WANNA WORK IN THE USA (and make lots of money) [Archive]

marlon

Sep22-04, 04:40 AM

Here is a question people...

I have a master degree in theoretical physics and in (hopefully) two years time i will have a master degree in applied physics from the university of Ghent in Belgium.

I wanna work in high-tech industries in the best nation of the world : USA

WHAT DO I DO ???

any tips???

regards
marlon :cool:

recon

Sep22-04, 04:48 AM

:rofl: When I saw the title of this thread, I thought that spammers had finally infiltrated PF. I'm from the US, so I can't help you. :smile:

[EDIT: D'OH! What I meant was: I'm NOT from the US, so I can't help you.]

Gokul43201

Sep22-04, 09:17 AM

3 different routes come to mind (others might suggest better options). I list these in an order that I believe goes from highest likelihood of success to the lowest. They also, unfortunately - for that is life - go in the order of longest time taken to least.

#1) Apply for a PhD at US Universities. If you apply smartly and wisely, I believe you'll get into a pretty good school. Most schools give you the option to test out of PhD coursework. Then, depending on the group, you may be able to graduate in as little as 3 years or as many as 6. After you graduate with a PhD. your chances of getting an Industry job are really good.

#2) Apply for jobs in multinational Technology companies (such as Phillips) that will hire you in Europe, but could give you the opportunity to transfer to a US location after some experience.

#3) Apply directly for jobs with American Companies. This has a low likelihood of success, but may be worth a shot anyway.

Why do you want to leave Europe for the US ? Have you visited here before or spent any amount of time in the US in the past ?

humanino

Sep22-04, 09:28 AM

#1) Apply for a PhD at US Universities. If you apply smartly and wisely, I believe you'll get into a pretty good school. Most schools give you the option to test out of PhD coursework. Then, depending on the group, you may be able to graduate in as little as 3 years or as many as 6. After you graduate with a PhD. your chances of getting an Industry job are really good.

I am getting a french PhD, but working constantly here, on an experiment in one of your facilities. I guess this is not the same as getting it from one of your universities.

marlon

Sep22-04, 09:30 AM

Why do you want to leave Europe for the US ? Have you visited here before or spent any amount of time in the US in the past ?

I have not yet been to the US and the reason i wanna work there is because there are more possibilities of working at the centre of the technological development in the world. I do have some relatives that work in Silicon Valley...

regards
marlon

humanino

Sep22-04, 10:06 AM

Moonbear

Sep22-04, 10:34 AM

I have not yet been to the US and the reason i wanna work there is because there are more possibilities of working at the centre of the technological development in the world. I do have some relatives that work in Silicon Valley...

regards
marlon

Marlon, the reality is that even US citizens are having a hard time getting jobs in that industry. It boomed and then crashed. It seems to be holding steady now, but there are still a lot of unemployed folks in that industry. It may be very hard for you to get a foot in the door in the US. That doesn't mean don't try, but it does mean have a back-up plan for staying in Europe.

marlon

Sep22-04, 10:57 AM

Moonbear, thanks for your reply...

But why would it be hard ??? That is exactly what i wanna know. What are my main disadvantages i have because i ain't no native american ?

regards
marlon

Clausius2

Sep22-04, 11:01 AM

Marlon, the reality is that even US citizens are having a hard time getting jobs in that industry. It boomed and then crashed. It seems to be holding steady now, but there are still a lot of unemployed folks in that industry. It may be very hard for you to get a foot in the door in the US. That doesn't mean don't try, but it does mean have a back-up plan for staying in Europe.

It sounds interesting that the US door is closed for foreign workers, while USA has been suppliying itself with a lot of european scientists since the beginning of the 20th century. Thousands of scientists (or almost scientists) like Marlon and Humanino were recruited in the past century by the USA. In part, the actual industry and science hegemony of USA is due to them. It sounds USA does not want to open the door now you have lifted off.

marlon

Sep22-04, 11:19 AM

Indeed Clausius2

I also think that the driving force in the US are the talented foreigners recruited by the US. The big brain drain , you know...

regards
marlon

i_wish_i_was_smart

Sep22-04, 11:54 AM

i know lots of canadians scientist leaving for the US because they get a better pay, but in the end i've heard some say that it wasnt worth it

humanino

Sep22-04, 01:06 PM

What are my main disadvantages
definitely : philosophical. Practical advantages seem numerous to me. If you can find a position in a large city, that would be pretty much the same as large European cities.

