Infinite Self-Energy of a Charged Point Particle

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of infinite self-energy associated with charged point particles, exploring both classical and quantum perspectives. Participants examine the implications of these infinities, potential resolutions through different theories, and the mathematical challenges posed by singularities in physical theories.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants speculate that the infinite self-energy arises from the dimensionless nature of point particles, suggesting that string theory may offer a resolution by eliminating point-like entities.
  • There is a question regarding whether singularities are inherent in all mathematical theories of physical phenomena, indicating a potential debate on the nature of singularities.
  • One participant references Griffiths' "Introduction to Electrodynamics," noting that the infinite energy of a point charge is a recurring issue in both classical and quantum electromagnetic theory.
  • Participants discuss the concept of renormalization, with one asserting that it can be applied in classical physics similarly to quantum physics, although the specifics of classical renormalization are questioned.
  • A participant provides a mathematical expression related to the motion of a charged particle, illustrating how the self-energy leads to divergences and the concept of effective or renormalized mass.
  • Another participant shares an experience with the heavy electron problem, discussing vacuum polarization and its effects on electric fields near nuclei, referencing the Uehling integral as a solution validated by experimental evidence.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

The discussion contains multiple competing views regarding the nature of infinities and singularities, as well as the applicability of renormalization in classical contexts. No consensus is reached on the resolution of these issues.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty about the mechanisms behind the infinite self-energy in quantum mechanics compared to classical electromagnetism. There are also unresolved questions regarding the applicability and examples of classical renormalization.

Himanshu
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Recently I became acquainted with the problem of Infinite Self-Energy of a Charged Point Particle as described by both classical and quantum theory. Infinities of this kind certainly hint at the inconsistency and incompleteness of the theory itself. I was speculating that infinity is arising dew to the dimensionless nature of the particle. But in the context of string theory this issue could have been resolved as we now do no longer have to deal with point particles. I was wondering if this issue has been resolved by other theories.
 
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How are the singularities get resolved, I thought singularities are inherent in every mathematical theory of physical phenomena, is it not?
 
Himanshu, what references were you reading? I understood that particular classical infinity becomes zero in quantum mechanics.
 
You can "renormalize" in classical physics just like you do in quantum physics. Of course, there are no problems at all with classical continuum mechanics.
 
cesiumfrog said:
Himanshu, what references were you reading? I understood that particular classical infinity becomes zero in quantum mechanics.

I am referring to Griffiths- Introduction to Electrodynamics. The book says that the infinite energy of a point charge is a reccuring source of embarassment for electromagnetic theory afflicting quantum version as well as the classical. I have no Idea about how the self-energy becomes infinite in the context of QM, but in classical EM theory its a straightforward calculation.
 
Stingray said:
You can "renormalize" in classical physics just like you do in quantum physics. Of course, there are no problems at all with classical continuum mechanics.

Do you have any example of a problem that can be solved classically by renormalisation?
 
cesiumfrog said:
Do you have any example of a problem that can be solved classically by renormalisation?

The typical place where the self-energy of a point charge is considered is in deriving the motion of such an object. Roughly, you get an equation that looks like

[tex] m a = q E - (q^2 / r) a + \ldots[/tex]

for a body with charge q and radius r. The first term is the ordinary force on a charged particle. The second is due to the inertia of its self-field. Rearranging,

[tex] (m + q^2/r) a = q E + \ldots[/tex]

The left-hand side diverges if r is shrunk while keeping q and m fixed. So you say that only [itex]m + q^2/r[/itex] is observable. That's the effective or renormalized mass. You imagine that m is infinitely negative in order to get a finite sum.

This is closely analogous to things done in QFT. The difference is that the real classical theory has objects with finite r. The mass still shifts (so it may be said to "renormalize"), but there are no infinities that get swept away.
 
Many years ago I had to solve the problem of a heavy electron (like the negative muon) in bound atomic orbits around nuclei. This is a two body problem, because the muon is inside (nearly) all the electron cloud. When the muon is within a few Fermi of the nucleus, the electric field is so strong that it can create virtual electron-positron pairs (vacuum polarization) (within the limits of the uncertainty principal), and modify the one-over-r^2 dependence of the electric field. This was solved using the Uehling integral (Phys Rev, about 1937). The Uehling integral has been validated with both muonic and pionic atoms, and (I think) electron scattering. The cloud of virtual electrons and positrons in vacuum polarization shield the bare (un-normalized) charge.
 
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