Is prostitution immoral?

[Saint]

Some people think that prostitute is not immoral, they "work" to get their pay, just as other types of professions.

Prostitution is considered the oldest business in history, it existed in feudal system long time ago.

What do you think?

My answer is : YES, it is immoral.

[arildno]

Since you, by adhering to scripture as the sole basis and source of morality, you are at the outset disqualified as a subject with moral authority.
Only when you have developed an individual, moral core in your personality which do not need any external props to guide your actions, can you become a full participant in a reasoned discussion of moral issues.
In the mean time, learn to grow up and become an adult.

[jcsd]

Judge not, lest ye be judged. - Matthew 7:1

[Gokul43201]

Whore not, lest we be pimped. - Gokul 6:9

[Gokul43201]

Mary Magdalene, consort of Jesus Christ, was a prostitute (but we're told she was penitent, so that makes it okay). Was she not the First Apostle, the illuminata illuminatrix ?

[humanino]

Great answers Gokul !

Saint : you definitely need a "I have problems with sex" forum.

[Artman]

Mary Magdalene, consort of Jesus Christ, was a prostitute ...
This is the traditional belief, not at all biblical.

[humanino]

Yeah, not biblical because it has been taken away by those horrible guys in Roma.

[jimmy p]

Whore not, lest we be pimped. - Gokul 6:9


Amen Brother!!! :cool: :tongue:

[aychamo]

These topics are as stupid as the original poster. There is no universal qualifed moral authority. What's moral is in the eye of the beholder.

[Monique]

It's a social science and there are definately moral rules we all have to follow: they are written in the letter of the law. Eliciting debate is not stupid.

[ray b]

Yeah, not biblical because it has been taken away by those horrible guys in Roma.

what did "THEY" take away and hide
the fact that JC was married to mary mags perhaps
why would JC and his mom care that the wine ran out
at "SOMEBODYS" wedding as that is the bridegroom's responceabilty
:surprise:

the hooker charge is a church slander againts mary mags
remember there are a bunch of marys in this tale
and they have been mixed up by the church


back to the first question, prostitution is not immoral
SEX is not immoral
the christian church is immoral, repressive, anti-learning, and willing to kill
anyone who dares to point out these facts, look at their history
the fact that they RESENTLY have lost the power to force their will on others
doesnot excise their history of such acts

[Dooga Blackrazor]

How is prostitution not immoral logically? 1. Your taking a risk at bringing a child into the world with parents who don't love each other. 2. By supporting the industry you help put women in a career that may result in them ending up poor when they are older. There are other ways it causes negative things to happen - those are just two examples.

[humanino]

Maybe the problem is what leads today some people in prostitution, that is for social reasons somebody is lead to those extrem solutions to survive. But it might very well be that prostitution by itself has in the past been considered "normal" and useful to society. It may very well be that in another social organisation, prostitutes use contraceptivs (=no unwanted child) and do this job because they like it (=money + not too difficult + ... com'on, don't you like it?). As for the other negative things Dooga is mentioning : are those linked to prostitution by itself, or is it merely a consequence of the way prostitution occurs in our rich developped countries ? Monique : what lead your country to organise prostitution ? It is certainly not only the fact that anyway prostitution is happening, so better tax it.

For the sake of reference here : I am not really pro/contra prostitution. I am playing the devil's opinion. The truth is : I am hardly confronted to prostitution in my life.

[Nooac]

First you need to consider the relevant factors: the need to propogate the species, man's happiness (both individually and colectively), man is a social animal who forms not only large groups but also smaller more intimate groups, and further consider a need for stability in these groups.

When you consider these factors, it seems apparent to me that prostitution is ultimately devisive and not conducive to man's best interest and therefore should be considered immoral.

arildno responded:
Since you, by adhering to scripture as the sole basis and source of morality, you are at the outset disqualified as a subject with moral authority.
Only when you have developed an individual, moral core in your personality which do not need any external props to guide your actions, can you become a full participant in a reasoned discussion of moral issues.
In the mean time, learn to grow up and become an adult

This arguement is so specious and wrong on so many levels that I ccould hardly begin to correct them in the time I have available. I suggest a class in logical reasoning.


According to Gokul43201
Mary Magdalene, consort of Jesus Christ, was a prostitute (but we're told she was penitent, so that makes it okay). Was she not the First Apostle, the illuminata illuminatrix ?

This is unresponsive to the original question. What is your point?


As for Ray b, I find it interesting that you mention "church slander" since your response seems to be an arguement by way of slandering "the christian church"; which is no arguement at all.

[K.J.Healey]

How is prostitution not immoral logically? 1. Your taking a risk at bringing a child into the world with parents who don't love each other. 2. By supporting the industry you help put women in a career that may result in them ending up poor when they are older. There are other ways it causes negative things to happen - those are just two examples.

Im split on the issue.
The fact remains that the majority of their actions only affect their lives. Does eating at McDonalds promote an unhealthy lifestyle for those around you? Yes.

Logically the "love" of a child from its parents should have nothing to do with it. If there is a whore-baby could it not be put up for adoption? What about morning after pills? It aborts it before it has any sort of consciousness.

Logically prostitution is a choice of profession that is not immoral in the sense that immoral actions decrease the ability for a society to grow and induce pain and suffering to the general population. I myslef have never had a prostitute ruin my potential, nor has the majority of the population. It does not cause death or disease. It only affects a small minority of children perhaps raised in that situation where they are basically forced into the profession by their surroundings. But I believe that it brings more "pleasure" in a sense, to the general public than death and decay.

A decent comparison is driving a car with a child in it. You are making the choice for your children that they accept the risk of being in that car, given the staggering numbers of deaths in auto related accidents. But the catch is that driving provides a service that increases the happiness in your life, and helps the society grow. Remember that you cant say "but EVERYONE drives a car, its necessary in this world." Because scaling has nothing to do with it. Immorality should be a trait that does not increase with numbers. If only one person did it in the world, or a million people did it, moral is moral and immoral is immoral. Its not a matter of how many people perform the action, but rather how many people are affected by the action. I believe the government banning autmobiles would be immoral (never would happen). It would affect too many people, but really only a handful are the cause.

This is sort of contradictory to any argument Ive made at all though. I do that when iim not sure about my stance. I gues you would have to define a "personal morality" and a "social morality" where one thing can be socially moral but personally immoral. Like if a person didn't have any friends or family and killed themself, it would be socially moral because it does not affect anyone other than himself. But the fact that it affects his wellbeing makes it personally immoral.

Im just ranting. Time to head to the airport for Miami, gotta catch a flight. Later.

[graphic7]

I don't think you can strictly say prostitution is immoral (religious stigmas aside). There are plenty of circumstances that one may have to result to prostitution in order to bring food home everynight; you can disapprove, but you can't say it's immoral or just plain "wrong."

[K.J.Healey]

Yea, theres more of a gauge of immorality/morality of an action rather than a choice between the two. You'd have to ask "How moral is it?"

[BobG]

Prostitution isn't any more immoral than taking pay to fix someone's car, to wait on their table, to clean their house, or any other service job.