Dimitri Terryn

Sep22-04, 03:05 PM

I'm a bit sceptical about this...
I can completely understand to desire to leave Belgium. Believe me, I'm not staying my whole life. But why leave for the States?

I think is about time that European scientists and engineers get their act together and do something contructive IN EUROPE. Although the brain-drain is not as bad as it used to be, it's still bad enough.

Of course, lack of political good-will is a big problem. But I'm convinced that it's not all bad over here. Why don't look to France, Britain or Germany? I'd rather stay in Europe, and try to make the most of it. The past century was bad enough, most of the damage done then has been repaired. It's time for Europe to get it's act back together and become a world-power, not only economically (about the only thing we are currently), but also politically and scientifically.

Sorry, rant over. As you may have gathered, I feel quite strongly on this subject.

humanino

Sep22-04, 03:08 PM

It's time for Europe to get it's act back together and become a world-power, not only economically (about the only thing we are currently), but also politically and scientifically.
:approve:
It is part of the philosophical reasons I was mentionning earlier. Yet we are not too bad scientifically already :grumpy:

Dimitri Terryn

Sep22-04, 03:13 PM

True, during the last two decades of the century we made some great progress (CERN, ESA,...), but I still feel we can do better, as a region with 450 million people, most of the living in highly-develloped industrial nations...

humanino

Sep22-04, 03:19 PM

You are so right Dimitri :approve:
I have been wondering lately, you took me back from the dark side of the force !

marlon

Sep22-04, 03:25 PM

Now this might all be very true, yet nobody can deny that the most important scientific progress is made in the US. That is the reason I wanna be there.

marlon

phatmonky

Sep22-04, 04:10 PM

Your qualifications are well above that of the average US citizens. While many people are out of work (hahah, we say many with an unemployment rate HALF that of Germany), your degrees, and possible experience you already have, would make you an apt candidate in many areas.
We have hired internationally recently with less qualifications.

Good luck :)

Smurf

Sep22-04, 05:55 PM

Now this might all be very true, yet nobody can deny that the most important scientific progress is made in the US. That is the reason I wanna be there.

*coughs softly* I think your forgetting Japan. but its really expensive there (and tokyo is really rough on the working man)

Moonbear

Sep22-04, 07:59 PM

Moonbear, thanks for your reply...

But why would it be hard ??? That is exactly what i wanna know. What are my main disadvantages i have because i ain't no native american ?

regards
marlon

I think you misunderstood my advice. It's not because you are foreign that you'll have trouble, though you might...with plenty of people here looking for jobs, someone might think twice before taking a chance on someone who needs to get approved for a visa to work here. But, really it's just that the jobs in that particular industry are pretty saturated already. There are too many qualified people looking for jobs and not enough jobs to go around. It's not a very stable source of employment when you do get it. High tech industries are pretty variable...they could suddenly take off again and start hiring tons of people in a few years. All I'm suggesting is keep some options open elsewhere in the world...y'know, try for what you want, but always have a back-up plan.

marlon

Sep23-04, 06:55 AM

*coughs softly* I think your forgetting Japan. but its really expensive there (and tokyo is really rough on the working man)

Err, i think i would rather die then having to live and work in Japan...sorry...

I am a fan of Europe, the USA and Canada...

regards
marlon

Smurf

Sep23-04, 07:00 AM

hehe, yeah it's not exactly the most pleasant of living conditions, is there another reason you don't want to work there? I was merely pointing out the the USA is second in scientific progress.

marlon

Sep23-04, 07:18 AM

hehe, yeah it's not exactly the most pleasant of living conditions, is there another reason you don't want to work there? I was merely pointing out the the USA is second in scientific progress.

The Japanese society is very closed and "internal" so a foreigner would never be looked at as completely integrated into society and thus regarded as beeing eeeuuhh of "strange" descent...

Besides, Japan is not number one, just look at their economy, and can you name me one great Japanese scientist apart from Yukawa ???

regards
marlon

Gokul43201

Sep23-04, 08:28 AM

Yoshio Nishina, Yoichiro Nambu, Sin-Itiro Tomonaga : that's three.

Nevertheless, I agree with you that the United States is the leader in scientific progress.

humanino

Sep23-04, 08:51 AM

What about the number of math theorem having a japanese/chineese name for 50 years ? Whenever you encounter one, do not check the demonstration :smile: That's what I noticed :shy:

Clausius2

Sep23-04, 08:59 AM

Anyway, Marlon, you can always apply for a McDonalds or Burger King. Surely you find a lot of them there. :rofl:

And why you don't come here to Spain?. The number of scientific jobs are small, but I'll assure you the life quality is better here. The food, the spanish night, the spanish women, the red wine,.... :biggrin: .

