole dishes when I didn't have to bear the full burden of the cost and the time, and I could plan my meals for the week without getting "surprises" when my house-mates got the munchies and raided my food.

[gravenewworld]

Budgeting and home finances were taught (mostly to girls) in my HS in the 60's. I didn't need that course. I had been working full-time every summer from age 14 on, and part-time during the springs and falls, maintaining the town's cemetery. I didn't spend a bit of that money. It was understood that I WOULD attend college and that my parents COULD NOT help me much. I worked all through college, buying and selling guitars, amps, etc, and repairing and adjusting guitars for other musicians, as well as playing frat parties. When I applied for financial aid before attending college, I was told that I didn't qualify because I had worked and saved too much money for college. That's all right, I went on my own dime, with some help from my folks when I hit a rough patch or two. To save money, I went in on a house-rental with some band-mates in my junior year. I soon found out that my budget was getting busted, and had to lay down the law. Just because there was food in the refrigerator, it was NOT fair game. If they didn't buy it, and they didn't cook it, they couldn't eat it without permission. A couple of the guys were really used to sponging off their parents and they got a little offended by the notion that they ought to pay their own way, but they eventually saw the light when I showed them my budget and their impact on it. They even offered to pay for ingredients when they wanted to have spaghetti, chili, baked beans and biscuits, etc, and we smoothed it out. I didn't mind baking extra bread or making extra casserole dishes when I didn't have to bear the full burden of the cost and the time, and I could plan my meals for the week without getting "surprises" when my house-mates got the munchies and raided my food.


I worked full time too all during high school as a bike messenger. I saved a few grand and opened up an IRA. I worked all through college, at one point I had 3 part time jobs. That was only enough though to cover the costs of textbooks, utilities, food, and gas. These days it is almost IMPOSSIBLE to find a student who can pay an entire college tuition on their own, even if they do work all during school without having to take out a loan because of the fact that tuition rates easily out pace inflation every year. College tuition costs are reaching outrageous levels even at instate schools for a lot of families and are becoming more and more of a burden on the future finances of new graduates. I recently read in the paper that the majority of new graduates with loans don't even expect to own a new home until they are well into their 30s because of how long it will take to pay off student loans. This day in age, the average student leaves school with almost 20 grand in debt. This also comes at a time when the Bush Administration has cut back on the amount of federal funding available for college student loans as well as raised the interest rate for federal student loans to 6.8%. What does that mean? Even more students then ever will be taking out even more higher interest private loans.

[ShawnD]

you are also consuming all sorts of other formulation chemicals that hold the pill together

Cheap pills like caffeine pills are generally held together with corn starch or calcium carbonate. Amino acid supplements (5-htp, phenylalanine) are gel caps filled with powder. Prescription drugs are more likely to contain "chemicals" as you call them in order to have a time release effect, which doesn't really apply to supplements.

You're right about needing other things.

[drankin]

No that would just be simply shifting one expense in the form of car payments and transferring it into another form of expenses--higher rent. But that is just logic talking.

That's if the rent is even that high closer to work. Your logic requires maintaining debt and paying unncessary fuel expenses as well as being at the mercy of unpredictable gas prices. Not to mention wasted time that could be applied to overtime, a second income, or something else productive. That's bad logic. Nice try though.

[gravenewworld]

That's if the rent is even that high closer to work. Your logic requires maintaining debt and paying unncessary fuel expenses as well as being at the mercy of unpredictable gas prices. Not to mention wasted time that could be applied to overtime, a second income, or something else productive. That's bad logic. Nice try though.

LOL this coming from someone who has no idea what the cost of rent is in places like West Chester, PA or Exton, PA which are the areas close to my work. LOL glad you assume I get paid hourly. Overtime doesn't exist for me genius. This post was a terrible waste of my time. Thanks.

[turbo]

Back in my HS days, full-time minimum-wage work paid $1.25/hour. Luckily, school at the state college was running $1200/year plus housing, food, etc, and engineering school books (although VERY expensive) were still within my reach.

Based on my mathematics SAT scores, I was offered comprehensive scholarships in Michigan and Arizona and was encouraged to apply for student aid at MIT. I never followed those up, because I wanted to live in Maine and earn a comfortable income, and at that time, pulp and paper was the dominant industry here and the U of M had a killer Chem E program sponsored in part by the P&P industry. I might have gotten a free ride at another school, but the freedom to hitch-hike home for a weekend to visit friends and family looked a whole lot better than buying plane tickets to come home once or twice a year.

