View Full Version : Most miserable cities
http://www.eukn.org/eukn/news/2008/02/us-miserable-cities_1008.html
Research shows that many Americans have to live in miserable cities. The economic indicator most often used to measure misery is the Misery Index. A Misery Score also exists, which is the sum of corporate, personal, employer and sales taxes in different countries. The US Magazine ´Forbes´argued that there are more factors causing Americans misery. It created the Forbes Misery Measure and composed a list of the most miserable cities in the United States.
Forbes Magazine created its own Misery Measure and produced a list of America´s most miserable cities. The Misery Measure is based on unemployment and personal tax rates, but also adds four more factors that can make people miserable: commute times, weather, crime and toxic waste dump in your backyard.
The number one on the list of the most miserable cities in the United States is Detroit, followed by Stockton and Flint. However, important economic centres such as New York and Los Angeles score high on the list, and are said to ´induce a ton of misery´.
I do not know if this is true or not, but why stop at US cities which do you think are the most miserable?
Edit by Moonbear (direct link to article):http://www.forbes.com/2008/01/29/detroit-stockton-flint-biz-cz_kb_0130miserable.html
Don't know, Woolie! Maine has few places that could qualify as cities, but there are many, many town in which our high tax rates, severe job losses, and severely depressed property values are killers. Millinocket is a case in point. It once hosted a mighty pulp and paper mill powered by hydro-dams on the Penobscot river. Now, it's an empty eyesore, the entire tax-base of the town has fallen on owners of residential properties, whose houses are worth nothing (no jobs, poor school system, etc) and who can't afford to move unless they find new jobs somewhere else and give up all the equity that they thought they were building in their homes, and start over. That's tough, because there were multiple layoffs at the mill, and the employees who were left were older people with seniority. Pretty hard to start over from square one at age 50-60 or so.
K.J.Healey
Feb11-08, 07:02 PM
I go to school in Detroit, and went to undergrad in Flint.
They are indeed miserable. The weather,traffic,roads, decrepit buildings, lack of anything even closely resembling a store within a mile of downtown, and political corruption are great.
Flint I'm thankful for though. I will never again, in any city in the world, be afraid of walking down a street at 4am after living for 4 years in Flint.
Math Is Hard
Feb11-08, 07:11 PM
No wonder I am miserable. I live in L.A.
but my poor brother lives in Stockton!
mgb_phys
Feb11-08, 07:16 PM
From my bit of the world - Doncaster or Hull
Thats why I live in Vancouver!
From my bit of the world - Doncaster or Hull
Thats why I live in Vancouver!
I just googled worst city in UK and that came up with Hull
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4136342.stm
No wonder I am miserable. I live in L.A.
but my poor brother lives in Stockton!
I thought LA was supposed to be glamorous?
I go to school in Detroit, and went to undergrad in Flint.
They are indeed miserable. The weather,traffic,roads, decrepit buildings, lack of anything even closely resembling a store within a mile of downtown, and political corruption are great.
Flint I'm thankful for though. I will never again, in any city in the world, be afraid of walking down a street at 4am after living for 4 years in Flint.I was hitchhiking to see a girlfriend in Levittown PA and ended up walking so much around NYC that I went to the Port Authority bus station and bought a ticket to Trenton. I can tell you that getting dropped off at the Penn Station in Trenton on a Saturday night at midnight in 1971 was an eye opener. I had my knapsack and my Gibson 12 string in one of those cheesy "alligator" cardboard cases, and the clothes on my back. I made my way to a phone booth on the curb and called my girlfriend and asked if she could get her older sister (who had a car) to pick me up. She asked "Where are you in Trenton?" and I said "At the train station." She asked "What train station?" and I didn't have a clue so I hollered out to a very nattily-dressed black guy on a bench overlooking the busy bar across the street "Hey, sir, what train station is this?" He grinned and hollered back "Penn Central - it's the onliest one!", so I said to Jacki "Penn Central - it's the onliest one!" As we said our goodbyes, the black guy said "Get on over here! Lets sit a spell!" and he proceeded to educate this back-wood hick about Trenton night-life. He'd point out a white limo with blacked-out windows with a wing-shaped antenna on the trunk, and he'd say "That's the Man!" and sure enough that limo would stop in front of that bar every 10-15 minutes or so, and someone would get out and someone else would get in. He was particularly keen on the activities of a very, very, pretty lady across the street named Darlene, and called her over to see if we'd hit it up, but just then a Pontiac Bonneville rounded the corner at a fairly high rate of speed and he jumped up and said "Holy Sh*t! That's a whole car-full of white pu$$y! Get out on the curb and get ready to jump!" I gathered up my stuff and got out to the curb and the Bonnie came around again and Jacki and and her sisters all hollered "GET IN THE CAR!!!" I jumped in and we squealed tires out of there like we were in a drag-race. I looked back at my new friend and he was rocking back and forth, slapping his hands on his thighs, laughing like he might have spasms. Trenton was OK.