Gokul43201

Sep23-04, 09:06 AM

marlon

Sep23-04, 09:09 AM

i_wish_i_was_smart

Sep23-04, 01:05 PM

Clausius2

Sep25-04, 11:56 AM

The spanish night, the spanish women, the food, the red wine... and watch out for those bulls !! .................................................. ........................................... :surprised: :surprised :surprised

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: Don't worry. They are not running trough every street. But there are some spaniards who are more dangerous than them. :bugeye:

cant forget the siesta in old serajevo(sp?)

Sorry, I've not understand what the siesta has to do with old sarajevo. :eek:
But I see you know something about the siesta, it's an old custom here. It's some sleeping time before the launch (at 3:30 PM approximately to 4:00PM). A recently dead famous writer, D. Camilo José Cela (author of "La Colmena" and "La Familia de Pascual Duarte") said he often sleept for two or three hours in the siesta time. He also used to sleep at the siesta dressed up with a pijama!.

Smurf

Sep25-04, 12:11 PM

I have to say that for me Working in Europe would be infinitly preferable than in the states. :biggrin: Siestas, 2 hour lunch breaks :tongue:

Evo

Sep25-04, 12:34 PM

I have to say that for me Working in Europe would be infinitly preferable than in the states. :biggrin: Siestas, 2 hour lunch breaks :tongue:Taking off for the entire month of August. :rolleyes:

humanino

Sep25-04, 03:32 PM

Taking off for the entire month of August. :rolleyes:
I know some University professors who have 25 hours of teaching a year.
And more than 40 000$ in the meantime.

franznietzsche

Sep26-04, 09:02 PM

I know some University professors who have 25 hours of teaching a year.
And more than 40 000$ in the meantime.

Research Grants?

Good gigs if you get a senior post at a major university, you do whatever research you want, and not much else.

humanino

Sep26-04, 09:30 PM

Professor salary. And some of them only keep studying whatever they like indeed, without publishing. That is also the problem in this system.

Gokul43201

Sep26-04, 09:40 PM

Research Grants?

Good gigs if you get a senior post at a major university, you do whatever research you want, and not much else.

When you talk of pay, that doesn't include research grants. Research grants don't go into your pocket.

Getting tenured at a major university is a $#!tload of hard work and is far from the cushy life you make it out to be. I believe there are a couple of members here that could attest to that. Even after getting a tenure, it's a lot of work producing results, writing proposals (which may sound easy, but is anything but), and keeping ahead of the competition.

It's a mad, mad, mad world, out there.

humanino

Sep26-04, 09:49 PM

Devil's advocate again (because Gokul is really right : if you want to make money, do not go for research)
As a PhD student, you have a constant occasion to save money. Apart from appartment rent, food and books, everything else is extra you could skip. For instance : it is great to buy a CD, but when are you going to listen to it :rofl:

Dimitri Terryn

Sep27-04, 02:47 AM

For instance : it is great to buy a CD, but when are you going to listen to it :rofl:

More importantly, why buy it when the comp sci department has one hell of a big pipe, that just screams "DOWNLOAD!!!!!!!!!" :tongue:

Integral

Sep27-04, 05:23 AM

Anyway, Marlon, you can always apply for a McDonalds or Burger King. Surely you find a lot of them there.

Careful! Now you are talking about taking a job away from an average American! :smile:

Things are indeed tight as far as jobs go in the industry. You would be fighting an uphill battle but if you are determined and do not give up there are opportunities. More so considering your field and level of education. Much of your success will depend upon your determination and ... Knowing someone in the company you apply to. (Sad, but true!) Any contacts you can make are vital.

vanesch

Sep28-04, 08:08 AM

I am a fan of Europe, the USA and Canada...

Hi there,

I have only an indirect experience of working in the US ; in fact I stayed in Europe but worked remotely for HP Santa Rosa (now it is called Agilent). It was no fun, honestly. I myself left after 1 1/2 year, and my collegues who stayed, got kicked out a few years later - and not because the work didn't please, but just because we were more high-tech oriented and not so much "just do something-anything that can please the average customer QUICKLY, even if it is scientifically bull****".
I think that if you want to make big money, and only that, forget about PhD's and research and so on, and get your own business started. This is probably easier in Europe than in the US.
If you are more research-minded, well, forget the big money :redface:. Probably there are opportunities in the US, but you should consider maybe other countries than Belgium in Europe first - it is not really a research-minded country ; at least that was my experience. France is a lot better in that regard, even if things are getting a bit harder - there's an other mindset.

cheers,
Patrick.

