Continental pilot reports "missile or rocket" over Texas

[Ivan Seeking]

Liberty County Sheriff’s officials are expected to meet with the FAA on Tuesday to discuss what a Continental Express pilot reported as a “missile or rocket” flying near his airplane. (For an update on this story, click here.)..
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/6453529.html

[zoobyshoe]

Prolly one of those amateur rocketeers didn't get proper permission or the proper alerts out.

[hypatia]

I'm thinking the same thing Zooby. I know of a few people here who don't get clearance, yet they still launch. They can get real jail time for that.

[zoobyshoe]

I'm thinking the same thing Zooby. I know of a few people here who don't get clearance, yet they still launch. They can get real jail time for that.
Yikes! And they certainly would in this case since it came so close. Have to imagine someone's shaking in their shoes.

[Astronuc]

Someone trying for the N-prize perhaps.

An altitude of >13,000 ft is not your everyday amateur. Typical model rockets go a few thousand feet - if that.

Now the pilot said that the plane passed ~100 ft below the rocket (according to an update). I wonder how he figured that. That's awfully close.

[zoobyshoe]

Someone trying for the N-prize perhaps.

An altitude of >13,000 ft is not your everyday amateur. Typical model rockets go a few thousand feet - if that.
So, it would have to be a really advanced amateur? That makes me wonder if someone didn't get their hands on some military rockets of some sort.

Now the pilot said that the plane passed ~100 ft below the rocket.
Other way around, apparently:
“The FAA then contacted the Liberty County department dispatcher and reported their pilot reported an object flying straight at his aircraft and passed 100 feet under it,” said Ken DeFoor, chief deputy for the Liberty County Sheriff’s Department.
That's ambiguous. The original article is more clear:
A pilot reported to the Federal Aviation Administration that at about 8:15 p.m. Friday, an object passed within 150 feet beneath the aircraft, sheriff’s officials said.
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/headline/metro/6455016.html


Turns out this has happened there before:
In May 2008, a Continental Airlines pilot reported a similar incident.

“It was the same situation, almost identical,” DeFoor said. “The FBI are pulling their records on that one. It was roughly in the same area almost a year ago.”

The Boeing 737, en route to Cleveland, Ohio, with 148 passengers, was not damaged.

“We looked into that, along with the FAA and some local law enforcement,” Dunlap said. “To my knowledge, it was never determined what may of been observed during that incident.”

[russ_watters]

There obviously aren't as many as the "typical" model rockets we all launched in junior high, but there are a lot of them and the rockets are bigger than shoulder-fired SAMs. You need an FAA waiver for them.

[signerror]

One of the blogs on SB is a photoblog featuring high-powered amateur rockets,

http://scienceblogs.com/photosynthesis/

It's the one which had the ant photographer last month.

/sort of relevant

[signerror]

Looking it up, it seems the Stingers (shoulder-fired SAMs) have a ceiling of 10,000 ft, so we can (?) rule them out.

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/stinger.htm

[junglebeast]

After toying with the smaller rocket engines a lot of fans move on to high-powered rocket kits. These go up to O -class motors, which are capable of reaching an altitude of up to 40,000 feet at least, as evidenced here

http://www.jrockdale.com/O.htm


http://www.jrockdale.com/tripoli_altitude_records.htm#navpoint

Actually, it only takes an I-class motor to reach 13,000 feet..which is on the low-end. I would guess that this flight path is nearby to an amateur testing ground site

[ibnsos]

Sounds to me like they need to look for an amateur in the area with a birthday in May since this is two Mays in a row.

[russ_watters]

One of the blogs on SB is a photoblog featuring high-powered amateur rockets,

http://scienceblogs.com/photosynthesis/

It's the one which had the ant photographer last month.

/sort of relevant
Jeez, one of those has a screen cap from a heads-up display showing an altitude of 31,000m!

[S_Happens]

I live pretty close to where the event occurred (10-15 miles or less depending on launch site). Considering the people in the area, it's most likely that it's an amateur in the area who either doesn't know any better or just doesn't care. Living in that area means you are in close proximity to Houston, but out where you can pretty much do whatever you want. The amount of air traffic coming out of IAH (where Continental flies out of) is very large, so again, my first thought would be coincidence.

I was working all last week and then busy in the yard all weekend so I hadn't heard about the prior incident. I guess we'll see what happens. Unless it was launched from one of the smaller towns, it's likely that evidence won't be found and people won't talk.

[zoobyshoe]

Jeez, one of those has a screen cap from a heads-up display showing an altitude of 31,000m!

Are you saying they have amateur rockets that can go that high?

[Astronuc]

Are you saying they have amateur rockets that can go that high? Yes - and higher!

On May 17, 2004 Civilian Space eXploration Team (CSXT) successfully launched the first amateur high-power rocket into space, achieving an altitude of 72 miles (115 km)! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amateur_rocketry#Notable_Events

BTW - High Power Rockets = H-class and higher motors
Who Regulates High Power Rocketry?

High power rockets fall under a different code of regulations known as National Fire Protection Association (NFPA) Code 1127. The NFPA's current rocketry codes were first written in 1995 and most recently updated in 2008. Many states have adopted it by reference through their adoption of NFPA 1, or by other means. You should check your own state's laws before attempting to launch high power rockets.

In addition, you must apply for and receive an FAA waiver before launching high power rockets. The purpose of this waiver is to arrange for air traffic to be routed clear of your flight area. http://www.nar.org/hpcert/NARhprintro.html

[Alfi]

All ya need is an FAA waiver ?
:rolleyes:
Are these are the same people that, for my safety, won't let me carry a full tube of toothpaste in my carry-on?

[Moonbear]

All ya need is an FAA waiver ?
:rolleyes:
Are these are the same people that, for my safety, won't let me carry a full tube of toothpaste in my carry-on?

Yep, that same tube of toothpaste that they'll let sit in a barrel next to the security checkpoints where there are long lines of people. If it was an explosive, it would harm fewer people if it went off on a plane than in that crowded security area.

[Astronuc]

All ya need is an FAA waiver ?
:rolleyes:
Are these are the same people that, for my safety, won't let me carry a full tube of toothpaste in my carry-on?
That's DHS - a different group of people. They are worried about people concealing explosives or nerve gas in personal items.

[Alfi]

The DHS.
Are they the same ones that master minded the no-fly list?

So the FAA controls what, and who, can shoot/launch 'up'.
The DHS controls what possessions you can have when you're 'blown up'.

I don't feel safer.

[Astronuc]

FAA regulates the airspace, commercial aviation and private aviation.

The DHS handles the security of the people/customers using commercial aviation. They also control the borders - in theory.

[Moonbear]

So the FAA controls what, and who, can shoot/launch 'up'.
The DHS controls what possessions you can have when you're 'blown up'.

:rofl: I think those should be the official definitions.

[EnumaElish]

Could it be the same one that a Fla. fisherman reeled in today?

"MADEIRA BEACH - Long-line fishing boat captain Rodney W. Salomon docked near the Tom Stuart Causeway on Monday afternoon, bringing with him a souvenir he reeled in from 60 miles off the coast of Panama City.

It was an air-to-air guided missile.

And, yes, Salomon had caught a live one.

...

A few days ago he fished out a second missile, but a gauge kept beeping, and Salomon feared it was still live - so he put it back in the water."

http://www2.tbo.com/content/2009/jun/09/na-captains-big-catch-is-a-live-missile/