I guess it's what you're used to. I could never live in NY city because I love open spaces, lots of grass and trees, privacy, quiet and no crowds.
There are people that grew up in NY city that love it because they have never known anything else. They think living in an apartment the size of most people's closet is normal and love the fact that there are crowds everywhere and don't even notice the pollution and noise.
I couldn't stand living in NYC and never actually enjoyed being there. Same with Philadelphia, Atlanta, Jacksonville, Houston, Indianapolis, Boston, etc, etc. I like to know my neighbors (they can drop in rarely, if they have something to exchange, etc) but not be surrounded by people. "Close" neighbors are people that live within 1/2 mile or so and have something in common. We have closer neighbors that we are not close to, and rarely speak to, but we have given coupons for discounts for New Balance shoes, etc. If we had a fire, accident, etc, they would be here in a a heartbeat. Others are geographically more distant, but even more committed if we need help. If I died tomorrow, I could rely on our neighbors to check our place, stop in and make sure my wife is OK, and help with firewood, storm-damaged trees, etc for free. We're pretty tight.
russ_watters
Feb11-08, 08:11 PM
I thought LA was supposed to be glamorous? It is. What does that have to do with how miserable it is?
New York is the same way. It's a big city and not everyone lives in Manhattan.
I'd say my favorite place to live was Ballston Spa, NY. Just south of Saratoga Springs at the bottom of the Adirondack Mountains. It was wooded, secluded, but I was able to put the girls in the car and drive through Bennington, Vermont, visit the museum with the gravesite of Robert Frost and up north through the mountains, beautiful views, or on Route 2 through the Berkshires on a whim and visit places like Wilmington. It was great fun.
russ_watters
Feb11-08, 08:20 PM
Trenton was OK. Yeah, Camden really isn't that bad either (they are basically two halves of the same city). The maintenance guy at a client in Camden says if you spend enough time on the roof at night changing filters in HVAC units, you eventually get used to the gunfire...
CaptainQuasar
Feb11-08, 08:22 PM
I could never live in NY city because I love open spaces, lots of grass and trees, privacy, quiet and no crowds.
I can't stand NYC because it's so slow. The old cliché is “In a New York minute” like things move really fast there but it seems like the exact opposite to me. You spend all of your time waiting for elevators or waiting to cross the street at every single block. And when you want to go somewhere that's only a few miles away it can take an hour whether you're on foot or in a car - there's just no way to get anywhere fast.
It's like living in a vat of molasses and it doesn't smell much better. :tongue2:
Give me a well-designed, rapid transit city like Houston with lots of downtown parking, nice city parks, and rare traffic jams. (But give me air conditioning along with Houston.) And Mexican pananderias, yummm.⚛
CaptainQuasar
Feb11-08, 08:31 PM
Yeah, Evo, Vermont and the Catskills are cool. I live in New Hampshire and pass through or visit them often. I don't know if you still live in this area but I must recommend Montreal and environs as well.⚛
It is. What does that have to do with how miserable it is?
New York is the same way. It's a big city and not everyone lives in Manhattan.
Well i am sure i do not know, i have never lived in a city or town, i just thought glamour went with happiness, the only time i ever go to town is to the dentists.
(But give me air conditioning along with Houston.) And Mexican pananderias, yummm.My girlfriend and I used to go to Canal Street to get the pumpkin pastries at the Panaderías y Pastelerías. (I used to live in Houston) You can't live in Houston without air conditioning, if only to remove the humidity so you aren't breathing water.
Yeah, Evo, Vermont and the Catskills are cool. I live in New Hampshire and pass through or visit them often. I don't know if you still live in this area but I must recommend Montreal and environs as well.I no longer live there and I really miss it.
CaptainQuasar
Feb11-08, 08:44 PM
My girlfriend and I used to go to Canal Street to get the pumpkin pastries at the Panaderías y Pastelerías. (I used to live in Houston)
Did you ever go to the Arandas Bakeries? So, so excellent.
