What Are Alternative Photon Models and Their Implications?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around alternative models of photons and their implications for understanding light propagation. Participants explore various hypothetical models, including comparisons to sound propagation and the effects of blocking light, while considering experimental approaches to test these ideas.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes a "bullet model" of light, suggesting that light behaves like a bullet with finite speed, which can be stopped after emission.
  • Another model introduced is the "time-bomb model," where light reaches its destination instantly but has a delayed effect, raising questions about observable consequences of such a model.
  • A participant suggests that experiments could be conducted using lunar mirrors to test these models, specifically by attempting to block light at a midpoint.
  • Further ideas include variations on the bullet model, such as a "rubber string" model, where light is connected to its source and could exhibit different behaviors if interrupted.
  • There is a mention of afterimages when blocking light, leading to questions about whether this phenomenon could be attributed to light behavior rather than just biological processes.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express various models and ideas without reaching a consensus. There are competing views on the nature of light and its propagation, and the discussion remains unresolved regarding the validity of the proposed models.

Contextual Notes

Some assumptions about the nature of light and the feasibility of proposed experiments are not fully explored. The discussion includes speculative models that may not align with established physics.

wespe
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(ok. I haven't given up with the relativity wrong thread. This is just something I'm thinking on meanwhile). Also please excuse my english as it is not my mother tounge.

ok, for a moment let's forget about the wavelike properties of light (I had some ideas to explain light propagation like sound propagation in air, which involved a photon gas aether).

so, first, there's the simple bullet model. It is possible to stop the bullet after it has left the source and before it reaches the destination because of its finite speed. We normally assume this is so with light.

Now suppose the speed is infinite, but the delay between emitted and received light remains the same. A time-bomb model could explain this. That is, the bullet hits the destination instantly, but explodes after a delay proportional to the distance. In this model, it is not possible to stop the bullet once it has left its source. So we need an experiment to check this. And there is this mirror placed on the moon which laser beams are being sent to and received back from. Would we have not noticed if there was such a time-bomb effect? Maybe. I don't know if anyone tried to block light and check if it was really blocked or not, but for a noticable effect this must be done at some mid point between mirror and source, after the light is emitted. Satellites in orbit can be used. I'm suggesting that such an experiment must be performed at once. (but of course, I'm lazy and shouldn't be involved. I'll appreciate if any of you have some connections to some observatory or NASA:smile:)

ok, next model. This one is similar to the simple bullet model, except the bullet is connected to the source by a rubber string, and its has double speed. Once this bullet hits the destination, a second bullet at the other end of the string is released, and they explode on collision. Now, if we try to block light at a mid point, the string would be broken and then what? Maybe two half-photons(?) would be detected at both source and destination or something. My point is, this effect is again unnoticable if we're not deliberately looking for it, so someone should.

There can be lot of models like this. For example a combination of simple bullet and time-bomb, where the speed is not infinite but still greater than c, and the delay timing is appropriately compansated. Likewise with the rubber string model, various speeds are possible greater than c up to infinite for the first bullet. Or, there can more than two bullets involved.

Ok, that's all for now, thank you for your time. I wanted to share these ideas.
 
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wespe said:
So we need an experiment to check this. And there is this mirror placed on the moon which laser beams are being sent to and received back from. Would we have not noticed if there was such a time-bomb effect? Maybe. I don't know if anyone tried to block light and check if it was really blocked or not, but for a noticable effect this must be done at some mid point between mirror and source, after the light is emitted. Satellites in orbit can be used. I'm suggesting that such an experiment must be performed at once. (but of course, I'm lazy and shouldn't be involved. I'll appreciate if any of you have some connections to some observatory or NASA:smile:)

You are carrying out this experiment every time you hold your hand up to keep the sun out of your eyes.

Matt
 
wespe said:
Yes, but there IS an afterimage whenever I do that. Surely it has something to do with the eye or brain, but how do you know a very small part of it is not due to a light phenomenon? :smile:

Ok, how about starlight then? :wink:

Matt
 
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