Ronal Reagan Dies

[check]

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/06/05/reagan.health/index.html

Fmr. President Ronald Reagan passed away today at the age of 93.

Very sad, but it’s been expected for some time. I think he was a very good president. What are your thoughts?

[Ivan Seeking]

No matter how anyone may feel about the man politically, I am convinced that Reagan was a very good man. After the long dark night of Vietnam, and then Nixon and Watergate, Reagan inspired a generation of young Americans [like me] to renew their faith in our system.

I have always found it amazing that for all of his "Evil Empire" rhetoric, he and Gorbachev became great friends.

[Robert Zaleski]

"Good night sweet prince, and flights of angels sing thee to thy rest".

[DarkAnt]

I personally believe Ronald Regan died years ago, well at least the person known as Ronald Regan. It must be tough caring for someone that you've known almost all your life and yet that person can't even remember your name.

[edit] wow i can't spell

[GENIERE]

One of the few great ones.

[Janitor]

Ronald Reagan was the second-most religious president, after Jimmy Carter, among the ones who were president during my lifetime. All presidents have net worths above a million dollars. (Our major political parties simply do not nominate barbers or mail carriers for president.) I sometimes wonder how Christian presidents square their own personal wealth with the disdain Jesus expressed for "filthy lucre."

[Ivan Seeking]

Ronald Reagan was the second-most religious president, after Jimmy Carter, among the ones who were president during my lifetime. All presidents have net worths above a million dollars. (Our major political parties simply do not nominate barbers or mail carriers for president.) I sometimes wonder how Christian presidents square their own personal wealth with the disdain Jesus expressed for "filthy lucre."

Loosely quoted, it is harder for a rich man to go to heaven than it is for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle.... but in Gods eyes all things are possible. Your objection was noted 2000 years ago. Thank goodness for really skinny camels! :smile:

I was thinking about something that Carter said. At first I thought this was at the inauguration for Reagan, but now I'm thinking that this was at Nixon’s funeral. After listening to Reagan give a most eloquent and uplifting speech, like only Reagan could, when it was his turn to speak, Carter commented: "I have never understood more clearly than now why I lost the election".

[Evo]

Reagan said he would make changes and cut through the red tape, and he did more of that than any other president in recent history. That was what impressed me.

I think he did as much as anyone coming into that office at that time could do.

[Tom Mattson]

Goodbye to the Gipper, my favorite President in recent history.

[Nommos Prime (Dogon)]

Ronald Reagan dies;

Good (one less career war-criminal to worry about).

[Loren Booda]

He projected public charisma through apparent personal acknowledgement. I voted twice against the man. Ten years of Alzheimers deserves compassion rather than a cheap label of war criminal. Nommos Prime (Dogon), what recent US president would you deem not worthy of that calumny?

[schwarzchildradius]

Reagan had a successful policy of economic isolation and containment for socialist governments like the USSR and Iraq, honored by George HW Bush and Bill Clinton. Too bad that the current president utterly rejects Ronald Reagan and his foreign policies.

[adrenaline]

I always thought Reagan was ahead of his time. He was somewhat libertarian in his views (i'm not libertarian) years before the party was formed. I think he respected women and shuddered at the senseless deaths that occurred with illegal abortion. I believe he was the first governor to sign for legalized abortion after Roe vs Wade. Then, there were some of the toughest antipollution laws passed while he was governor of california. But of course, there was also the Ollie North fiasco and perhaps some questionable policies dealing with Central America during his presidency.....oh well, no one is perfect.

[Nommos Prime (Dogon)]

Loren Booda;

I would deem NONE worthy.

Every single President of the USA (since World War II ended) has been guilty of outright war crimes against humanity (usually against the “coloured” Races).
Its cold hard FACT.

Noam Chomsky has said the above in similar words on many occasions, and he’s right.

Look into it, people.

Puppet Dictators in South America, Sponsored Terrorism, War and Genocide through most of Asia, Mercenaries in Africa etc. etc. etc.

The USA (Fourth Reich).