You've got to make choices. I chose to live simply and school locally, so that I could maintain my connections with my friends and family. It may have been a better choice to spend the time exploring MIT or perhaps accepting full-boat scholarships at other schools, but that's not my way. I have always lived within 50 miles of where I was born, and my wife and I are rooted here. I have jumped jobs fearlessly as opportunities have come up, but I'll always live here.

BTW, hitch-hiking with long hair and a knapsack wasn't all that safe here in 1970. I've dodged beer-bottles on the road and have hit the woods trying to avoid car-fulls of rednecks. Luckily, I ran cross-country all through HS, and could outrun practically anybody intent on making an example of me. One night at the Madison Legion hall, I was surrounded by most of that town's football team after the quarterback's girlfriend and I hit it off. I chose the most likely target, stomped on his instep, and ran over him. The last pursuer gave up at about a quarter-mile, and I only had to walk home about 20 miles. She was REALLY cute!

[Gib Z]

That might be one of the best stories I've ever heard on these forums =] Risking a good beating by the entire football team, but of course it's worth it when the girl's really cute =D

[drankin]

LOL this coming from someone who has no idea what the cost of rent is in places like West Chester, PA or Exton, PA which are the areas close to my work. LOL glad you assume I get paid hourly. Overtime doesn't exist for me genius. This post was a terrible waste of my time. Thanks.

Welp, you can't give someone good advice if they already no everything. But it isn't hard to find an apartment online. Oh, look, here's one:

Goshen Meadows
1323 West Chester Pike
West Chester, PA 19382

1 1 $840 - $890
2 1 $1000 - $1050

Fitness room, washer/dryer in unit. You don't have to be a genius...

[turbo]

That might be one of the best stories I've ever heard on these forums =] Risking a good beating by the entire football team, but of course it's worth it when the girl's really cute =DI didn't know that she was the quarterback's ex-girlfriend until the team surrounded me in the parking lot. She was awfully cute and curvy, but I didn't expect to get assaulted, especially since my winter "hugger" was equally cute and curvy and we were ski-patrol partners at a serious ski resort.

[gravenewworld]

Welp, you can't give someone good advice if they already no everything. But it isn't hard to find an apartment online. Oh, look, here's one:

Goshen Meadows
1323 West Chester Pike
West Chester, PA 19382

1 1 $840 - $890
2 1 $1000 - $1050

Fitness room, washer/dryer in unit. You don't have to be a genius...

EXACTLY. DOUBLE THE RENT. WHAT A GENIUS YOU ARE. Houses in Exton and West Chester routinely go anywhere from $400,000-$1 million so why do you think rent is so expensive in those areas? But I'm sure you knew all this already. Even if I lived closer to work in those areas I would still make the same thread because rather than spending a ton of money on gas I would be spending a ton of money on rent instead. Ironic, because if I did that then people would be telling me to move out.

[hypatia]

I know so many people who live pay check to pay check. Don't worry, things will get better. I also would spend the extra money on good healthy foods, and I would also spend money on things I do for fun.
Bad diet and stress, will do you far more harm in the long run. Your young, you have the rest of your life to improve on paychecks, don't fret.

[user101]

Tutor - you can make good money.

Reduce the cable to dial-up (if you already have a landline). So you won't get blazing fast speeds, but you'll save a crapload on the internet.

Try being a bike messenger on the weekends? That might throw in very little money, but it's money nonetheless for easy work.

Learn programming and sign up on rentacoder.com.

Do you have any old and used things?

How about going on welfare?

[ShawnD]

Reduce the cable to dial-up (if you already have a landline). So you won't get blazing fast speeds, but you'll save a crapload on the internet.
How about going on welfare?

Dialup is the same price as dsl. $10 for the connection + $20 for an extra phone line = $30. DSL and cable cost about $30 if you get a basic plan.

You cannot claim welfare if you are employed, especially when your income is higher than the national median income.

[drankin]

I agree, 50k should set you up if you are single. But the cost of living where you work brings down that 50k. If you made that where you live now, you would be sitting pretty. Car payments and fuel eat up a good chunck of your take home. With someone with your eductation you are at the low-end of the pay scale in the city you are working. With more experience, that should go up. What is your position, graven?

I work in Redmond, WA. Just as expensive a town to work in. I also live 300 miles away and just come to town to work during the weekdays. I use my cheap 97' Neon (I bought used for $2500) to commute to keep my fuel cost down. But this town pays twice as much as the same position would pay in my home town so it works out.

Something else to think about, if were able to work as a contractor through a professional placement agency, you could get a significant per diem on top of your salary that would more than cover your travel and lodging expenses. This is what I am currently doing (per diem is $1600). So I get the Redmond salary while living in a town with a lower cost of living.