The more pertinent question is about it's social implications. In general, it doesn't exactly improve the stability of marriages.

Even then, its social implications have to be kept in perspective. It certainly has fewer adverse social effects than alcoholism or a gambling addiction (both on society as a whole and on marriages). It even has fewer adverse effects on a marriage than extra-marital affairs, especially if the affair is with a close friend of the family.

[Prometheus]

Prostitution is considered the oldest business in history, it existed in feudal system long time ago.

What do you think?

My answer is : YES, it is immoral.
What do I think?

I think that your talk about the oldest "business" in history in the same sentence that you mention the feudal system shows that you have no real concept of history at all.

You have the right to your opinion. However, I think that you are trying to preach, and that you are asking so many questions about morality in order to enable you to preach.

Prostitution itself if not immoral. Arrogant, selfish people such as yourself make value judgments about the actions of other people. Just because you would not engage in such activities yourself, you feel yourself so righteous that you can pass negative judgments about the morality involved.

[ray b]

As for Ray b, I find it interesting that you mention "church slander" since your response seems to be an arguement by way of slandering "the christian church"; which is no arguement at all.

slander is a FALSE charge
so true facts cannot be slander

and if a group has a true history of immoral acts
in my oppinon that shows their true nature far better then
all their moral BS

watch what they do, before following what they say
or as JC said it " actions not words "

[Prometheus]

When you consider these factors, it seems apparent to me that prostitution is ultimately devisive and not conducive to man's best interest and therefore should be considered immoral.
When YOU consider these factors, it seems apparent to ME...

When he considers these factors, is it really apparent to you, or is it simply your best guess interpreation of an ancient book? Have you dared to invest some original thought, or are you only allowing yourself to attempt as best you can to understand something written by someone else a long time ago?

[check]

When is someone going to start a "Is imposing your moral philosophy on others immoral?" thread?

[Moonbear]

Saint, you listed reasons why some would think prostitution is not immoral, and then state that you think it's immoral without giving any reasoning for your opinion.

I don't have any problem with prostitution as a profession. I gave it some thought. Who gets hurt by it, and is that worse than what they would experience if prostitution did not exist?

1) The two people at greatest risk would be the prostitute and the john for disease transmission. However, both go into this arrangement knowingly, and I think they can decide for themselves if this is an acceptable risk in their life.

2) The spouses of the johns. They too are at risk for any diseases their husband may bring home, and do not enter into the agreement willingly. However, in this case, the problem is not prostitution, but the dishonesty of the husband who has not told his wife that he has other sexual partners. Were only single men to use the services provided by prostitutes, this wouldn't be a problem at all. Someone also mentioned that it doesn't exactly promote a good marriage. However, it also isn't the cause of the deterioration of a marriage. If someone is seeking sexual interactions with someone other than his own wife, then the marriage is already dissolving.

3) Any children born as a result of the prostitute's activities. First, this is again not due to prostitution, per se, so much as the prostitute not using contraception correctly. However, even with the use of contraception, there is some risk of conception and that a child will be born. So, what about working in a service industry makes one a bad mother? Nothing. What makes this seem like a bad situation is the social stigma people like Saint place on prostitutes and then extend to their children. Yes, this child is likely to wind up with only one parent. This too is not by itself a bad thing. Afterall, if someone got married, then pregnant, and then her husband died while she was still pregnant, is that woman immoral for having a child who will be raised without a father? The reason for the father not being present is different, but the outcome the same.

Perhaps the immoral thing is the judgment of other people's character based on their choice of profession.

[Saint]

Reasons to be prostitute:
1) Laziness to work, they want to get quick money by just stretching wide their legs on bed.
2) Silliness and shamelessness to choose this contemptible profession
3) Most prostitute are drug addicts too, they need money to buy drugs, therefore they work as prostitute to earn fast money.
4) Has no moral concience of the disgustable thing they do.

[Saint]

I mean prostitution is immoral, but not illegal in most countries nowadays.
In malaysia, prostitution is illegal, but the prostitutes won't be penalised when being caught by police; however, the pimps who gain profit from prostitution will be sued in court under the Women's Protection Law of Malaysia.

[hypnagogue]

Prostitution is the act of exchanging money for sexual favors. This in itself does not necessarily entail transmission of diseases, unwanted children, or marriage dissolutions. For instance, we could imagine a brothel that only hires disease free women and only accepts disease free clients, makes contraceptive use mandatory, and refuses to serve married men. This brothel would still be engaging in the activity of prostitution, and yet would not be engaging in any of the main moral complaints raised against it in this thread.

In other words, what seems to be really immoral about prostitution is the circumstances under which it usually occurs, as opposed to the act itself. Ironically, making prostitution illegal only exacerbates these circumstances by excluding any chance of regulating how it is conducted. If it were legal and was made to be conducted safely and conscienciously under penalty of law, what of the immoral residue would remain?

[Ivan Seeking]

Reasons to be prostitute:
1) Laziness to work, they want to get quick money by just stretching wide their legs on bed.
2) Silliness and shamelessness to choose this contemptible profession
3) Most prostitute are drug addicts too, they need money to buy drugs, therefore they work as prostitute to earn fast money.
4) Has no moral concience of the disgustable thing they do.

I believe prositution is immoral on the face of things. However, I also realize the people have difficult lives that drive them into bad circumstances. With this in mind, I prefer the christian ethic - I choose not to play God and judge others.

[Math Is Hard]

Reasons to be prostitute:
1) Laziness to work, they want to get quick money by just stretching wide their legs on bed.

This is what I find most amusing about Saint's arguments. He is always telling the reader a tiny bit more with his descriptions than is necessary. He could have simply said that prostitutes want to earn easy money while laying on their backs, but no -- he goes for the full-blown vivid description of the prostitute's legs stretching wide on the bed. There is a great irony in his presenting us with this mental pornography that wasn't present before in our thoughts. :rofl:

[Saint]

I just spoke the truth.
I was solicited by pimps and prostitutes many times before while walking on street, they just suddenly came forward to me and asked, "Do you want women? Do you want sex? It is only 100 ringgit per deal. "
It is very embaressing and insulting to me.

They are shameless!

[Math Is Hard]

I just spoke the truth.
I was solicited by pimps and prostitutes many times before while walking on street, they just suddenly came forward to me and asked, "Do you want women? Do you want sex? It is only 100 ringgit per deal. "
It is very embaressing and insulting to me.


Why? Were they asking for too much money?

[Saint]

There are prostitutes everywhere in my country, especially in cities.
Normally they have their business in motels, low-class hotels, hair saloon, health center etc.
Some are street-prostitutes who approached men who walk alone.

[Math Is Hard]

Why would you adopt an attitude of disgust rather than sympathy? Maybe their unfortunate circumstances in life have had nothing better to offer to them.

