Mathematical problem is classical question

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the interpretation of the kinematic equation \(2as = v^2 - u^2\) and the implications of negative values for acceleration (a), initial velocity (u), and displacement (s) in a real-world context. Participants explore the conditions under which the resulting velocity (v) can be real or complex, and the significance of sign conventions in these calculations.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant derives \(v = \sqrt{2as + u^2}\) and notes that a negative value for \(2as\) leads to a complex result for v, questioning if v should also be negative.
  • Another participant suggests that if both acceleration (a) and initial velocity (u) are negative, then the resulting velocity (v) should also be real and negative.
  • Concerns are raised about the sign of displacement (s) and its impact on the overall equation.
  • Some participants argue that a negative \(2as\) indicates the body is slowing down, but it cannot exceed the magnitude of \(u^2\), implying a reversal of direction once the body stops.
  • There is a suggestion to explicitly show a specific problem to identify any sign errors in the calculations, with references to hints provided by other participants.
  • One participant posits that both negative and positive results could be valid due to the squaring of values in the equation.
  • Another participant asserts that if all coordinates (u, a, s) are negative, then \(2as\) becomes positive, leading to a positive \(v^2\) and negating the need for complex answers.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications of negative values in the equation, with no consensus reached on whether the resulting velocity should be considered complex or real. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the proper interpretation of signs in the context of the kinematic equation.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight potential limitations in their reasoning, including assumptions about the signs of variables and the conditions under which the equation is applied. There are unresolved mathematical steps regarding the implications of negative values and their effects on the outcome.

dE_logics
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From the formula 2as = v2 - u2

I made v the subject...and it becomes -

(2as+u2)1/2 = v


Problem is real world value of 2as is negative...as a result it makes a complex answer...but actually its not; instead the value of v should also come negative.

Here a, u are negative...and a force applies on the body in the same direction as u, which is negative, as a result a negative a cause of that very force.

So the v should also be real and negative...but its coming as complex :confused:

Say...can I take the a and u to be positive initially and add the negative sign to the result...sounds ok to me.
 
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[tex]v=\pm \sqrt{2as+u^2}[/tex]
 
dE_logics said:
Here a, u are negative...and a force applies on the body in the same direction as u, which is negative, as a result a negative a cause of that very force.

How about the sign of s?
 
Yeah its too negative.

But that way the value that comes by is positive, but it should be negative.
 
Last edited:
dE_logics said:
Yeah its too negative.

But that way the value that comes by is positive, but it should be negative.

See Phrak's response
 
dE_logics said:
From the formula 2as = v2 - u2

I made v the subject...and it becomes -

(2as+u2)1/2 = vProblem is real world value of 2as is negative...as a result it makes a complex answer...but actually its not; instead the value of v should also come negative.

Here a, u are negative...and a force applies on the body in the same direction as u, which is negative, as a result a negative a cause of that very force.

So the v should also be real and negative...but its coming as complex :confused:

Say...can I take the a and u to be positive initially and add the negative sign to the result...sounds ok to me.

Show this explicitly in a specific problem and we will show you where you forgot another sign somewhere. Both Phrak and atyy have given you sufficient hints.

Zz.
 
dE_logics said:
Problem is real world value of 2as is negative...as a result it makes a complex answer...
When 2as is negative that means the body is slowing down. But a negative value of 2as cannot have a magnitude greater than u²--once the body slows to zero it must reverse direction.
 
Doc Al said:
When 2as is negative that means the body is slowing down. But a negative value of 2as cannot have a magnitude greater than u²--once the body slows to zero it must reverse direction.

It is accelerating, but all the coordinates are negative, I mean...the u, a and s are all negative.
 
davieddy said:
See Phrak's response

ZapperZ said:
Show this explicitly in a specific problem and we will show you where you forgot another sign somewhere. Both Phrak and atyy have given you sufficient hints.

Zz.

Ok then...both negative and positive results will be valid?...I mean...that's true when a value is squared.
 
  • #10
dE_logics said:
It is accelerating, but all the coordinates are negative, I mean...the u, a and s are all negative.
So then what is the issue? 2as is positive, thus v² = u² + 2as is positive. No complex answers required.

(Realize that this equation only gives you the magnitude of v; the sign is up to you.)
 

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