[gravenewworld]

I agree, 50k should set you up if you are single. But the cost of living where you work brings down that 50k. If you made that where you live now, you would be sitting pretty. Car payments and fuel eat up a good chunck of your take home. With someone with your eductation you are at the low-end of the pay scale in the city you are working. With more experience, that should go up. What is your position, graven?

I work in Redmond, WA. Just as expensive a town to work in. I also live 300 miles away and just come to town to work during the weekdays. I use my cheap 97' Neon (I bought used for $2500) to commute to keep my fuel cost down. But this town pays twice as much as the same position would pay in my home town so it works out.

Something else to think about, if were able to work as a contractor through a professional placement agency, you could get a significant per diem on top of your salary that would more than cover your travel and lodging expenses. This is what I am currently doing (per diem is $1600). So I get the Redmond salary while living in a town with a lower cost of living.


I'm medicinal chemist on the very bottom rung, i.e. a "research assistant". My boss said that I would be getting a promotion after this year though. In the line of work I am in employers definitely have the upper hand. Finding jobs in the pharmaceutical industry for chemists has been brutal recently. Right now there are literally 1000s of chemists out there scrambling for jobs since all the big pharma companies have had massive layoffs. You have Phds now filling up labs taking slightly above entry level positions because finding jobs are so hard for them.

[drankin]

I'm medicinal chemist on the very bottom rung, i.e. a "research assistant". My boss said that I would be getting a promotion after this year though. In the line of work I am in employers definitely have the upper hand. Finding jobs in the pharmaceutical industry for chemists has been brutal recently. Right now there are literally 1000s of chemists out there scrambling for jobs since all the big pharma companies have had massive layoffs. You have Phds now filling up labs taking slightly above entry level positions because finding jobs are so hard for them.

Ouch, sounds very competitive. My wife is study biochemistry right now and I wonder if she realizes how it's getting.

[ShawnD]

I'm medicinal chemist on the very bottom rung, i.e. a "research assistant". My boss said that I would be getting a promotion after this year though. In the line of work I am in employers definitely have the upper hand. Finding jobs in the pharmaceutical industry for chemists has been brutal recently. Right now there are literally 1000s of chemists out there scrambling for jobs since all the big pharma companies have had massive layoffs. You have Phds now filling up labs taking slightly above entry level positions because finding jobs are so hard for them.

It's like that in Canada too. PhD guy across the hall couldn't even get an entry level analytical job. Chemists around here make less than entry level warehouse personnel.

[ice109]

all these grim tales are absolutely absurd.

[allanworks]

yea me im on disability and live on only $640.00 a month

[mordechai9]

BTW, hitch-hiking with long hair and a knapsack wasn't all that safe here in 1970. I've dodged beer-bottles on the road and have hit the woods trying to avoid car-fulls of rednecks. Luckily, I ran cross-country all through HS, and could outrun practically anybody intent on making an example of me. One night at the Madison Legion hall, I was surrounded by most of that town's football team after the quarterback's girlfriend and I hit it off. I chose the most likely target, stomped on his instep, and ran over him. The last pursuer gave up at about a quarter-mile, and I only had to walk home about 20 miles. She was REALLY cute!

Well, to be honest with you, I've spent my fair share of time living pay-check to pay-check as well. When I started out in college I was at the rare age of 18 with nothing but lint and napkins in my pockets. I started working in the local gymnasium as a janitor cleaning out toilets and garbage cans in order to pay the bills. Unfortunately I still wasn't hardly making enough to pay for my books and tuition at the same time. So I moved to wee little dungy place that sat in a back alley several miles from the university. The apartment was little more than a coat closet. In fact, I heard it was renovated from an old mustard cooler that the restaraunts used to use back in the grand 40's. So I slept in this tiny room which was just barely big enough to hold a single (3 ft wide) bed. My legs couldn't stretch out all the way so I actually put a board slanted up against the wall, that way, if I slept on a slant I could get an extra foot or so of leg room. Unfortunately this created huge problems where I'd wake up in the middle of the night with a pounding headache from all the blood rushing to my head. Couple of times I woke up screaming my lungs out and all the nearby cats and homeless men in the alley would just go berserk.

Anyways sorry I'm losing track here friend but don't worry you'll make it through! Just take those janitorial jobs like none of them other suckers want to take. If I made it this far I promise you will too!

[rewebster]

I've slowed my spending on art, most paintings and other types of art, due to higher heating, electric, food, etc costs.

budget, budget, budget