Area of a Hyperboloid in a Sphere: Calculating the Integral

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around calculating the area of a hyperboloid within a sphere of radius 2. Participants explore the mathematical formulation of the hyperboloid and its intersection with the sphere, discussing the appropriate integral to compute the area and addressing potential discrepancies in their approaches.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a parameterization of the hyperboloid and proposes an integral for the area based on the cross product of derivatives.
  • Another participant suggests checking hyperbolic identities to validate the formulae presented.
  • A different approach is introduced, approximating the hyperboloid with cylinders and deriving an area formula based on this approximation.
  • Concerns are raised about the accuracy of the cylindrical approximation due to the curvature of the surface, leading to a challenge of the area element used.
  • One participant questions the validity of the cylindrical approach, suggesting that as the height of the cylinder approaches zero, the curvature should not pose an issue.
  • Participants discuss integration techniques for the proposed integral, with one suggesting a substitution involving hyperbolic functions.
  • Another participant identifies a potential error in the cylindrical approach regarding the tangent vectors used to compute the area element.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the validity of the cylindrical approximation for the hyperboloid's area, with some supporting the original parameterization while others challenge its accuracy. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the best approach to calculate the area.

Contextual Notes

Participants have not reached consensus on the correct method for calculating the area, and there are unresolved questions about the assumptions underlying the cylindrical approximation and the integration techniques discussed.

LostInSpace
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Hi! I'm supposed to find the area of a hyperboloid within a sphere with the radius 2. The hyperboloid and the sphere intersect at [tex]\sqrt{\frac{3}{2}}[/tex] and the intersecting curve is a circle with the radius [tex]\sqrt{\frac{5}{2}}[/tex]. The hyperboloid is defined as
[tex] \left\lbrace\begin{array}{lcl}<br /> x &=& \sqrt{1+t^2}\cos\varphi \\<br /> y &=& \sqrt{1+t^2}\sin\varphi \\<br /> z &=& t<br /> \end{array}\right.[/tex]
where [tex]-\sqrt{\frac{3}{2}} \le t \le \sqrt{\frac{3}{2}}[/tex] and [tex]0 \le \varphi < 2\pi[/tex]. The area is given by the integral of the crossproduct of the derivates of t and [tex]\varphi[/tex]over an area:
[tex] A = \iint_{\Omega}\left|\frac{\partial f}{\partial t}\times\frac{\partial f}{\partial\varphi}\right|\mathrm{d}t\mathrm{d}\varphi[/tex]

Which yields
[tex] A = \iint_{\Omega}\sqrt{2t^2 + 1}\mathrm{d}u\mathrm{d}t = 2\pi\int_a^b\sqrt{2t^2 + 1}\mathrm{d}t[/tex]
where a and b are the limits of t.

Is this correct? Then what? How can I calculate the final integral?

Thanks in advance!
 
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I believe your formulae are correct. Check up hyperbolic identities..
 
Ok... I was thinking about something like this as well:

The hyperboloid can be defined as
[tex] \lbrace (x,y,z) \mid x^2 + y^2 - z^2 = 1 \rbrace[/tex]

This set can be approximated by cylinders as
[tex] \lim_{n\rightarrow\infty}\bigcup_{i=0}^n \lbrace (x,y) \mid x^2 + y^2 = 1 + z_i^2, z_i \le z \le z_i + \Delta z \rbrace[/tex]

The area of each cylinder is [tex]2\pi\sqrt{1+z_i^2}\Delta z[/tex], so
[tex] A = \lim_{n\rightarrow\infty}2\pi\sum_{i=0}^n\sqrt{1+z_i^2}\Delta z = 2\pi\int_a^b\sqrt{z^2 + 1}\mathrm{d}t[/tex]

This is roughly the same, but roughly isn't very good... is this wrong?

Thanks in advance!
 
It's wrong, because the side of your "cylinder" is slightly curved, that's why you get a different area element.
 
Are you sure about this? The height of the cylinder [tex]\Delta z \rightarrow 0[/tex], so the curve shouldn't be any problem. Or should it?

Anyway, I assume you are right, but I just wanted to test this. But how do you integrate
[tex] \int_a^b \sqrt{2t^2+1}\mathrm{d}t[/tex]

I tried to set [tex]t = \sinh s \Rightarrow \mathrm{d}t = \cosh s\mathrm{d}s[/tex]:
[tex] \int_a^b 2\pi\sqrt{\mathrm{2\sinh^2 s + 1}}\cosh s\mathrm{d}s = 2\pi\int_a^b \sqrt{\cosh 2s}\cosh s\mathrm{d}s[/tex]

I honestly can't get any further! Please help!

Thanks in advance!
 
Hmm, I thought about that myself today, so I went back to your first post, but at the moment, I can't figure out why your answers differ.
As to the integration, simply set u=sqrt(2)*t, and later on substitute u=sinh(s).
 
I've got it: In your cylindrical approach, you basically use the tangent vectors:
T1=sqrt(1+z^(2))(-sin(w),cos(w),0), T2=(0,0,1).
But T2 is NOT a tangent vector to the surface area!
(T1 is, though)
The true tangent vector makes an angle cos(a)=sqrt((1+z^(2))/(1+2z^(2))) to the vertical.
We then have that the proper area element dA fulfill the relation:
dAcos(a)=dS,
where dS is the cylinder area element (having the vertical as a tangent)
 

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