[Prometheus]

This is what I find most amusing about Saint's arguments. He is always telling the reader a tiny bit more with his descriptions than is necessary. He could have simply said that prostitutes want to earn easy money while laying on their backs, but no -- he goes for the full-blown vivid description of the prostitute's legs stretching wide on the bed. There is a great irony in his presenting us with this mental pornography that wasn't present before in our thoughts. :rofl:
I get the impression that he read this on one of the porn sights that he despises so much. He seems to be an expert on porn sites. Is he a hypocrit?

[Math Is Hard]

I get the impression that YES!, Saint is hypocritical, but probably does not mean to be. He is fallable, but all Christians are, according to the religion.
Christianity is one of the hardest philosophies/religions to follow because while the perfection that Christ embodied must always be strived for, it must also be realized that it is not attainable for people on earth. Even though there are clear delineations in the Bible about what is "wrong moral behavior", it still doesn't give carte-blanche for people to go around judging other people. In fact, judgement is only allowed when the follower can himself be declared above judgement. (just ain't gonna happen)
I was hoping that Saint could see, if he is truly studious of his Christian doctines, that he must view the prostitute as his "little sister" and someone to be saved and helped, rather than someone to be thrown away and condemned.

[aychamo]

It's a social science and there are definately moral rules we all have to follow: they are written in the letter of the law. Eliciting debate is not stupid.

Wrong. Laws are laws. Morals are morals.

What's immoral to one person may or may not be immoral to another person. There is no correct answer for asking if something is immoral or not because everyone has their own opinion on it.

Asking for peoples opinions is one thing, but a debate on morality is pointless as everyone has their own opinion.

[Gokul43201]

According to Gokul43201

{Mary Magdalene...blah blah}

This is unresponsive to the original question. What is your point?



Yes it is (unresponsive). I'm providing just the kind of post that Saint so often comes up with himself. Instead of discussing the issue in the context of previous posts/responses, he mostly makes some statement based on the Bible (or elsewhere), that is totally out of the flow of discussion.

That's exactly what I did here.

PS : See posts #25 and #32. They are prime examples of posting random facts related to the topic but counter to the flow of the discussion.

[BoulderHead]

There are prostitutes everywhere in my country, especially in cities.
What an immoral, evil, country!
Normally they have their business in motels, low-class hotels, hair saloon, health center etc.
You speak with some authority, I notice.
Some are street-prostitutes who approached men who walk alone.
Ahhh, there's nothing quite like a long walk... :biggrin:

[Gokul43201]

Come on you guys/gals...you talk as though you have no knowledge of Born Agains !

[BoulderHead]

He never addressed a question I asked of him concerning previous posts where he seemed to be blasting many elements of Xianity. Now he seems to be of Xian conviction and blasting away yet again. The common denominator is 'blasting', and F-A-N-A-T-C-I-S-M is what I think of all this, from one extreme to the other.

Yeuuchhh, is my final comment to be posted in any of these type threads. If he wants to discuss morality there is a forum here for that. If he wants to discuss religion there may still remain opportunity in the archives to post, dunno. To me, such does not belong in General.

[BobG]

Reasons to be prostitute:

3) Most prostitute are drug addicts too, they need money to buy drugs, therefore they work as prostitute to earn fast money.


This is only true for many of the prostitutes walking the street (maybe even most), many of who do wind up being exploited by pimps because the prostitute can't see any other way of escaping an already bad situation. This is a little different problem than prostitution itself. In fact, making prostitution illegal is the city's main tool for dealing with streetwalkers and pimps.

I think it would be hard to make any generalizations about the more professional businesses that exist almost invisibly. Even if you know at least some of the escort services are really dealing in prostitution, their method of business seldom causes problems for the city.

Someone also mentioned that it doesn't exactly promote a good marriage. However, it also isn't the cause of the deterioration of a marriage. If someone is seeking sexual interactions with someone other than his own wife, then the marriage is already dissolving.

I'm not sure what you mean. Hopefully, you're not suggesting Clinton's Whitehouse escapades were because of Hillary. But, I agree, prostitution itself has little to do with the real problem.

[Moonbear]

Reasons to be prostitute:
1) Laziness to work, they want to get quick money by just stretching wide their legs on bed.

I'd hardly consider their profession a lazy one. First of all, they aren't looking for handouts, they ARE working. For those who operate actual businesses, it operates like any other business. For those who are out on the streets, they sure have a harder life than most who head to a cozy office during the day and push around papers on a desk. Try standing outside on a cold, winter day wearing a miniskirt.

2) Silliness and shamelessness to choose this contemptible profession

That's your own judgement of them, not something about the profession itself, so not pertinent to the discussion.

3) Most prostitute are drug addicts too, they need money to buy drugs, therefore they work as prostitute to earn fast money.

Do you really know this for certain? What about in places where prostitution is legal? Perhaps being led to drug abuse and addiction is a consequence of being marginalized in society rather than a prerequisite for joining the profession? Besides, drug addiction is not prostitution. It is a disease, and an entirely separate topic. Many movie stars also have had drug addictions, as have stock-brokers, corporate CEOs, etc. Are those all immoral professions because people in them are addicted to drugs?

4) Has no moral concience of the disgustable thing they do.

You seem to be the only one here disgusted by this. Morality is personal, so this judgement of yours is once again not a reason for the profession to be immoral, it is your own personal hang-up about it.

I was solicited by pimps and prostitutes many times before while walking on street, they just suddenly came forward to me and asked, "Do you want women? Do you want sex? It is only 100 ringgit per deal. "
It is very embaressing and insulting to me.

Perhaps the question to ask yourself is why were you embarrassed and insulted by this? Were you tempted and ashamed of your feeling of temptation? Did you envision what you would do with a prostitute and felt guilty for the things you thought about? Why is this any different to you than someone walking up and trying to sell you a watch on a street corner? Why could you not simply say, "No thank you," and keep walking without embarrassment? Perhaps it's your own morality that you question. Afterall, if you were disinterested, there would be no reason to feel embarrassment, you wouldn't feel anything about it other than turning down a sales pitch. Perhaps rather than posting this here, you should consult with a psychologist to help understand and deal with your inhibitions. It just doesn't seem healthy or natural to view sex as disgusting.

[Moonbear]

I'm not sure what you mean. Hopefully, you're not suggesting Clinton's Whitehouse escapades were because of Hillary. But, I agree, prostitution itself has little to do with the real problem.

That was my comment. I was talking about the marriage as a whole, not assigning individual blame. In Hillary's and Bill's case, I don't know what was going on behind closed doors with them. Clearly the choice to stray from the marriage was Bill's. However, he must have already been discontented with some aspect of the marriage to have even considered the option. When a happily married man is solicited by either a prostitute or just given attention by a woman in a bar, they are usually quick to respond with the line, "I'm happily married."

[humanino]

Reasons to be prostitute:
1) Laziness to work, they want to get quick money by just stretching wide their legs on bed.
2) Silliness and shamelessness to choose this contemptible profession
3) Most prostitute are drug addicts too, they need money to buy drugs, therefore they work as prostitute to earn fast money.
4) Has no moral concience of the disgustable thing they do.

