Field vs Potential: E=-curl of V

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationship between the electric field (E) and electric potential (V), specifically addressing the claim that E is equal to the negative curl of V. Participants explore the implications of this relationship, the nature of scalar and vector fields, and the independence of the components of the electric field.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question how a scalar function (V) can provide all the information contained in a vector function (E), given that E has three components while V is a scalar.
  • Others clarify that the curl operator only acts on vector fields and that the relationship between E and V is more accurately described using the gradient operator, which can produce a vector from a scalar field.
  • It is noted that a scalar field can contain sufficient information to generate a vector field through its gradient, which provides the rate of change of the scalar field in three-dimensional space.
  • Participants discuss the independence of the components of the electric field, with some suggesting that while the components are orthogonally independent as vectors, their magnitudes may depend on other spatial coordinates.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

There is no consensus on the independence of the components of the electric field, as participants express differing views on the nature of this independence and the equations governing the electric field.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight that a scalar is not merely a one-dimensional vector and that the curl operator is not applicable to scalar fields. There are unresolved questions regarding the specific equations used to define the electric field and how the components relate to one another.

astro2cosmos
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if E=-curl of V, E is vector quantity(3 components) & V is scalar quantity (1 component) then how can one function possibly contain all the information that 3 independent function carry?
 
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You have your operators mixed up. Curl only operates on other vectors and produces a vector. The relationship between the electric field and electric potential is through the gradient operator. The gradient operator acts on a scalar and produces a vector. Imagine a topographical map. A topographical map is a 2D plane that maps the vertical height of the landscape. The vertical height is shown by lines of iso-height (yeah, that's the wrong word but I mean lines that show a continuous line of constant height). The gradient operator, acting on the height, would produce vectors that are normal to these lines of iso-height, they point in the direction of greatest change in the scalar as a function of the coordinate axes.

So if our scalar is dependent upon three variables, say the three spatial coordinates, then the gradient would produce a vector that points in the direction of greatest change in the coordinate space.
 
astro2cosmos said:
if E=-curl of V, E is vector quantity(3 components) & V is scalar quantity (1 component) then how can one function possibly contain all the information that 3 independent function carry?
The first thing to point out is that a scalar isn't simply a one-dimensional vector, so it itsn't really correct to say a scalar has one component. Secondly, the curl operator on acts on vector fields. Finally, it is very easy for a scalar field to contain all the information necessary to generate a vector field. For example, the gradient of a scalar field is defined as,

[tex]\nabla V\left(x,y,z\right) = \left(\frac{\partial V}{\partial x},\;\frac{\partial V}{\partial y},\; \frac{\partial V}{\partial z}\right)[/tex]

Hence, the gradient of a scalar field results in a vector which represents how fast the scalar field V is changing in the directions parallel to the three axes.

Do you see?

Edit: I see that I was beaten to it.
 
Hootenanny said:
The first thing to point out is that a scalar isn't simply a one-dimensional vector, so it itsn't really correct to say a scalar has one component. Secondly, the curl operator on acts on vector fields. Finally, it is very easy for a scalar field to contain all the information necessary to generate a vector field. For example, the gradient of a scalar field is defined as,

[tex]\nabla V\left(x,y,z\right) = \left(\frac{\partial V}{\partial x},\;\frac{\partial V}{\partial y},\; \frac{\partial V}{\partial z}\right)[/tex]

Hence, the gradient of a scalar field results in a vector which represents how fast the scalar field V is changing in the directions parallel to the three axes.

Do you see?

Edit: I see that I was beaten to it.

yes you may right, but is it right to say that the 3 components of electric field are independent??
 
astro2cosmos said:
but is it right to say that the 3 components of electric field are independent??
In what sense? What equation are you using to determine the electric field?
 
Independent in what way? As vector components they are orthogonally independent. As functions, the magnitude of a vector component can be dependent upon the other spatial coordinates. That is, the x-component of the electric field can still be dependent or indepedent of the x, y, and/or z coordinates.

EDIT: Curses! Hootenanny wins this round.
 

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