Oh yeh, my favourite "famous" description of Reagan was;
"THE LUCKY SIMPLETON".
Very apt.

[Nommos Prime (Dogon)]

Ok. First, I’ll illustrate past USA Policy towards the Asiatic Races (It remains the same, to this day…);

First, from one of your “esteemed” Presidents, who in fact was instrumental in the whole charade;

“Unless the United States has unchallengeable air power, we shall be hostage to every yellow dwarf with a pocket knife.”
- President Lyndon Baines Johnson (I believe this was said to the Senate, no less…)
(I don’t think anybody can deny that this is the ranting of a racist megalomaniac..)

Now, from one of your great Authors, Mathematicians and Philosophers;

“With the exception of the extermination of the Jews, however, everything that the Germans did in Eastern Europe has been repeated by the United States in Vietnam on a scale which is larger and with an efficiency which is more terrible and more complete.”
- Bertrand Russell, “War Crimes In Vietnam”, Page 121 (1967).
Hmmm, yes. Again, hard to find fault in those comments…

And, one more, from another USA Citizen (with Israeli heritage), Mr Noam Chomsky (great linguist, political analyst and philosopher);

“Coming generations will pay the costs. That is the legacy of these years, even if we permit ourselves not to see the misery and torture of our victims throughout much of the world.”
- Noam Chomsky, “Deterring Democracy”, Page 87 (1992).
Yes, we are starting to see something like this occur…

USA Policy towards the South/Latin Americans;

“We saw North American tanks roll over the dead.”
- Rafael Olivardia (Refugee Spokesman for the El Chorillo neighbourhood in Panama).
Sheesshh…Hard to argue with that bluntness. Panama should have just given up ALL RIGHTS to their Canal. Would have saved them an invasion an occupation…

Now, back to that Cowboy, Reagan;

I’ll finish with a couple of your “wonderful” Mr Reagan’s famous policies.
Gorby (at the moment) is being very diplomatic about Reagan’s death. But in reality, their relationship was more like this;
“Those Pershing missiles were like a loaded gun placed to our head.”
- Mikhail Gorbachev

And Reagan is hailed as being part of the reason for the Berlin Wall coming down? Please…

And, who will ever forget, Star Wars (to deal with the ET threat of attack).

Not me.

I love those comments he made in the UN.
About the most sensible things he ever said…

[revelator]

Now that Mr. Reagan is dead, his fans will try to talk him up and make him seem better than he actually was. And his detractors are going to berate him and his policies and try to make him seem like a monster.

In fact, as with most people, he was probably somewhere in between. He was not the greatest president ever, and at the same time he's no tyrant.

My personal opinion? He's leagues better than most of the recent boobs, the Americans have called president. But as with most American presidents, he leaves a lot to be desired.

[Nommos Prime (Dogon)]

Carter, at least, was a Nuclear Physicist (His ONLY saving grace...)

[Nommos Prime (Dogon)]

Not me mate.
I've always said that he was a war criminal (and an idiot).
Only a fool (or a Monkey) would try to defend the IQ (or policies) of that "Movie Star".

[revelator]

Haha, as I recall he once made a comment about trees being the cause of pollution.

[revelator]

Does anyone know of any other country that has the habit of electing their movie stars to office? Or is this more of a result of the celebrity obsessed american culture?

[Nommos Prime (Dogon)]

The rest of the world could be forgiven for thinking that USA (and Australian) politicans still think that.
A small matter of the Kyoto Protocol.

There I go again (rambling).

No doubt, I'm in for another verbal castigation from our resident war-crime, "MIGHT IS RIGHT" apologist...

Movie Stars, elected?
I think the Italians elected that topless Porn-Star...(still had more intellect than Reagan).

Politics, South American/European-Style;
http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_741384.html?menu=news.latestheadlines
http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_873399.html
Movie Stars, Porn Stars, what’s the difference?

[revelator]

Note the aforementioned apologist doesn't try to refute any of your comments, but simply passes it off as "mental masturbation".

As I see it, let the apologists keep trying to justify american military actions, all whilst asking "Why do they hate us?"