You are a horrible person. Saint, please read the other posts. Either there is a deep misunderstanding here, or you keep preaching your own pseudo-moral recklessly.

I begin to feel sympathy for you (I must admit you mad me crazy more than once). The reason is : you are obviously very sick. You need professional help. I'm serious. :frown: :bugeye:

[Prometheus]

I begin to feel sympathy for you
You are being far more generous that he.

You need professional help.
Of course he does. He is probably a born again convert. Part of his duty, now that he understands the real truth, unlike his perverted porn mongering from before, is to share the real truth with the world.

Be careful of trying to get him to see the light. What happens if he considers you the next guru, and looks to you as the the only bringer of truth to the world. We would all have to sit through him with yet another set of values to avoid eternal hell.

He needs professional help. Unfortunately for us, he is looking for it on this forum.

[humanino]

You are being far more generous that he.
I am Christian :tongue2:

[humanino]

Be careful of trying to get him to see the light. What happens if he considers you the next guru, and looks to you as the the only bringer of truth to the world.
:surprise: :surprise: :surprise: :surprise: :yuck: :yuck: :yuck:
You are really scarring me here. Do you think he could find me ? :uhh: :uhh:


He needs professional help. Unfortunately for us, he is looking for it on this forum.
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
This is very true. Prometheus speaks the truth. Saint you had better choose Prometheus as a guru :tongue2: :devil:

[Entropy]

I think prostitution is immoral. If you don't see this as blindly obvious, I don't know what to say.

[humanino]

Entropy : I say please do not judge prostitutes.

[Prometheus]

This is very true. Prometheus speaks the truth. Saint you had better choose Prometheus as a guru
So, you do have a cruel streak in you after all. Saint has brought it out of you. Look at the evil that he has wrought.

[Prometheus]

I think prostitution is immoral. If you don't see this as blindly obvious, I don't know what to say.
Very cute. You do know what to say, and you have just said it.

If you think that prosititution is immoral, you certainly have the right to your opinion, and your opinion is a valid one. If you bluster about how we should recognize how obvious it is that your opinion should be our opinion, then you are just sounding like a fool.

Next time you pretend that you do not know what to say, how about saying nothing?

[humanino]

So, you do have a cruel streak in you after all. Saint has brought it out of you. Look at the evil that he has wrought.
I never pretended I am all good. God is both Good and Evil, if God is to be everything :bugeye: :uhh: :surprise:
Ooops, I might not be God. That would imply I could be only good. :biggrin:

[Prometheus]

I never pretended I am all good. God is both Good and Evil, if God is to be everything :bugeye: :uhh: :surprise:
Ooops, I might not be God. That would imply I could be only good. :biggrin:
I would not dare to attempt to refute your logic.

[Saint]

I'd hardly consider their profession a lazy one. First of all, they aren't looking for handouts, they ARE working
What kind of Work?
Tell me, if your father told you he sought prostitutes before marriage and also after marriage, what do you feel about him?

[Saint]

please don't attack me personally, stick to the topic I brought up.

[Gokul43201]

The art of non sequitur is really being honed over here, wot ?

[Jin314159]

Whore not, lest we be pimped. - Gokul 6:9

roflmao!!!

[Dooga Blackrazor]

Your still entitled to think prostitution is immoral Saint. It's just how you word things. It seems to get people to gang up on you.

I still think prostitution is immoral. I think that logically the world should become more old-fashioned in its beliefs towards relationships. By decreasing the overwhelming mass of sexuality and changing the world into a more spiritual atmosphere I believe we would be better off. The goal in mind would be to create an logical sanctity of relationships using things that are available.

I believe that the world needs to strive towards a moral standard that creates the most amount of pleasure in comparison to the least amount of pain. By creating a sacred tradition we can help fill the lack of human pride and general fulfillment of society rather than continuing on a path of hollow sexuality.

I base my morals on logic of course. I believe the true logic lies in taking in the consideration of human emotion and the environment; rationalizing.

Take language for an example. Words are logically just words. It is also logical to view them for what they mean. In the name of effeciency they work to help create pleasure for the benefit of the human race.

The tradition of creating a valued less-sexual world can bring forth an increase in pleasure. Spiritual enjoyment that is satiable rather than the temporary nature of sexuality.

Prostitution in general hampers my ideals. However in certain instances it could result in conforming with my unseen ideal of a pleasure/pain ratio. Therefore; I do not condemn every instance. There are acceptions to the rule. This would create reasoning enough to say that you shouldn't automatically judge a prostitute for their profession.

I hope I explained myself well enough. I didn't mean to offend or confuse anyone. If I did, I apologize.

[Dagenais]

For those who are out on the streets, they sure have a harder life than most who head to a cozy office during the day and push around papers on a desk. Try standing outside on a cold, winter day wearing a miniskirt.



They shouldn't be wearing miniskirts of any kind. Most of them are extremely unattractive.

Prostitution, in my opinion, is immoral and bad. Or why do women get offended when you call them one? Because it's not a good thing.

If you have to write posts after posts attempting to justify that being a prostitute is moral - then it probably isn't, or you wouldn't have to be doing so. You don't have to convince people that being an Engineer is moral.

[Math Is Hard]

You don't have to convince people that being an Engineer is moral.

well...I dunno. God wasn't too pleased about that Tower of Babel incident.
:rofl:

[Moonbear]

Prostitution, in my opinion, is immoral and bad. Or why do women get offended when you call them one? Because it's not a good thing.

Not because prostitution is necessarily a bad thing, but because when someone calls them one, it is intended as a bad thing.

If you have to write posts after posts attempting to justify that being a prostitute is moral - then it probably isn't, or you wouldn't have to be doing so. You don't have to convince people that being an Engineer is moral.

Then the same should be true if you have to write post after post attempting to justify that it is immoral. Again, morality is your own personal view. If you see it as immoral, fine, steer clear of it. Saint just repeatedly posts questions to a discussion forum, but refuses to actually discuss the topic. Instead, he just tells us what he thinks we should believe. He's more than welcome to tell us what he believes or thinks, but he is not welcome to tell me what I should think, at least not without a very convincing argument.

I will also point out that I'm not arguing that prostitution is moral. I don't think that to go out and live a good life, everyone needs to be a prostitute. I'm just saying I don't think it's immoral. It's a profession, nothing more. Morality lies at the individual level.

[Dagenais]

Not because prostitution is necessarily a bad thing, but because when someone calls them one, it is intended as a bad thing.



Probably because it is a bad thing.

Would you be happy if you found out your mother was a prostitute? If you angrily answered, "NO you jerk, what are you implying!?", then you're normal, plus, you realize that prostitution is a no-no.

"You" as in general public, since you already said you aren't arguing this.

Then the same should be true if you have to write post after post attempting to justify that it is immoral.

A lot have agreed that it is immoral, then stopped there. It's just a couple of people that keep on pressing the point that there is nothing wrong with it and this causes argument.

