Uncovering the Origins of Pi: A Closer Look at Archimedes' Approximation

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the origins and definitions of pi, particularly focusing on Archimedes' approximation methods. Participants explore its mathematical significance, historical context, and various definitions related to circles, including the ratio of circumference to diameter and the area of a unit circle.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Historical

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants inquire about the meaning of pi and its decimal representation, noting that it extends infinitely.
  • One participant emphasizes the importance of precise language when discussing mathematical concepts, particularly the distinction between "going to infinity" and the bounded nature of pi.
  • A question is raised regarding whether pi is defined as the ratio of circumference to diameter or as the area of a circle with radius 1, suggesting that both definitions are valid.
  • Another participant asserts that historically, pi was defined as the circumference to diameter ratio and mentions Archimedes' use of polygons to approximate pi.
  • One participant clarifies that Archimedes proved the equivalence of the constants related to circumference and area, and describes his algorithm for calculating polygon side lengths.
  • A later reply corrects an earlier statement about Archimedes' methods, asserting that he did not physically draw polygons but developed algorithms for approximation.
  • It is noted that Archimedes established bounds for pi, specifically between 223/71 and 22/7.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying views on the definitions of pi and its historical context, with no consensus reached regarding the preferred definition or the implications of Archimedes' work.

Contextual Notes

Some discussions involve assumptions about mathematical terminology and the historical accuracy of Archimedes' methods, which remain unresolved.

decibel
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what does pi mean, and where did it come from, i know its 3.141592654, but i also know there's a lot more decimal places then that, does anyone know anything about it?
 
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Funny coincidence.I just finished watching that movie a couple of nights ago. I believe the number goes to infinity after the decimal point.
 
what does pi mean

When I was in 7th grade, I learned that pi was the ratio of the circumference to the diameter of a circle. I still think it means that today.
 
The_Professional said:
I believe the number goes to infinity after the decimal point.

I know you mean no harm, but just be careful how you phrase it. It is true that there is an infinity of digits after the decimal point, but, in math, "goes to infinity" usually means that the quantity itself grows without bound, while pi is no larger than 3.2.
 
ahrkron said:
I know you mean no harm, but just be careful how you phrase it. It is true that there is an infinity of digits after the decimal point, but, in math, "goes to infinity" usually means that the quantity itself grows without bound, while pi is no larger than 3.2.

Thanks for clearing that out :)
 
My question is this: is PI defined as the ratio of circumference to diameter, or as the area of a circle of radius 1?

It seems easier to define it as the area of a unit circle, as we can then approximate to the value of PI.
 
vertigo said:
My question is this: is PI defined as the ratio of circumference to diameter, or as the area of a circle of radius 1?
Since the two are the same, it doesn't really matter. In practice, the ratio of diameter to circumference is much easier to deal with than the ratio of square of radius to area.
 
Historically, I believe the circumference to diameter ratio was the definition. Archimedes is reputed to have approximated pi by approximating the circumference by many sided polygons.
 
  • #10
Actually, Archimedes proved the important result that the constant of proportionality between the diameter and the circumference and the constant of proportionality between the squared radius and the circle's area was the same proportionality constant (pi).
(He showed that the area of the circle had to be equal the area of the right angled triangle with base equal to circumference and height equal to radius.)

He then proceeded as mathman says.
 
  • #11
I wouldn't use the word "reputed"! Archimedes definitely did approximate pi by using polygons with up to 96 sides. He did not (as I foolishly thought until recently) actually draw huge polygons and measure the sides! He developed an algorithm for calculating the length of a side of a polygon of 2n sides in terms of the length of side of a polygon of n sides inscribed in the same circle (96= 6*24 and the side of a hexagon is the same as the radius of the circle). He also developed an algorithm for finding upper and lower bounds on square roots since his other algorithm involved square roots. He showed that pi is between 223/71 and 22/7.
 

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