[Nommos Prime (Dogon)]

The guy never does!
And if he does (He's ALWAYS wrong!)

He must be a spin-docteur working for the Admin.
If not, he's one bored bastard.

The Nazis always had good propaganda to back up their "justifiable aggression" as well.
In fact, looking back, their policies were FAIRER! (And thats saying SOMETHING!)

[revelator]

He must be a spin-docteur working for the Admin.


Heh, not necessarily. For some reason or another, there seems to be many americans who think their admin is doing the right thing?

Perhaps it's because many americans like the high they get from thinking of themselves as "America the liberator".

This is off topic, but there was an article in the Toronto Star today about how the Pope gave Georgie a diplomatic "I told you so" over Iraq, Abu Ghraib and the continuing threat of terrorism. All the while a massive protest was being held, telling Bush to go home, he's not welcome in Rome. All this, while Bush was there to commemorate D-Day. It seems, gratitude for American involvement in WWII, isn't even enough to stem the tide of anger directed at Dubya.

[Nommos Prime (Dogon)]

I think the Pope probably said something to the effect;
"Don't you dare claim to be a Catholic/Christian."

Muppet Bush isn't welcome anywhere in the world (except his own Nation).
The Pope can travel any (Christian) nation in the world, and be welcomed.

By the way, you Canadians must hate sharing a border with the Americans. Do they have many (illegal) Military Bases in your Nation?

[revelator]

One doesn't have to be Christian to love and respect the Pope. As an agnostic (as should any person of ethic) have nothing but the deepest respect for the Pope.

[Nommos Prime (Dogon)]

Me and my brothers were Altar Boys (Roman Catholic) for Cardinal Morgan in Canberra, Australia.
18 years of enforced religion was enough for me.

I'd have more repect for the Pope, if he released the Third Secret of Fatima.

Although, he seems to have more "life" left in him, than the Muppet.

[revelator]

By the way, you Canadians must hate sharing a border with the Americans. Do they have many (illegal) Military Bases in your Nation?


I am not aware of very many bases in the country, but I am not very informed on the matter, so don't take my word for it.

I can say I do indeed dislike my proximity to the USA, and I am aware of other Canadians who share the sentiment. Although let it be said, it's not because of the American people. The Americans I meet tend to be good, honest, people.

Let me say however, that despite all that's happened since 9/11, our border is insecure. I know of areas on the East Coast where you can walk right into the USA from Canada, unnoticed. Believe me, I've done it by accident. Didn't even realize until I started noticing Maine highway signs. :eek:

[revelator]

What is the Third Secret of Fatima? If you can't answer because it isn't known, then what is it supposed to pertain to? Or perhaps a better question is, What are the First and Second secrets of Fatima?

Ha, it was enforced religion that made me agnostic. I came to realize, as a mere human that I know nothing of God, and whether or not He exists. And should He exist, I have no wish to insult him, by claiming that my paltry human mind can know anything of Him or His will.

[Nommos Prime (Dogon)]

revelator wrote;
"I know of areas on the East Coast where you can walk right into the USA from Canada, unnoticed. Believe me, I've done it by accident. Didn't even realize until I started noticing Maine highway signs."

Sounds like a good way to get that new Afghan "produce" on the streets, to fund that "War on Terrorism".

[Nommos Prime (Dogon)]

The Vatican would have us believe, this is it;
http://www.marianland.com/thirdsec.html
http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20000626_message-fatima_en.html

However, it certainly isn't...

[revelator]

Possibly, but I generally prefer to stay here in Canada.

As a liberal, leftie, pinko communist, tree hugging hippie, I can say we've got better "produce" right here anyway. :).

BTW, thanks very much for the links. I always appreciate interesting reading, while on the job.

[Nommos Prime (Dogon)]

Yeh, I like the Mull as well.
In fact ANY Natural drug does the trick.

Shrooms are good in Canada...

[revelator]

Nommos, have you ever been to visit Canada?

[kat]

The guy never does!
And if he does (He's ALWAYS wrong!)