And I have to admit that one cool thing about NYC, Manhattan at least, is the Au Bon Pains every few blocks that half-price all of their goodies in the evening every day. I have to make sure to not go on business trips to Manhattan too often lest I gain fifty pounds eating a danish or two every night.⚛
Did you ever go to the Arandas Bakeries? So, so excellent.I don't remember any names, but I can still taste them like it was yesterday. Not too sweet, definitely could taste the pumpkin, a bit of cinnamon. I haven't found them anywhere else in the US.
I remember when I moved to Washington DC and there was not a single Mexican restaurant, my parents would ship me "Care" packages of Mexican food.
Also, in Houston, I worked with Mexicans that had relatives just brought over the border and got treated to things like tamales made with freshly boiled pig's head. The real stuff. You can't get this stuff in restaurants in the US.
turbo, living in Maine, I don't think you've ever tasted authentic Mexican food.
Boiled pigs head, yuck that sounds so ww2 ration food.
Boiled pigs head, yuck that sounds so ww2 ration food.Not when it's turned into a delicacy by a Mexican Grandmother.
CaptainQuasar
Feb11-08, 09:13 PM
turbo, living in Maine, I don't think you've ever tasted authentic Mexican food.
In NH there's a chain called “La Carreta” that's run by Mexicans. It's authentic, albeit authentic restaurant food as opposed to the common man's food. And they've given in to the dark side and offer all kinds of silly fluorescent-colored Margaritas. But there's a giant replica of the Aztec Sun Stone (http://www.crystalinks.com/aztecalendar.html) and Spanish Villa decor, which makes up for that a little bit.⚛
CaptainQuasar
Feb11-08, 09:15 PM
Boiled pigs head, yuck that sounds so ww2 ration food.
Not at all, it's a delicacy around the world (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Head_cheese)!⚛
Astronuc
Feb11-08, 09:20 PM
I think cities have a mix of good and bad. There are a lot of positives (jobs, services, entertainment, museums, . . .) as well as negatives (crowds, noise, pollution, crime, . . .).
I live south and east of the Catskills, just outside of a small city/town. My office is in the city and it takes me about 12 minutes to from home to office by car.
In the NE, I have missed good Mexican food which is ubiquitous in Houston, but we recently discovered an authentic Mexican restaurant in our area, which is owned by a family who immigrated from Mexico about 30 years ago to the area. It's like Evo mentioned about the real thing.
Not at all, it's a delicacy around the world (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Head_cheese)!⚛In Mexican food, it's the meat on the head, primarily the cheek meat and around the ears which is considered the best tasting meat on the pig.
Head cheese is something different.
K.J.Healey
Feb11-08, 09:50 PM
I miss living in New Mexico if only for the Mexican food (And New-Mexican food. "Red or Green anyone?)
Thats another city that is sort of miserable, Albuquerque. It has a lot of nice places, restaurants, the mountains; lots of character. But man, I think that city has at least 4 seasons of COPS dedicated to it.
But I still miss it, and Sandia Labs. Maybe some day when I finish this PhD...
Gateshead high street is miserable :(. It sucks!
binzing
Feb11-08, 10:19 PM
Pig's head is classic food in Europe.
CaptainQuasar
Feb11-08, 10:20 PM
In Mexican food, it's the meat on the head, primarily the cheek meat and around the ears which is considered the best tasting meat on the pig.
Head cheese is something different.
It's processed as a cold cut, but it's the same parts of a pig's head. It said so on TV.⚛
Please no more pigs head, i remember Arildnos photo of one in another thread, you guys must have cast iron bellies.
In my family, head-cheese was treated as a highly-regarded cold-cut-type meat product, while other waste-meat products were just "food".
I guess it's what you're used to. I could never live in NY city because I love open spaces, lots of grass and trees, privacy, quiet and no crowds.
There are people that grew up in NY city that love it because they have never known anything else. They think living in an apartment the size of most people's closet is normal and love the fact that there are crowds everywhere and don't even notice the pollution and noise.
I love cities, and I hope to eventually move to a big city, maybe go to grad school in or near one of the country's bigger cities, but NEVER would I consider New York! There is just something about the city that makes it undesirable. I think it has something to do with the fact that it is TOO big, even for a big city lover like me. It's so big as to be hindering. Now, Boston or Chicago! Those are cities I would love to live in!
I love cities, and I hope to eventually move to a big city, maybe go to grad school in or near one of the country's bigger cities, but NEVER would I consider New York! There is just something about the city that makes it undesirable. I think it has something to do with the fact that it is TOO big, even for a big city lover like me. It's so big as to be hindering. Now, Boston or Chicago! Those are cities I would love to live in!If you like to drive, NEVER consider Boston!!!!!! Those people are the worst drivers in the world, and they are absolutely the rudest!! I can tell you that driving in rush-hour traffic in Manhattan is a piece of cake compared to driving in "The Hub" any normal working day. If you're going to be driving a lot in Boston on any given day, you'd better be driving a rental, and let the rental company decide who has to pay for the damage that the creep caused who side-swiped you.
