How Does Mass and Tension Affect Wavelength in a Frictionless System?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the effects of mass and tension on the wavelength of small-amplitude standing waves on a string, specifically in a system where one end of the string is fixed and the other is attached to a mass that can slide on a frictionless rod. Participants explore the implications of neglecting gravity and consider various conditions that determine the wavelength.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion about the role of the mass attached to the string when gravity is neglected, questioning what effect it has on the system.
  • Another participant suggests that while there is no gravitational force acting on the mass, it still contributes inertia, which affects the wavelength.
  • Limits are proposed for the cases when the mass approaches zero and infinity, with specific wavelengths suggested for each limit.
  • Multiple conditions for determining the wavelength are presented, including various mathematical relationships involving mass per unit length and tension.
  • Participants reference external resources to clarify the problem and provide context for their discussion.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the implications of neglecting gravity, and there are differing interpretations of how the mass affects the wavelength. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the best approach to the problem.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes assumptions about the system's behavior under different conditions, such as the limits of mass approaching zero or infinity, which may not be fully explored or agreed upon by all participants.

quantumworld
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Another mind boggling problem,
any effort will be relieving...

here it is:
Small-amplitude standing waves of wavelength lambda occur on a string with tension T, mass per unit length mue , and length L. One end of the string is fixed and the other end is attached to a ring of mass M that slides on a frictionless rod. When gravity is neglected, which of the following conditions correctly determines the wavelength? ( you might want to consider the limiting cases M->0 and M->infinity.
(A) mue/M = (2pie/lambda)cot(2pie*L/lambda)
(B) mue/M = (2pie/lambda)tan(2pie*L/lambda)
(C) mue/M = (2pie/lambda)sin(2pie*L/lambda)
(D) Lambda = 2L/n, n=1,2,3...
(E) Lambda = 2L/(n+1/2), n=1,2,3...

my confusion starts with neglecting gravity, what will the added ring do, if no gravity is present?
to see the problem with a figure, please click on the link below, it is #85
http://ftp.ets.org/pub/gre/Physics.pdf
 
Last edited by a moderator:
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quantumworld said:
to see the problem with a figure, please click on the link below, it is #85

No, it isn't. I also tried searching for "standing waves", with zero instances found.
 
Sorry Tom,
that question was there couple months ago, it seems that they posted a new one now, I should have double checked before I posted it. but here is my attempted picture:

*fixed end *wavy string *end attached to a ring that slides on a stick

SOrry again, I was trying to draw it, but it was crooked when I posted it.
I will try to search more for that test, to see if it is still somewhere online.
THank you so much for your efforts.
 
Last edited:
TOm,
I finally did find that test! page 54 and #85
here it is! :)
http://phys.columbia.edu/~hbar/Physics-GRE.pdf
 
Last edited by a moderator:
quantumworld said:
Another mind boggling problem,
any effort will be relieving...

here it is:
Small-amplitude standing waves of wavelength lambda occur on a string with tension T, mass per unit length mue , and length L. One end of the string is fixed and the other end is attached to a ring of mass M that slides on a frictionless rod. When gravity is neglected, which of the following conditions correctly determines the wavelength? ( you might want to consider the limiting cases M->0 and M->infinity.
(A) mue/M = (2pie/lambda)cot(2pie*L/lambda)
(B) mue/M = (2pie/lambda)tan(2pie*L/lambda)
(C) mue/M = (2pie/lambda)sin(2pie*L/lambda)
(D) Lambda = 2L/n, n=1,2,3...
(E) Lambda = 2L/(n+1/2), n=1,2,3...

my confusion starts with neglecting gravity, what will the added ring do, if no gravity is present?
to see the problem with a figure, please click on the link below, it is #85
http://ftp.ets.org/pub/gre/Physics.pdf

About what confuses you... there is no gravitational force on M but it does provide inertia. Consider the limit [itex]M \rightarrow \infty[/itex], then the possible wavelengths are [itex]\lambda = 2L, L, 2L/3...[/itex]. On the other hand, in the limit [itex]M \rightarrow 0[/itex], we have [itex]\lambda = 4L, 4L/3 ...[/itex] (fixed end/free end boundary conditions). using those limits, it's easy to pick the correct answer.

Pat
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Bingo Pat!
thanks so much! I just couldn't see it on my own :bugeye: ...
 
quantumworld said:
Bingo Pat!
thanks so much! I just couldn't see it on my own :bugeye: ...

You're very welcome.

It's always nice to get a thank you for answering a question :biggrin:
 

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