He must be a spin-docteur working for the Admin.
If not, he's one bored bastard.

The Nazis always had good propaganda to back up their "justifiable aggression" as well.
In fact, looking back, their policies were FAIRER! (And thats saying SOMETHING!)

Unbelievable, did you say you're from Australia or Austria?

[phatmonky]

Shrooms are good in Canada...

Well, a lot of things about your thinking just became incredibly clear.

[Nommos Prime (Dogon)]

Yeh, phatmonkey.
Your ignorance becomes clearer each day, too mate...

Natural drugs aren't bad.
Its the manufactured ones you have to watch.

But I suppose, you'd have us believe you've never tried marijuana?

Or maybe, (like Mr Clinton) you tried it once (BUT DIDN'T INHALE).
Answer whether you have?
I HAVE (AND STILL DO SMOKE AND TAKE SHROOMS).
So what?

Its a liberating, spiritual and mind-expanding experience.
But you'd probably believe the Admin's "spin", and then sign up to be a USAF Fighter Pilot (But then, you would be prescribed LEGAL SPEED (better than street-quality), and YOU'D HAVE TO TAKE IT, just in order to fly).

[kat]

Bizarre.....

[revelator]

Its a liberating, spiritual and mind-expanding experience.


And sometimes a little bit scary too, heh. I have found though that mushrooms can greatly enhance one's sense of empathy.

But you'd probably believe the Admin's "spin", and then sign up to be a USAF Fighter Pilot (But then, you would be prescribed LEGAL SPEED (better than street-quality), and YOU'D HAVE TO TAKE IT, just in order to fly).

And then when it's time to sleep you get treated to a dosage of legal downers. Now that's real smart, subjecting your pilots to conflicting drugs. Uppers to stay awake, downers to go to sleep. I wonder if you (not any one person in particular) have any idea the stress that can put on the human. That's one of the astounding things of America, you can't smoke a plant that occurs in nature, but you can get your soldiers hopped up on the manufactured concoctions of pharmaceutical giants. GO AMERICA!

I'll also add that, (here in Canada at least), there was a lot of outrage over some hopped up, trigger happy, American pilots, who saw fit to drop bombs on a squadron of Canadians doing night exercises. American incompetence summed up in the media friendy term, friendy-fire. Just one more reason not to join America in it's misadventures.

[Nommos Prime (Dogon)]

Yep, revelator, you are SPOT ON!

Uppers, downers, uppers, downers.
Everybody knows this is STUPID!

And DRUGS (prescribed SPEED) is the COMMON FACTOR in ALL FRIENDLY- FIRE INCIDENTS with USAF.

[revelator]

It really says a lot for the American war on drugs. Double-speak, that's all it is. Very Orwellian. I suppose this is what you get when your politicians are in bed with corporate giants, and to an extent consist of the corporate elite.

I hope to live long enough to see what the history books have to say about 20th and 21st century America. Provided of course, it's not the American's who write, but what are the odds of that?

[phatmonky]

Yeh, phatmonkey.
Your ignorance becomes clearer each day, too mate...

Natural drugs aren't bad.
Its the manufactured ones you have to watch.

But I suppose, you'd have us believe you've never tried marijuana?





Hahahaha, I could sit here and run off to you the effects of psilocybin on your neurological system, but of course because it's 'natural' it can't hurt you.

And it's quite hilarious that some people are so deep into using drugs that they assume everyone has done atleast marijuana - no, I haven't :smile:

[phatmonky]

And sometimes a little bit scary too, heh. I have found though that mushrooms can greatly enhance one's sense of empathy.



And then when it's time to sleep you get treated to a dosage of legal downers. Now that's real smart, subjecting your pilots to conflicting drugs. Uppers to stay awake, downers to go to sleep. I wonder if you (not any one person in particular) have any idea the stress that can put on the human. That's one of the astounding things of America, you can't smoke a plant that occurs in nature, but you can get your soldiers hopped up on the manufactured concoctions of pharmaceutical giants. GO AMERICA!