It's like how poker players try to convince the IOC and everyone else that poker should be an Olympic Sport. They start petitions, buy commercial times and compare themselves to synchronize swimming. If poker was really a sport, they wouldn't have to try so hard to convince everyone. It would have automatically been one along with basketball, wrestling, track. Instead, they are trying to convince us of something that isn't true.

Again, morality is your own personal view

You do realize that there is a such thing as bad or no moral at all. That sort of thing can land you in jail.

There are sets of basic moral that general society accepts. The problem with your country is that some refuse to realize this, thus, you have problems.

He's more than welcome to tell us what he believes or thinks, but he is not welcome to tell me what I should think, at least not without a very convincing argument.



If you don't like the way he posts, why are you replying to his thread (which is surprisingly popular). Why don't you just add him to your ignore list if you don't appreciate his comments?

I don't think that to go out and live a good life, everyone needs to be a prostitute.

I would hope not.

I'm just saying I don't think it's immoral. It's a profession, nothing more. Morality lies at the individual level.

So, you are arguing that it is moral, contrary to what you said before (I reply as I read).

I use to believe this - since its just another industry that doesn't harm anyone else besides the 'buyer' and 'seller'. Then I realized what these people were really selling. Again, something taken way too lightly in your country.

[cragwolf]

I use to believe this - since its just another industry that doesn't harm anyone else besides the 'buyer' and 'seller'. Then I realized what these people were really selling.

What are they selling? What does a bricklayer sell? What does a tech support worker sell? What's the difference?

[Prometheus]

Again, something taken way too lightly in your country.
Unlike your country, where no one at all recognizes prostitution as moral, and no one makes use of them.

I use to believe this - since its just another industry that doesn't harm anyone else besides the 'buyer' and 'seller'.
Oh, great. The old "I used to think like you" speech.

Would you be happy if you found out your mother was a prostitute? If you angrily answered, "NO you jerk, what are you implying!?", then you're normal, plus, you realize that prostitution is a no-no.
Not only is this ridiculous example irrelevant to the question at hand, but I contend that no one would EVER answer as you said under the conditions that you provided. Your "answer" is a non-sequitur, as is your entire argument, in my opinion.

A lot have agreed that it is immoral, then stopped there. It's just a couple of people that keep on pressing the point that there is nothing wrong with it and this causes argument.
Surprise. You have the situation reversed. Its just a couple of people like you who keep pressing their morality on every one else.

It's like how poker players try to convince the IOC and everyone else that poker should be an Olympic Sport. They start petitions, buy commercial times and compare themselves to synchronize swimming. If poker was really a sport, they wouldn't have to try so hard to convince everyone. It would have automatically been one along with basketball, wrestling, track. Instead, they are trying to convince us of something that isn't true.
You call this an example? OK, why not read it to understand what everyone thinks of your "argument".

[Dagenais]

Unlike your country, where no one at all recognizes prostitution as moral, and no one makes use of them.

A lot less than in the United States. I've lived in British Columbia for almost a decade, and I've seen one street whore. And I've frequented the streets of Vancouver at night.

Not only is this ridiculous example irrelevant to the question at hand


It's very relevant. The problem with you is that anything that contradicts whatever point you don't have is "irrelevant". It makes it so pathetic replying to you.

Its just a couple of people like you who keep pressing their morality on every one else.

No, not really. I said, "In my opinion". Stop implying things that I never said, again, this makes writing to you a complete waste of time.

[Saint]

nobody will be proud if his/her mother is a whore.
this simply implies that being a whore is ashamed! And therefore immoral. Nothing moral is to be ashamed of.

[check]

But that doesn't mean that everything there is to be ashamed of is immoral.

[Saint]

protitution is inherently/obviously/absolutely a shame, disgrace, humiliation, and therefore immoral.

[check]

You do realize that not everybody shares the same set of morals, don't you? You are not the morality judge.

[Gokul43201]

Check, I suggest you rest those fingers...this thread is going nowhere !

[Prometheus]

And I've frequented the streets of Vancouver at night.
In that case, why not keep your pathetic responses to yourself, and go frequent the streets at night to check for prostitutes.

[Prometheus]

protitution is inherently/obviously/absolutely a shame, disgrace, humiliation, and therefore immoral.
Saint is inherently/obviously/absolutely a shame, disgrace, humiliation, and therefore immoral.

[Evo]

Let's try to keep this about the topic and not get personal.

[Gokul43201]

Let's try to keep this about the topic and not get personal.

I agree with the sentiment of this warning. But the nature of the original (and successive) posts seems to say that those who disagree with Saint's opinion are automatically deemed immoral. The thread itself is all about 'getting personal'.

Just my opinion...

[Moonbear]

A lot less than in the United States. I've lived in British Columbia for almost a decade, and I've seen one street whore. And I've frequented the streets of Vancouver at night.

I take it you've never been to Toronto then? It's also a pretty naive view that all prostitutes are out walking the streets.

And, no, I'm not saying it's moral, or immoral. I see it as something that is morally neutral.

[arildno]

The moral immaturity of individuals like dagenais and saint is, unfortunately, very common among religious people. Having no ability to be participants in a rational or reasoned discussion of anything (their scriptural outlook is antithetical to reason), they resort to flinging catch-words and abuse at anyone who happens to disagree with them.

The real culprit, however, is the particular brand of religion which happens to keep them shackled and strait-jacketed into a very primitive existence form, bordering on non-humanity.
Whether to pity or be disgusted with such malfunctionals is hard to tell; regarding them as worthy of the epithet "rational adults" is out of the question.

[Artman]

The moral immaturity of individuals like dagenais and saint is, unfortunately, very common among religious people. Having no ability to be participants in a rational or reasoned discussion of anything (their scriptural outlook is antithetical to reason), they resort to flinging catch-words and abuse at anyone who happens to disagree with them.
This is unsubstantiated opinion, presented as fact.

The real culprit, however, is the particular brand of religion which happens to keep them shackled and strait-jacketed into a very primitive existence form, bordering on non-humanity.
Again, this is unsubstantiated opinion, presented as fact.

Let's look at prostitution rationally then. First of all, prostitution is illegal in much of the world, which means the participants are criminals; to cover their involvement they are also liars, listing their profession as exotic dancer, massage therapist, escorts, etc.; and because it is an unregulated industry it forces them to hide their activities in sordid environments (cheap hotels, rooms rented by the hour, backallies, cars, truckstops), and work under pressure to avoid detection. Their profession spreads disease; their profession causes homes to breakup; their profession works on human frailties, to extract money by tempting individual urges and weaknesses (legally prostitution is considered a vice).

Let's not judge the participants, but is this really the description of a moral activity?

[cragwolf]

Let's look at prostitution rationally then. First of all, prostitution is illegal in much of the world, which means the participants are criminals; to cover their involvement they are also liars, listing their profession as exotic dancer, massage therapist, escorts, etc.; and because it is an unregulated industry it forces them to hide their activities in sordid environments (cheap hotels, rooms rented by the hour, backallies, cars, truckstops), and work under pressure to avoid detection.

