How Does Coulomb's Law and Vectors Determine the Direction of Force?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around understanding how Coulomb's Law and vector representation determine the direction of the force between two charges. It explores the relationship between the signs of the charges and the resulting force direction, touching on both theoretical and conceptual aspects of electromagnetism.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion about how to determine the direction of the force since the signs of the charges are not explicitly included in Coulomb's Law, questioning if they should multiply the vector by -1 based on the signs.
  • Another participant asserts that the signs are indeed included in Coulomb's Law, suggesting that the product of the charges indicates the nature of the force (repulsive or attractive).
  • A participant provides a mathematical expression for the force, clarifying that the direction is determined by the unit vector pointing from one charge to the other, and explains how the signs of the charges affect the force's direction based on their product.
  • It is noted that if the product of the charges is positive, the force is repulsive, while if it is negative, the force is attractive.
  • A later reply acknowledges a misunderstanding regarding the unit vector's role in the equation, indicating a realization about how the signs relate to the force's direction.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the clarity of how the signs of the charges relate to the direction of the force, with some asserting that the signs are inherently part of the law while others initially question this aspect. The discussion reflects a mix of agreement on the mathematical formulation but uncertainty in the conceptual understanding.

Contextual Notes

Some participants highlight potential confusion regarding the application of vectors in the context of Coulomb's Law, particularly in how the unit vector interacts with the signs of the charges. There is also an acknowledgment of a misunderstanding that may have led to incorrect assumptions about the relationship between the magnitude and direction of the force.

bifodus
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To find the magnitude of a force between two charges is very simple, but to get the direction of the force seems a little strange to me. The signs of the charges aren't included anywhere in the law, so does this mean that I literally have to think "the signs are opposite, therefore I will multiply the vector by -1 (or leave it positive, depending on my reference coordinates)"? This seems a little bit cumbersome and forced to me, and apparently not derived anywhere in the mathematics of it. Am I going about doing this the right way?

I'm quite accustomed with vectors (vector calculus and linear algebra background), but very new to e&m. Any help would be much appreciated.
 
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The signs are included in Coulomb's law.
 
"The signs of the charges are not included anywhere in the law". Hmmmmmmmmmmm.
I have a good book with an equation that should help you out.

F= C q1 q2 / r12^2 * (r12)/r12

Where the bolds are vectors, the regular font is scalar
and r12 =r1-r2
where r1 is the location of the q1 and
r2 is the location of q2

If I'm not too clear, I'll fix it up some more
 
The "force on q1 due to q2" is (in agreement with sinyud)
[tex]\vec F_{on\ q_1\ due\ to\ q_2} = k\frac{q_1 q_2}{r_{12}{}^2} \hat r_{12}[/tex]
where [itex]\hat r_{12}[/itex] is the unit vector at the target charge [itex]q_1[/itex] pointing away from the source charge [itex]q_2[/itex] and
[itex]r_{12}[/itex] is the distance to the target charge [itex]q_1[/itex] from the source charge [itex]q_2[/itex].

If the product [itex]q_1q_2[/itex] is positive (so they have like signs), then,
since [itex]\hat r_{12}[/itex] points away from [itex]q_2[/itex], it follows that[itex]\vec F_{on\ q_1\ due\ to\ q_2}[/itex] points away from [itex]q_2[/itex].
"[itex]q_1[/itex] is repelled by [itex]q_2[/itex]."

If the product [itex]q_1q_2[/itex] is negative (so they have unlike signs), then,
since [itex]\hat r_{12}[/itex] points away from [itex]q_2[/itex], it follows that [itex]\vec F_{on\ q_1\ due\ to\ q_2}[/itex] points towards [itex]q_2[/itex].
"[itex]q_1[/itex] is attracted to [itex]q_2[/itex]."
 
Ahh, thanks guys. For some reason I was attaching the unit vector to the equation for the magnitude of the force, which obviously removes the signs from the charges. Major brain fart.

Thanks again.
 

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