CaptainQuasar
Feb11-08, 11:22 PM
I have to say, Houston bad drivers definitely beat out Boston's. There are lots of twelve-lane highways out there and the drivers are so accustomed to having an incredible amount of space around them that they don't feel obliged to drive in the same direction the road is going.⚛
CQ, when you are driving in Boston, you are driving on a spider-web-shaped net of roads that developed almost 300 years ago, and all the other drivers act like they hate you. You really have to experience Boston driving. This is the worst environment with the worst fellow-drivers that you can imagine. I have driven all over the US, (with the exception of the far-west with the stop and go traffic on the coastal highways,) and Boston is by FAR the suckiest place to drive in at least 4/5ths of the country. I have biker friends on the south side of Boston that would invite me and my wife down, and we would refuse every year. They would load up their Harleys on trailers and pickup-beds and come up to ride with us for 15-20 years over and over again. We wouldn't go there on a bet.
CaptainQuasar
Feb11-08, 11:39 PM
Yes, I've driven all over the country too. And I live in New Hampshire so I've driven in Boston lots. I'd agree that navigating in Boston is a pain in the butt, especially given that they don't seem to think street name signs are very important, but by my estimate Houston beat them for bad drivers.⚛
Ivan Seeking
Feb12-08, 12:20 AM
I grew up in LA and now hate all cities. But after twenty years of country living I have gotten so rural that when last at my sister's house in Sacramento, I was outside and almost took a pee in the yard!
Here in the sticks you pee wherever you want! :biggrin:
matthyaouw
Feb12-08, 04:52 AM
From my bit of the world - Doncaster or Hull
As a lifelong resident of Hull I must contest! Like any UK city it is not without its problems but it doesn't deserve the bad press it gets.
I'd voted for London where robbing of car parkers is legalized. Talking about cars in cities, of all Capitals I have driven in, Amsterdam, Bruxelles, Paris, London, Rome, Berlin, the most miserable to drive in is The Hague. Always changing road constructions send you into an urban forest of one way streets, always the wrong way.
Then again The Hague is also the greenest city I know, a plethora of parks, so you can enjoy the scenery on the many detours trying to find your destination.
turbo, living in Maine, I don't think you've ever tasted authentic Mexican food.For years I worked as a technical/training consultant to the pulp and paper industry, and during the time that I was self-employed in that field, most of my clients were in the deep south, ranging from Texas to Florida. I've had some pretty good Mexican food, including some little dives around San Antonio during one business trip. The best ever, though was at this dumpy-looking place on the north side of the causeway between Tampa and Clearwater. That was about 15 years back. The place was staffed by and frequented by Mexicans and the food was wonderful. I don't know if that place still exists, but given the number of patrons there every time I visited, I can't imagine that it has closed.
I'd voted for London where robbing of car parkers is legalized. Talking about cars in cities, of all Capitals I have driven in, Amsterdam, Bruxelles, Paris, London, Rome, Berlin, the most miserable to drive in is The Hague. Always changing road constructions send you into an urban forest of one way streets, always the wrong way.
Then again The Hague is also the greenest city I know, a plethora of parks, so you can enjoy the scenery on the many detours trying to find your destination.
I have only been to London twice, once on the train to visit the museums, and one time i had to drive three parts through it ,that was a nightmare, i bet i wore a millimeter off the tyres just trying to keep out of the way of those nutter drivers .
It's processed as a cold cut, but it's the same parts of a pig's head. It said so on TV.⚛Yes, it's a gelatinous loaf with parts from the pig's head, Andrew Zimmenr was chowing down on it the other night on Bizzarre Foods. I meant that the head meat cooked for tamales is completely different from how it's cooked for head cheese.
I think I ate head cheese when I was little, not sure, my mother used to but some starnge stuff at the deli. but blood sausage with tongue is wonderful.
Is this the food thread?:rolleyes: I used to love blood sausage pan-fried in butter alongside split flaky biscuits. That made a pretty tasty little breakfast sandwich.
I've been watching so many Travel Channel food shows that I now associate cities with food.
I just went through the Forbes list, and all I can say is, you can probably get any cities you want on such a list, by using a suitable set of criteria.
For me, any list of "miserable cities" that includes both Detroit and Charlotte, and does not include either Cleveland or (worse) Youngstown, Ohio, is suspicious.