I'll also add that, (here in Canada at least), there was a lot of outrage over some hopped up, trigger happy, American pilots, who saw fit to drop bombs on a squadron of Canadians doing night exercises. American incompetence summed up in the media friendy term, friendy-fire. Just one more reason not to join America in it's misadventures.


If only people had the same conviction about all of their politics, as they do wanting certain/all drugs legalized.

[phatmonky]

Yep, revelator, you are SPOT ON!

Uppers, downers, uppers, downers.
Everybody knows this is STUPID!

And DRUGS (prescribed SPEED) is the COMMON FACTOR in ALL FRIENDLY- FIRE INCIDENTS with USAF.

Yes, it's totally different than raver kids popping E and then taking taking 5htp afterwards to keep from the after weekend lull.

And just so you know, people who are prescribed drugs like Adderall are often also presribed a downer to help the person sleep. Taking a type of 'downer' at the end to 'ease' off the effects of a stimulant is often considered safe, and often practiced.

[Ivan Seeking]

It seems that sometime a long time ago, we were talking about Reagan.

How about that Reagan/Astrology connection? Did an astrologer really help to guide US policy? These reports always worried me a bit but I never was sure of the truth of things; if they are known.

[selfAdjoint]

I think the astrologer, working on Nancy, had most influence on the times and places of Reagan's public appearances and speeches.

Reagan was the kind of guy who could hear you out, nodding and smiling encouragingly, and then go and go exactly what he was going to do anyway.

[revelator]

Yes, it's totally different than raver kids popping E and then taking taking 5htp afterwards to keep from the after weekend lull.

Forgive me for not saying so earlier, but kids taking ecstacy is also stupid.

Taking a type of 'downer' at the end to 'ease' off the effects of a stimulant is often considered safe, and often practiced.

Considered safe by whom? The doctors who get paid to push drugs on their patients, by the pharmaceutical companies?

[Dayle Record]

This whole Reagan display is just one more sign of the strangeness in government. Reagan is dead, but all government offices are closed tomorrow, even the mail? What is this about, is this the new state religion? We will pay as a nation for the worship dead republicans. I think this is election campaigning. In Utah the local media gave all republican candidates for public office, big air time to discuss their Reagan love. No Democrats were interviewed. You can bet that if Bill Clinton were hit by a bus in Harlem tomorrow, there would be none of this hoopla. I think that Clinton was a much better president than Reagan, by a long shot.

This obvious myth-making and spin is the strangest thing ever.

[adrenaline]

.

And just so you know, people who are prescribed drugs like Adderall are often also presribed a downer to help the person sleep. Taking a type of 'downer' at the end to 'ease' off the effects of a stimulant is often considered safe, and often practiced.

That isn't considered good medicine around here. Most people on Adderall are young teenagers, who have high potential for misuse of another potentially abusive substance and don't need to be presribed a sedative. That's why the switch to Strattera (a norepinephrine uptake inhibitor) rather than an amphetamine is becoming more of a trend. Adult ADHDs are now using mostly bupropion (Wellbutrin) or Strattera so there is less or no need for sleep agents

Off topic....I know.

[Ivan Seeking]

I think the astrologer, working on Nancy, had most influence on the times and places of Reagan's public appearances and speeches.

I was watching a diddy about Reagan tonight on The History Channel. That is pretty much what was said by his old friends. Reagan may wait until a good day to make an appearance but policy was not affected.

A funny comment by Jimmy Baker. He was saying that in the early days of his political career Reagan could never say no. If it weren't for Nancy who took away Reagans appointment book and finally gave it to Baker, Reagan never would have gotten past giving speaches for the local garden club.

[kat]

This whole Reagan display is just one more sign of the strangeness in government. Reagan is dead, but all government offices are closed tomorrow, even the mail? What is this about, is this the new state religion? We will pay as a nation for the worship dead republicans. I think this is election campaigning. In Utah the local media gave all republican candidates for public office, big air time to discuss their Reagan love. No Democrats were interviewed. You can bet that if Bill Clinton were hit by a bus in Harlem tomorrow, there would be none of this hoopla. I think that Clinton was a much better president than Reagan, by a long shot.