First of all, prostitution is legal in many parts of the world, which means the participants aren't criminals, they're not liars, and the industry is regulated. So the crucial difference here is the legality of the act. If you made the consumption of alcohol illegal, then you would also get liars, sordidness, and surreptitiousness. Is the consumption of alcohol immoral?

Their profession spreads disease...

Only if it is unregulated or not properly regulated. Many products would have dangerous health effects if their manufacture and distribution was not properly regulated.

...their profession causes homes to breakup

No, the married man (or woman) who chooses to obtain these services causes homes to be broken up. It's not the axe, but the axe-murderer we throw into jail.

their profession works on human frailties, to extract money by tempting individual urges and weaknesses.

:rofl: Congratulations, you have just discovered what consumerism and capitalism is based on. Buying and eating chocolate is immoral!

Let's not judge the participants, but is this really the description of a moral activity?

Well, this is the question, but you really ought to be consistent when you judge prostitution to be immoral. If prostitution is immoral then so is any service that involves the renting of a body and/or mind (i.e. every job in existence!) Or if you're not going to be consistent, then explain why.

[aychamo]

protitution is inherently/obviously/absolutely a shame, disgrace, humiliation, and therefore immoral.

My mother and my grandmother are prostitutes and I am very proud of them. Their prostitution puts clothes on my back and food on my table.

[arildno]

Let's look at prostitution rationally then. First of all, prostitution is illegal in much of the world, which means the participants are BRANDED AS criminals; to cover their involvement they are also liars, listing their profession as exotic dancer, massage therapist, escorts, etc.; and because it is an unregulated AND BRANDED industry it forces them to hide their activities in sordid environments (cheap hotels, rooms rented by the hour, backallies, cars, truckstops), and work under pressure to avoid detection.

Since your post missed some crucial words in order to be a rational statement, I have inserted them for you :smile:

Rational outlook on prostitution:
A prostitute provides the service of physical pleasure&release for a paying customer.
In my opinion, it is quite nice of them to be willing to provide such a service for those in need of it.
There is nothing inherently reprehensible about prostitution.

[Artman]

First of all, prostitution is legal in many parts of the world, which means the participants aren't criminals, they're not liars, and the industry is regulated. So the crucial difference here is the legality of the act.
This is my opinion on the subject. Prostitution, as with other vices, is considered by many a victimless crime, which opens it for consideration for legalization. Legalizing vices is not done because the activity is desirable, or moral, but because it can be better regulated when legal.

If you made the consumption of alcohol illegal, then you would also get liars, sordidness, and surreptitiousness. Is the consumption of alcohol immoral?
alcohol abuse (http://alcoholism.about.com/cs/alerts/l/blnaa11.htm)
This actually supports my previous statement. Just because something has been legalized does not make it right. Prohibition just doesn't work.
"Alcohol abuse and its related problems cost society many billions of dollars each year"

Only if it is unregulated or not properly regulated. Many products would have dangerous health effects if their manufacture and distribution was not properly regulated.
Gosh, even regulation doesn't stop alcohol abuse from costing billions of dollars a year.

Why don't you ask the spouse of an alcoholic how moral their spouse's drinking problem is. (Ask them after they drank away the rent money.)

No, the married man (or woman) who chooses to obtain these services causes homes to be broken up. It's not the axe, but the axe-murderer we throw into jail.
Yeah, the person shooting the gun not the gun. Still doesn't make the gun right.

:rofl: Congratulations, you have just discovered what consumerism and capitalism is based on. Buying and eating chocolate is immoral!
I love chocolate. I also have low blood sugar, a tendency to overindulge in candy, and a family history of diabetes. Perhaps for me it should be immoral.

Well, this is the question, but you really ought to be consistent when you judge prostitution to be immoral. If prostitution is immoral then so is any service that involves the renting of a body and/or mind (i.e. every job in existence!) Or if you're not going to be consistent, then explain why.
This is actually a good argument. Obviously this is a moral dilemma for some people (just look at the number of responses here). I still contend that In countries and areas where the business is illegal, I think that it is immoral a well.

[Artman]

My mother and my grandmother are prostitutes and I am very proud of them. Their prostitution puts clothes on my back and food on my table.
All question of morallity aside. I am glad that you are proud of your family.

I am curious though, aren't you also worried about them? Prostitution is a dangerous line of work. To be so vulnerable around strangers. I imagine it takes a brave woman.

[Prometheus]

I still contend that In countries and areas where the business is illegal, I think that it is immoral a well.
Do you consider that your opinion that prostitution is immoral is subjective, such that other people should be free to hold any opinion that they wish on the morality of prostitution, or do you believe that your opinion othat prostitution is immoral is objective, such that people who disagree with you are wrong and should learn to believe as rightly as you do?

[humanino]

"Alcohol abuse and its related problems cost society many billions of dollars each year"


Gosh, even regulation doesn't stop alcohol abuse from costing billions of dollars a year.


Alcohol brings a lot of money too. In France we export a lot of wine :tongue2:

[arildno]

This is unsubstantiated opinion, presented as fact.

Actually, it is not, since by following the "Word of God", scripturally minded Christians are obliged from time to time to commit murder, amongst other atrocities ("Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live")
Scripturally minded Christians deserve no respect whatsoever for their perverted morality view.

[Dagenais]

In that case, why not keep your pathetic responses to yourself

I called your posts pathetic, then using the same insult against me is what a 3rd grader would do. Unless you can come up with something better than a, "I know you are but what am I?" reply, stop talking to me.

It's also a pretty naive view that all prostitutes are out walking the streets.



Street hos are the most accessible and common.

The moral immaturity of individuals like dagenais and saint is, unfortunately, very common among religious peop

Stop assuming things.

Let's not judge the participants, but is this really the description of a moral activity?

No, of course not. It's dead obvious that prostitution is immoral. And if asked in real life, everyone here would agree. Of course, on the internet, people are vastly different.

My mother and my grandmother are prostitutes and I am very proud of them

An example of people being different on the internet than in real life. They are a lot ruder and say a lot of things they'd never say IRL.

First-off, your parents are not prostitutes.

He would have never even thought of saying that in real life to a group of people, because that would be embarrassing and disrespectful. He's been disrespectful to the point of banning at other forums. I'm sure you would have the bravery to say that during your job/college interviews too, that selling sex is so moral you would be proud if your mother did it? So don't disrespect us and say it in front of us just because we aren't right in front of you.

[humanino]

Dagenais I don't know you, but you could please show a little more respect. Please re-read the words you use in your last paragraph. Think about the person that is sharing facts about his family with you, and the way you reply to that.

[Dagenais]

Dagenais I don't know you, but you could please show a little more respect. Please re-read the words you use in your last paragraph. Think about the person that is sharing facts about his family with you, and the way you reply to that.

His parents aren't prostitutes. I've frequented forums he's been at, and he's stirred up trouble to the point of banning before. He'll say just about anything to prove his point.

I am not assuming anything about you dagenais

Yes you are. Especially since your assumption about me was incorrect.

You didn't even assume based on facts. Quebec is known for its population of Roman Catholics, not protestant Christians. At least try to assume correctly.

which is not obvious from your own posts.