Ivan Seeking
Feb12-08, 11:49 AM
I just went through the Forbes list, and all I can say is, you can probably get any cities you want on such a list, by using a suitable set of criteria.
For me, any list of "miserable cities" that includes both Detroit and Charlotte, and does not include either Cleveland or (worse) Youngstown, Ohio, is suspicious.
Funny, for a city I thought Charlotte was pretty nice.
Ivan Seeking
Feb12-08, 11:55 AM
My vote for America's worst city: Watts.
For a number of years I had to work at MLK hospital in Watts from time to time. We would park the mobile CT out back near the emergency entrance and do service and repairs at night. A cop once told me that I was crazy to be working there without a gun.
One night I was there alone and heard a gang coming through the parking lot. So I turned off the lights and kept very quiet while they passed. Fact is, had they seen me I may well be dead now. These guys will kill at the drop of a hat. In fact many gangs require that you kill someone as part of the initiation process.
Math Is Hard
Feb12-08, 12:11 PM
I thought LA was supposed to be glamorous?
It's a glamorous kind of misery.
Funny, for a city I thought Charlotte was pretty nice.
So so I... I should have made clear that I thought it odd, all by itself, that both Detroit and Charlotte were on the same list.
I watch local news from there on TV regularly, and it's full of crime reports, but that's true of TV news in most cities. I visit there occasionally, too. Charlotte doesn't have anything like the abandoned neighborhoods and empty blocks in Detroit and some other cities, and there's a good amount of activity downtown.
I grew up near Youngstown, Ohio, and drove through the city on my way north while traveling last summer. It was a very depressing experience. It looked like about half the buildings had been torn down along the main street heading into downtown, and an area that once contained steel mills was a big open field.
hypatia
Feb12-08, 01:11 PM
Cleveland has become a really nice city in the past 15 years. As downtowns go, its people friendly with sidewalk cafes open well into the night. The revamping of the train station was done very well, with artist and speciality shops. I enjoy going there.
CaptainQuasar
Feb12-08, 02:45 PM
Yes, it's a gelatinous loaf with parts from the pig's head, Andrew Zimmenr was chowing down on it the other night on Bizzarre Foods.
There's also a particularly gross How It's Made that covers all kinds of lunch meats (which is where I saw head cheese made.) Salami was interesting; it doesn't involve the application of heat at all, it's essentially cooked chemically by various kinds of mold.⚛
Salami was interesting; it doesn't involve the application of heat at all, it's essentially cooked chemically by various kinds of mold.⚛:bugeye: I didn't need to know that.
Moonbear
Feb12-08, 03:59 PM
I grew up near Youngstown, Ohio, and drove through the city on my way north while traveling last summer. It was a very depressing experience. It looked like about half the buildings had been torn down along the main street heading into downtown, and an area that once contained steel mills was a big open field.
I was in Youngstown last year (I think it was last year). Definitely miserable. A friend was trapped there for business for a week (mostly twiddling his fingers waiting for a paranoid client to let him see the documents he traveled there to see :rolleyes:), and since I live a reasonable drive to there, I visited to keep him company.
My primary impression of the town was "OMG! There isn't a fast food or chain restaurant they don't have!" Really, we tried really hard to think of one we couldn't find, and a drive in one direction or another would turn it up. And that's ALL they seemed to have. We asked at the hotel if there were any restaurants that weren't chains. There were two they recommended. The one was decent, nothing special (probably would have been better if they weren't obviously cutting corners on food quality to remain competitive with cheap chain restaurants), and the other I didn't go to, but my friend reported back when he went another night that it seemed to be a chain in the making...the menu was written up like all the chain menus were, like they were getting ready to start franchising it, and said the food was terrible. But, hey, they had a mall and a movie theater.
CaptainQuasar
Feb12-08, 05:26 PM
Yeah, Youngstown is miserable. No wonder the Mound People couldn't bring themselves to do much more than build piles of dirt (http://www.mysteriousworld.com/Journal/2003/Spring/SerpentMound/).
I found Detroit to be quite miserable. The one time I was there during the winter, 2004 I think, the city evidently didn't have enough money to plow the sidewalks in the downtown, so everybody just walked over filthy mounds of snow and ice. The pristine and pastoral Canadian farm country just across the border has constant smog warnings and billboards advertising casinos up all over the place because they're too close to Detroit. A great one a Detroiter told me is,“Detroit was founded by New Yorkers who said to themselves, ‘Gee, I'm enjoying all the crime and poverty but it's really not cold enough.’”⚛
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