Transitions from Rest State to Rectilinear Motion: Infinite Jerk?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the concept of a body transitioning from a rest state to rectilinear motion, specifically examining the implications of this transition on jerk, which is the rate of change of acceleration. Participants explore the mathematical and physical interpretations of this transition, including the nature of acceleration and jerk in idealized scenarios versus real-world applications.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Mark W. Ingalls recalls that a body transitioning from rest to motion may experience "nearly infinite" jerk, questioning the validity of this idea based on the nature of derivatives.
  • Another participant asks for clarification on what is meant by "nearly infinite" jerk.
  • Pete elaborates on the mathematical description of the transition, suggesting that a step function for acceleration leads to an infinite jerk at the moment of transition, but notes this is not physically realizable.
  • Mark W. Ingalls provides an example of a vehicle accelerating from rest, questioning whether there is a precise instant when it transitions from motionless to moving and how this affects acceleration continuity.
  • Mark W. Ingalls also draws an analogy between force and voltage, relating it to the response of an inductor to a voltage step, indicating a connection to electrical engineering concepts.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of jerk during the transition from rest to motion, with some supporting the idea of infinite jerk in an idealized mathematical sense, while others emphasize the impracticality of such a scenario in real-world applications. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the implications of these concepts.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights limitations in the assumptions made about physical transitions, particularly the idealization of acceleration as a step function and the implications of such models in practical scenarios.

Mark_W_Ingalls
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Anyone-

From long ago IIRC a body that transitions from a rest state to a rectilinear moving state undergoes nearly infinite jerk (change in 'a'). On the one hand, my memory is reinforced by the idea that not all functions have infinitely many derivatives... But on the other hand, I may not have gone down the chain of differentiation far enough, so that jerk isn't "nearly infinite" ever, after all.

I am going to go soak my head while I await your wisdom...

Mark W. Ingalls
 
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So what is your question?

Can you give a better idea of what you mean by nearly infinite?
 
Mark_W_Ingalls said:
Anyone-

From long ago IIRC a body that transitions from a rest state to a rectilinear moving state undergoes nearly infinite jerk (change in 'a').
The kinematics of such a transition may be described mathematically as such and give a "nearly" infinite jerk (whatever that means) its different than what can actually happen in nature. Suppose a particle is described as having zero acceleration for t < 0 and constant acceleration for t > 0. The acceleration is then a step function. Then the jerk is infinite (delta function) at t = 0. This does not mean that this situation can happen like this in nature.

Pete
 
Thanks for stopping by, integral and pmb_phy--

I am familiar with the delta function; I also know that we EE's blow off the natural response and (In my case) any forcing function that is not "harmonic," e.g. sinusoidal, but I was thinking about a car pulling away from a stop light, or a train pulling away from the station. Is there an instant when the vehicle under consideration goes from 'motionless' to 'moving'?

And in that *cusp* of an instant, the vehicle's position wrt time would (obviously) have to be continuous, but would its acceleration, necessarily? (This was many, many years ago; we had slide rules then.)

#:8-o

Anyway, thanks for helping scrape the rust off...

M
 
I just wanted to shut all the gates on my way out...

I recalled the force - voltage analogy and I immedeiately visualized the response of an inductor-terminated X-line to a voltage step.

F = V
m = L
v = i

dV/dt = L di/dt, ...

#:8-D

M
 

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