Uh huh... :uhh:

You are a moral and intellectual failure.

Intellectual failures are those trying to justify selling sex and exploitation of women as an ethical business.

Moral failures are accusing and putting the people that don't agree with you into religious groups in which you obviously look down upon.

they resort to flinging catch-words and abuse at anyone who happens to disagree with them.



So an example would be...you?

[arildno]

I am not assuming anything about you dagenais which is not obvious from your own posts. You are a moral and intellectual failure.

[humanino]

I wish this discussion could go somewhere. Several persons tried to bring facts and thoughts related to the discussion, other only seem to display their own conceptions without even reading other posts. Make sure to realize it is just a discussion : no true forbideness of prostitution will come out of it !

Apparently it is doomed to closure by moderators. This is sad.

[Entropy]

Very cute. You do know what to say, and you have just said it.

What are getting at? I implied that I think prostitution is immoral and if you think it is moral I can't fathom your thought process. Whats wrong with that?

If you think that prosititution is immoral, you certainly have the right to your opinion, and your opinion is a valid one. If you bluster about how we should recognize how obvious it is that your opinion should be our opinion, then you are just sounding like a fool.

When did I say you should recognize how obvious it is? I implied it was blindly obvious to me. Nothing in my post implies anything negative against people who don't see it as obvious.

Next time you pretend that you do not know what to say, how about saying nothing?

How about next time you read people posts a little more clearly before you go off attacking people?

[Artman]

Do you consider that your opinion that prostitution is immoral is subjective, such that other people should be free to hold any opinion that they wish on the morality of prostitution, or do you believe that your opinion othat prostitution is immoral is objective, such that people who disagree with you are wrong and should learn to believe as rightly as you do?
The issue is certainly subjective. I try not to impose my moral standards on anyone. I know a lot of what I do is not up to the standards of others. :smile:

Although I consider myself a Christian, many of my thoughts would be considered heretical by some of the more conservative churchs.

[Saint]

No one would like his own wife/daughter/sister/mother to be prostitute, this simply points out that prostitution is bad!

[Moonbear]

Street hos are the most accessible and common.

You claim to have only seen one in your life; they don't sound that accessible and common. You just don't know where to look (reasonable since it's clear that you aren't interested in looking).

No, of course not. It's dead obvious that prostitution is immoral. And if asked in real life, everyone here would agree. Of course, on the internet, people are vastly different.

That's blatantly untrue. I would give you the exact same answers in real life as I would here. But, in real life, I probably wouldn't try to be as restrained with my tone and word-choice.

[Gokul43201]

<I sense a lock-down>

[Dagenais]

You claim to have only seen one in your life; they don't sound that accessible and common.

In Vancouver. Stop manipulating what I say.

[cragwolf]

I respect your opinions, Artman. Food for thought.

[Moonbear]

In Vancouver. Stop manipulating what I say.

Especially in Vancouver! I was actually surprised to see that Canadian law actually allows anyone over the age of 14 to sell sexual services, not even 18 at the legal limit! Though they do have a funny catch-22. It's not legal to buy sexual services from anyone under 18. :confused:

http://www.discovervancouver.com/GVB/prostute.asp

http://www.rapereliefshelter.bc.ca/issues/prostitution_residential.html

The second link explains why you don't see them out on the street. It is legal for prostitutes to operate out of their residences, but not to solicit on the street.

[Jin314159]

No one would like his own wife/daughter/sister/mother to be prostitute, this simply points out that prostitution is bad!

[irrelevant random comment that just sounds cool] Don't hate tha playa. Hate tha game. [/irrelevant random comment that just sounds cool]

[Artman]

I respect your opinions, Artman. Food for thought.
Thank you cragwolf. :smile: I respect your opinions as well, they are well thought out and well presented.

[Artman]

Since your post missed some crucial words in order to be a rational statement, I have inserted them for you :smile:

Rational outlook on prostitution:
A prostitute provides the service of physical pleasure&release for a paying customer.
In my opinion, it is quite nice of them to be willing to provide such a service for those in need of it.
There is nothing inherently reprehensible about prostitution.
A lot of this question of morality hinges on the participants. Are they married? Are they healthy?

If they are married, they are breaking vows. If they are not healthy (AIDS, or some other STD) they are possibly endangering the life of the other.

What do you think? Is prostitution still moral under these conditions?

[arildno]

True enough; but these are particulars which cannot determine the moral value of a given prostitution act in the general case (they are modifiers).

Basically, you bring up issues which are by no means necessarily combined with prostitution, and seem to think those moral issues are necessarily relevant in your evaluation of prostitution.

[Zantra]

Is prostitution illegal? in most places in the world, no doubt. Does it run rampant in many parts of the world? Absolutely. Immorality is a subjective word, which means it's opinion based. However, consider this for a moment:

Every day around the world countless millions of people go on "dates". The guys take the girl out to the movies, to dinner, to plays, to concerts, etc.. And the majority of the time who pays? The guy. This is by design, and how society works. What is the goal of the guy? In most cases, sex. Are there exceptions to the rule? absolutely. But when you're talking about a first date, it's sex. We may use euphamisms like " getting to know each other" but goal is one and the same. Is this not a form of prostitution in the literal sense ? Each time a guy buys dinner, pays for the movie, pays for drinks, pays for concert tickets, is he not hoping for sex? Now before the women and religious fanatics jump all over me, let me preface by saying that I'm only illustrating a point, not make a statement. Society walks a fine line of morality. If you took at prostitute to dinner instead of handing her the 50 bucks you would have given her, does that now make her a "date"?

Now, not every woman is just trying to get a free meal and a movie, just like every guy's goal isn't to get sex(ok some guys). My point is that you can easily blur the line between illegal sex act and courting ritual by simply changing your viewpoint or the method of payment. Personally, I feel it's a matter of choice. Women CHOOSE to be prostitutes. They CHOOSE to have sex for money. It's not a forced act. And it all goes to the deeper, darker side of humanity- our base insticts and appetites. It's supply and demand. There's a demand for sex, and since some men can't get that demand filled by regular means, they choose prostitution.

Let me ask you this-if a woman just gave sex to men freely with no demand for any form of payment other than the act itsself, would she still be considered immoral? Women have the same needs as men. Women have casual sex all the time, and they are deemed "liberated". But if you add money into the equation, she's suddenly a "whore". It's inferred that a prostitute recieves no recipricol gratification for the act, and thus it's reduced to a business transaction. So does that mean if that if she did recieve some sort of gratification from the act, that it can be no longer considered prostitution?

Funny how we twist things to suit our own views.

And for the record, I've never seen a prostitute in person.

[Dooga Blackrazor]

I don't agree with taking someone out and then having sex with them immediately afterwards. I think relationships and the potential of symbiotic joinings should over-power lust. People should get to know and like each other first. Maybe that doesn't seem like the most logical thing to most but I feel it is. If we can take the potential of relationships to create more long term happiness for the world, it would be a great accomplishment.

