What is the relationship between dark energy and the inertia of baryonic matter?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationship between dark energy and the inertia of baryonic matter, exploring theoretical implications and conceptual connections. Participants examine how dark energy's mass density compares to that of baryonic matter and propose potential mechanisms by which dark energy might influence inertia.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that the similar mass densities of dark energy and baryonic matter could imply a relationship where dark energy influences the inertia of baryonic matter, drawing an analogy to Mach's principle.
  • Another participant provides a definition of inertia, emphasizing its role as resistance to changes in velocity and linking it to linear momentum.
  • Several participants discuss the mathematical formulations of force and momentum, including the derivation of Newton's second law and its applicability across different physical theories.
  • There is a mention of the assumption that mass remains constant in classical physics, with discussions on how this assumption may not hold in other contexts, such as quantum mechanics and relativity.
  • Some participants introduce concepts of relativistic mass and its relationship to inertial mass, referencing the principle of equivalence between inertial and gravitational mass.
  • There are claims about the existence of different types of mass, such as potential mass and kinetic mass, and their implications for understanding inertia.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views on the definitions and implications of inertia, with some agreeing on the foundational concepts while others contest the applicability of classical definitions in modern physics. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the specific relationship between dark energy and inertia.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that certain assumptions, such as the constancy of mass and the applicability of classical physics, may not hold in all scenarios, particularly in relativistic or quantum contexts. The discussion includes unresolved mathematical steps and varying interpretations of mass.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to those exploring theoretical physics, particularly in the realms of cosmology, quantum mechanics, and the foundations of inertia and mass.

kurious
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Because dark energy and baryonic matter have mass densities of the
same order -
about 10^ - 27 kg / m^3, their total mass in the universe is similar.
This would be the case if dark energy caused the inertia of baryonic
matter,wouldn't it? (analagous to Mach saying that the distant stars
contribute to the inertia of local masses).
The total amount of dark energy in the universe increases with time,
but baryonic mass would not necessarily increase with time:
protons have masses that depend mainly on their gluons and if
these became less energetic as the total amount of dark energy
increased,
then the protons would have the same inertia overall.Can anyone think
of some evidence to support these ideas?
 
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kurious,

You might already know it but allow me to say something about the concept of inertia.

Inertia is defined as the resistance sustained by an object to a velocity changing force. The effect is seen by the manifestation of acceleration.

Every object in the universe has linear momentum (Newton's 1st law of motion). There is a mass factor within the linear momentum. It is the tendency of an object to keep the mass constant when subjected to a velocity changing force that gives its definition of inertia.

[tex]F = \frac{dp}{dt}[/tex]

where [itex]F[/itex] is the force, [itex]p[/itex] is the linear momentum.
 
[tex]F = \frac{d(mv)}{dt}[/tex]

where [itex]m[/itex] is the mass of the object and [itex]v[/itex] is the velocity of the object.

[tex]F = v \frac{dm}{dt} + m \frac{dv}{dt}[/tex]

but [itex]\frac{dm}{dt}[/itex] is assumed zero and [itex]a = \frac{dv}{dt}[/itex] where [itex]a[/itex] is the acceleration.

[tex]F = ma[/tex] becomes Newton's 2nd law of motion. This law is true in classical physics, in quantum theory, in special relativity, in general relativity, in all of physics as the law of inertial force.
 
So for the existence of inertial force, we made the assumption that

[tex]v \frac{dm}{dt} = 0[/tex]

From special theory of relativity, we can substitute [itex]m = \frac{E}{c^2}[/itex] giving the following

[tex]\frac{v}{c^2} \frac{dE}{dt} = 0[/tex]
 
For stable particles such as proton and electron the change in rest energy is zero.

[tex]\frac{dE}{dt} = 0[/tex]

but the total energy of a particle includes its relativitic energy [itex]cp[/itex] and rest energy [itex]E = m_0 c^2[/itex] where [itex]p=mc[/itex] and [itex]m[/itex] is the relativistic mass, [itex]m_0[/itex] is the rest mass. And the relativistic relation is given by

[tex]E^2 = \xi^2 - c^2 p^2[/tex]

where [itex]\xi[/itex] is the total energy.
 
The existence of inertia implies that (see note)

[tex]\frac{d}{dt} \sqrt{\xi^2 - c^2p^2} = 0[/tex]

furthermore,

[tex]\xi \frac{d \xi}{dt} = c^2 p \frac{dp}{dt}[/tex]

this implies an equivalence with the following

[tex]E^2 = \psi_i \times \phi_i \cdot \psi_j \times \phi_j[/tex]

Note:

This is an extremum condition for finding maximum and minimum values of a function.
 
Last edited:
Sorry for the interruption...but F=ma is valid only in classical physics...F=dp/dt is correct in general...I think...
 
bogdan,

[itex]F=ma[/itex] defines inertial mass. In quantum mechanics, no new mass is defined and theories use the experimental values for inertial mass. Special and general relativity defined a new mass called relativistic mass and it is related to the inertial mass by [itex]\gamma[/itex] where

[tex]\gamma = \frac{1}{\sqrt{1 - \frac{v^2}{c^2}}}[/tex]

And the principle of equivalence says that inertial mass is equal to the gravitational mass.
 
Last edited:
bogdan,

And [itex]F=\frac{dp}{dt}[/itex] gives linear momentum with an independent existence leading to work and kinetic energy. This is possible only if the velocity is not zero.

When the velocity is zero or only locally possible as in rotational motion, the mass becomes potential instead of kinetic. Inertial mass is another name for potential mass. We can even try to define a new mass called kinetic mass associated with each linear momentum.
 

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