Can Earth's Atmosphere Retain All Types of Atoms?

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    Constant Weight
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the question of whether Earth's weight is constant, exploring concepts of mass, gravity, and the potential for Earth to gain or lose mass through various mechanisms. Participants delve into the implications of gravitational forces, the effects of Earth's orbit, and the behavior of light atoms in the atmosphere.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that Earth's mass is generally constant on human time-scales, with minor increases from meteoric impacts.
  • Others clarify that while Earth's mass is mostly constant, the acceleration due to gravity varies depending on location and distance from other massive bodies.
  • A participant suggests that the force of gravity acting on Earth varies slightly due to its elliptical orbit around the sun.
  • One participant cites estimates of mass falling to Earth annually, indicating uncertainty in the actual figures.
  • Some participants propose that Earth can lose mass, particularly through light atoms like hydrogen and helium reaching escape velocity.
  • Another participant questions the likelihood of hydrogen escaping Earth's gravitational influence, suggesting that only high-energy molecules might achieve this.
  • There is a discussion about the Maxwell-Boltzmann distribution and how it relates to the escape of lighter atoms from the atmosphere.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the constancy of Earth's weight and mass, with some agreeing on the general constancy of mass while others highlight the variability of gravitational forces and the potential for mass loss. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the specifics of mass gain and loss mechanisms.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the dependence on definitions of weight and mass, as well as the influence of gravitational variations and atmospheric dynamics on the discussion.

monty37
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i know this question is in poor taste but still:
is Earth's weight constant?
 
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Weight? Its mass is more or less constant, might gain a small amount when something hits it etc. The acceleration due to gravity is slightly different at different points. For instance if you measured g on the side of the large mountain you would notice that the mass of the mountain moves the centre of mass of the Earth slightly.
 


monty37 said:
i know this question is in poor taste but still:
is Earth's weight constant?

You'll need to clarify your question. If you mean is the Earth's mass constant, then yes, on human time-scales it is constant. On a geological time-scale of hundreds of millions of years and such, it is basically constant, there's impacts from things such as meteors that increase the mass ever so slightly but still, it's so little that it's basically uninteresting.

If you mean a mass' acceleration due to the Earth depending on where you are, no it isn't constant. If you travel to the moon, your acceleration due to the Earth drops off dramatically obviously. If you mean your acceleration at different points on the surface, there is a slight difference. If you measure your weight where you live and then travel down to, say, Antarctica, your weight will be slightly different most likely. This is because Earth is not a constant distribution of mass. Actually, that is one method of discovering oil; the acceleration of a body at a point on Earth that is relatively solid underneath it differs from a point on Earth where there is a large mass of oil hiding in the Earth.
 


If the question is about the force of gravity which the Earth is subject to, due to other massive objects such as the sun, then would it be fair to say no, the Earth's weight varies slightly? The force of gravity depends on distance, and the Earth's distance from other bodies isn't perfectly constant. In particular, it's orbit isn't a perfect circle, so the force required to hold it at rest should be greater when the Earth is closer to the sun.
 


Rasalhague said:
the force required to hold it at rest

Would a better way to phrase this be: "the force required to counteract acceleration due to gravity"?
 


Rasalhague said:
The force of gravity depends on distance, and the Earth's distance from other bodies isn't perfectly constant.

That difference is really small. I recall Carl Sagan writing in Cosmos that the obstetrician who delivers you exerts a greater gravitational pull on you than does Mars.
 


From http://curious.astro.cornell.edu/question.php?number=470
Estimates for the mass of material that falls on Earth each year range from 37,000-78,000 tons. Most of this mass would come from dust-sized particles.​

Such a wide variance in estimates is a good indication that no one really knows the true figure.
 
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Taking the radius of the Earth's orbit from Wikipedia, and values for G and the masses of Earth and sun from Google Calculator, I get approximately

aphelion: 3.427 * 10^22 N
perihelion: 3.664 * 10^22 N

So a difference of about 2.37 * 10^21 N. Does that sound reasonable?
 


I think the Earth can lose mass as well as gain it.Light atoms such as hydrogen and helium can reach escape velocity and helium is constantly being injected into the atmosphere as a result of alpha decay, particularly from radon gas.
 
  • #10


Dadface said:
I think the Earth can lose mass as well as gain it.Light atoms such as hydrogen and helium can reach escape velocity and helium is constantly being injected into the atmosphere as a result of alpha decay, particularly from radon gas.

My thoughts: Hydrogen, helium, or any atom for that matter, that manages to worm itself into the Earth's upper atmosphere by it's own does not have the kinetic energy to permanently leave the gravitational influence of our planet.

That is, I seriously doubt that if I were to release hydrogen into the air from my home that any of it would end-up in interstellar space.

But I could be wrong here.
 
  • #11


pallidin said:
My thoughts: Hydrogen, helium, or any atom for that matter, that manages to worm itself into the Earth's upper atmosphere by it's own does not have the kinetic energy to permanently leave the gravitational influence of our planet.

That is, I seriously doubt that if I were to release hydrogen into the air from my home that any of it would end-up in interstellar space.

But I could be wrong here.

My thinking is that some of those molecules which lie at the higher energy end of the Maxwell Boltzmann distribution curve can reach or exceed escape velocity and and if at any instant they are in the right location and moving with the right trajectory they can indeed escape.Escape will be more likely with the smaller mass atoms since at any given temperature their average velocities will be higher.
 

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