[Zantra]

So based on your views (which we can assume is the majority viewpoint of the conservatives in this thread) when can safely say you're not a supporter of casual sex, and you're entitled to your view. And let's assume the moral majority believe casual sex to be immoral. However, should we make casual sex illegal, or is it still freedom of choice? How would the country react if a law was proposed to ban sex on a first date(we'll stay away from the logistics of enforcement for now- it's just going to my point). There are many who want the choice of that right. An argument could be made that it is possible to have a "connection" on a first date.

This is a ripple effect that the conservatives in the country started. It goes to gay rights, to abortion, to religion in school. It's a cascading affect. What it comes down to is that conservates are not tolerant of ANY view but thier own. Coming from a family of conservatives, I speak from experience. It's thier way or the highway, and there's only on possible right way: thier way.

So the question comes up: where do you draw the line? Where do you decide that freedom of choice can be overriden by the rights of others, because it affects other people? If prostitution is a victimless crime, and it doesn't affect other people, It's technically a violation of our rights. However, the bible thumpers would have you believe otherwise, and so it's illegal. I think when someone else's moral views enchroach upon another person's lifestyle choices, it defeats the purpose of freedom. But that's my view

[Nooac]

slander is a FALSE charge
so true facts cannot be slander

and if a group has a true history of immoral acts
in my oppinon that shows their true nature far better then
all their moral BS

watch what they do, before following what they say
or as JC said it " actions not words "


ray b, I know what slander is; my original statement stands. Do you know what ad hominem means?

[Nooac]

When YOU consider these factors, it seems apparent to ME...




How pedantic of you. I guess I'm lucky I did not use a preposition to end my sentence with.

[Saint]

case close, conclusion is Prostitution is Bad.

[Gokul43201]

case close, conclusion is Prostitution is Bad.

Hooray !! Can we close this thread now ? :tongue2:

[Artman]

case close, conclusion is Prostitution is Bad.
For me and for you it is bad. I have listed several reasons why I think it is bad, as you have.

Let me ask you something, and this is where the dilema is for me, what if a young woman gets trapped into prostitution. Say she is an uneducated runaway. She hates the business, but her pimp keeps her in it. She is afraid to leave and unable to quit. Is she immoral? The pimp is -- I don't even find this point debateable -- but is the prostitute?

Morality has a lot to do with the situation. Killing for most people is immoral, was killing Hitler?

[Math Is Hard]

Hooray !! Can we close this thread now ? :tongue2:

I agree. This topic is getting weary. :zzz:

[Dooga Blackrazor]

Zanta: I don't think we will should go around banning sexual freedom.

However I believe by exploiting sexuality the way society does, pleasure that could be gained from relationships is lost. Basically the current situation gains the world pleasure but denies it a pleasure I believe to be even greater.

People seem to be quick to lean towards occasional pleasure rather than look and seek fufillment. I often look at society as a group of children. If you put some children in a room and put in a video game and two games. One game is easy and fun immediately while the other is said to be more enjoyable, but hard to get used to.

Most kids would probably go for the quick fix. By putting prostitutions on the street avaliable for use I believe people are being deprived of a higher enjoyment.

Most people aren't extremely good at doing the most moral thing. It's often hard for the strongest people to do the best thing. By taking away the knife people are less likely to get stabbed. Society doesn't evolve and learn as well as an optomistic person would like. I believe limits need to be set.

I'm not trying to press my beliefs on anyone. I just enjoy discussing issues.

[Dagenais]

The pimp is -- I don't even find this point debateable -- but is the prostitute?



In what way is the pimp keeping her in it? You've got to be more specific.

I believe that Hitler killed himself?

[Prometheus]

In what way is the pimp keeping her in it? You've got to be more specific.
"You've got to..." A very polite way for you to ask for more information.

Do you seriously not know how a pimp might force a girl into prostitution, or do you just wonder if others know?

[Moonbear]

In what way is the pimp keeping her in it? You've got to be more specific.

Does it matter exactly how? There is more than one way. In that case, the pimp is forcing the prostitute to do something against her will, so, yes, the pimp is immoral. The prostitute is not consenting. In this case, it becomes rape. I have less of a question of the morality of the prostitute in this case (she is given no choice, so is a victim) as to that of the john, who is essentially the rapist. Does it matter that he doesn't know she is not consenting? Is he guilty of rape, or another victim of the pimp?

[Zantra]

Zanta: I don't think we will should go around banning sexual freedom.

However I believe by exploiting sexuality the way society does, pleasure that could be gained from relationships is lost. Basically the current situation gains the world pleasure but denies it a pleasure I believe to be even greater.

People seem to be quick to lean towards occasional pleasure rather than look and seek fufillment. I often look at society as a group of children. If you put some children in a room and put in a video game and two games. One game is easy and fun immediately while the other is said to be more enjoyable, but hard to get used to.

Most kids would probably go for the quick fix. By putting prostitutions on the street avaliable for use I believe people are being deprived of a higher enjoyment.

Most people aren't extremely good at doing the most moral thing. It's often hard for the strongest people to do the best thing. By taking away the knife people are less likely to get stabbed. Society doesn't evolve and learn as well as an optimistic person would like. I believe limits need to be set.

I'm not trying to press my beliefs on anyone. I just enjoy discussing issues.

While traditional relationships work for the majority of people, for some it does not. I won't go into the various reasons guys use prostitutes. They all have thier reasons I'm sure. But obviously there's a need or there wouldn't be any prostitution to begin with. Personally, I've never been with one, nor do I personally know anyone who has. But I still recognize that it's a business and They are filling a need which doesn't affect anyone outside of the 2 people involved, who are both consenting adults. Freedom of choice.

To stay with the video game analogy, for some men they'd rather play a quick game of pac man because they don't have time for a long drawn out game like final fantasy. They don't have time to sit and develop a relationship and all that goes with it. They just want to satisfy thier physical need and that's it. Inferring that they don't know how to have a proper relationship, or that they won't develop emotionally is a big generalizing stretch. Maybe it's the guy's bachelor party. Maybe he's between relationships and doesn't want to become entagled with someone. There are many valid reasons for doing it. Everyone who uses a prostitute isn't the dreg of society-just ask Heidi Fliece(sp?)

[Dagenais]

Does it matter exactly how?

Yes, of course!

There is more than one way.

That is why it matters!

Is he guilty of rape, or another victim of the pimp?

Is the pimp the rapist? Doesn't he have to technically have intercourse with the girl?

So, he's guilty of being a pimp - not a rapist.

[Artman]

In what way is the pimp keeping her in it? You've got to be more specific.

I believe that Hitler killed himself?
Yeah, I think you're right about Hitler, it was probably the most moral thing he ever did.

I said that she is afraid to leave, this implies threat of violence. As others have said, she is not willing, he is keeping her in the business, so this is involuntary servitude (slavery). in the USA it is not only illegal, but unconstitutional. Since she dislikes the business and is an unwilling particiapant in the sex act, the pimp is also guilty of accessory to rape because he is aware that a rape is taking place and is not making any attempt to stop it.