This obvious myth-making and spin is the strangest thing ever.

Obviously you were not around when the last president died, Lyndon Johnson. It was very much the same. With one exception....Schools were closed for the day and we were all ecstatic that he had been so generous as to pass away during the school year.

[phatmonky]

That isn't considered good medicine around here. Most people on Adderall are young teenagers, who have high potential for misuse of another potentially abusive substance and don't need to be presribed a sedative. That's why the switch to Strattera (a norepinephrine uptake inhibitor) rather than an amphetamine is becoming more of a trend. Adult ADHDs are now using mostly bupropion (Wellbutrin) or Strattera so there is less or no need for sleep agents

Off topic....I know.

Well, I won't argue with you, for I know you are more educated than I on this subject.
But, I have several friends throughout highschool who were given adderall and sleeping aids as part of their standard treatment.
But I digress, thanks for enlightening me, and my main point was that the military's actions are not crazy and off the wall, as was being stated to me.

[phatmonky]

I'll also add that, (here in Canada at least), there was a lot of outrage over some hopped up, trigger happy, American pilots, who saw fit to drop bombs on a squadron of Canadians doing night exercises. American incompetence summed up in the media friendy term, friendy-fire. Just one more reason not to join America in it's misadventures.

Well ,this thread has been fully run off to a tangent, so I'll just continue this I guess.

While I feel for those four canadians family's, and the other's injured, your contempt is fully unjustified - perhaps your contempt for war, or the US, add to your view, but if the opposite had happened, and that had been American troops, only the idiots in my country would be calling to stop helping Canada.

The Canadians in question had covered up the trainging lights on their helmets, which would have avoided this.
The ground team didn't make the pilot aware of the specified training area, which would have avoided this.
And the pilot has been found to have invoked the right to self defense, without enough time to make a full out judgement on whether he was in danger......which would have avoided this.

A multitude of mistakes created an event that should have never happened. But to act as if this was only 'american incompetence' is to blindly blame the US for your own short comings as well.

[Janitor]

I have watched a fair amount of the TV coverage on the "final farewell" to Ronald Reagan today. While I disagree with the theological content of many of the talks given to the mourners, I am impressed with the eloquence and poise of the speakers. Public speaking is one of the things I do worst. The man who sang Amazing Grace at the Washington, D.C. service was a really good vocalist, though I did not catch his name. As for my singing ability, that may be even worse than my public speaking. :redface:

[Robert Zaleski]

The man who sang Amazing Grace at the Washington, D.C. service was a really good vocalist, though I did not catch his name. :redface:
Ronan Tynan

[BoulderHead]

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/06/05/reagan.health/index.html

Fmr. President Ronald Reagan passed away today at the age of 93.

Very sad, but it’s been expected for some time. I think he was a very good president. What are your thoughts?
I don’t care to comment on his actions as president at this time. I do feel the death of an individual gives me pause for reflection and introspection. Gleefulness or gloating don’t enter my mind, I do not hold a grudge against the dead and if I did then it is doubtful the feeling would continue for any appreciable length of time.

[Janitor]

Robert Z, thanks for the information. That is a name I don't know from anywhere else.

Anybody know how old Patti Davis is? I would guess she is up there with me. She keeps her hair long and is aging really gracefully, like her mother. I got a kick out of her story about what her father said to her when her goldfish died.

[kat]

Obviously you were not around when the last president died, Lyndon Johnson. It was very much the same. With one exception....Schools were closed for the day and we were all ecstatic that he had been so generous as to pass away during the school year.

I can't believe nobody corrected me on this one....

[Janitor]

Um, Nixon was the last to die before RR I reckon. Jerry Ford just keeps ticking. Has anyone else noticed: He went bald early in life, and from then on, decade after decade, he has looked pretty much the same.

[Zero]

Nommos Prime (Dogon), phatmonky, and of course kat...thanks for getting this thread locked...life is too short to delete all of your useless posts.