YourLooks

Sep28-04, 11:51 AM

The Japanese society is very closed and "internal" so a foreigner would never be looked at as completely integrated into society and thus regarded as beeing eeeuuhh of "strange" descent...

Besides, Japan is not number one, just look at their economy, and can you name me one great Japanese scientist apart from Yukawa ???

regards
marlon
:redface: Really, i have never known that ? :redface:
But are you open ? Japan is admittedly not number one, but an individual living in a number one country can then surely become number one too ? :shy:, for example you!

marlon

Sep28-04, 12:31 PM

Hi there,

I have only an indirect experience of working in the US ; in fact I stayed in Europe but worked remotely for HP Santa Rosa (now it is called Agilent). It was no fun, honestly. I myself left after 1 1/2 year, and my collegues who stayed, got kicked out a few years later - and not because the work didn't please, but just because we were more high-tech oriented and not so much "just do something-anything that can please the average customer QUICKLY, even if it is scientifically bull****".
I think that if you want to make big money, and only that, forget about PhD's and research and so on, and get your own business started. This is probably easier in Europe than in the US.
If you are more research-minded, well, forget the big money :redface:. Probably there are opportunities in the US, but you should consider maybe other countries than Belgium in Europe first - it is not really a research-minded country ; at least that was my experience. France is a lot better in that regard, even if things are getting a bit harder - there's an other mindset.

cheers,
Patrick.

Hi Vanesch, thanks for your reply...

You are indeed right i wanna go for the big money (not only that of course). Don't get me wrong here, what i mean by that is i wanna be in the industry you know. I don't wanna be a researcher and indeed i do not have a PhD. Getting into the industry and technology is the main reason why i am studying engineering (you know : burgerlijk ingenieur). My dream is to have my own business although that will be very difficult, yet that does not scare me. At least I will try my best. I am specializing in photonics...lasers, semiconductors and so on...

regards
marlon

marlon

Sep28-04, 12:34 PM

:redface: Really, i have never known that ? :redface:
But are you open ? Japan is admittedly not number one, but an individual living in a number one country can then surely become number one too ? :shy:, for example you!

Hi Yourlooks

I don't think i am getting your point here ???
What do you mean ???
I never proclaimed to be number one you know...

marlon, number two !!!!!! :cool:

phatmonky

Sep28-04, 08:54 PM

I have to say that for me Working in Europe would be infinitly preferable than in the states. :biggrin: Siestas, 2 hour lunch breaks :tongue:

Lazy ***. In the states we require real work :o

phatmonky

Sep28-04, 08:57 PM

Hi there,

I have only an indirect experience of working in the US ; in fact I stayed in Europe but worked remotely for HP Santa Rosa (now it is called Agilent). It was no fun, honestly. I myself left after 1 1/2 year, and my collegues who stayed, got kicked out a few years later - and not because the work didn't please, but just because we were more high-tech oriented and not so much "just do something-anything that can please the average customer QUICKLY, even if it is scientifically bull****".
I think that if you want to make big money, and only that, forget about PhD's and research and so on, and get your own business started. This is probably easier in Europe than in the US.
If you are more research-minded, well, forget the big money :redface:. Probably there are opportunities in the US, but you should consider maybe other countries than Belgium in Europe first - it is not really a research-minded country ; at least that was my experience. France is a lot better in that regard, even if things are getting a bit harder - there's an other mindset.

cheers,
Patrick.

As a business owner myself, I'm curious to know your reasoning on why you think it will be easier for him to start a business in Europe than in the US? Do you simply mean to say because he is European? Or do you believe that some market variable in Europe is more condusive to sucessfully starting a small business?

vanesch

Sep28-04, 11:29 PM

Do you simply mean to say because he is European? Or do you believe that some market variable in Europe is more condusive to sucessfully starting a small business?

Because he's European. Of course it is easier to start a business in the US, but you first have to get there !

cheers,
Patrick.

vanesch

Sep28-04, 11:35 PM

You are indeed right i wanna go for the big money (not only that of course). Don't get me wrong here, what i mean by that is i wanna be in the industry you know.

Well, sorry to disappoint you then but I don't think that having a salary in industry as an engineer is so much better payed than, say, in public service (especially international public service). If $$$ is what you want, you should orient more towards commercial and management stuff, something that will be usefull too if you create your own business. Personally, for me these are the worst things I could do in my own life (and, hey, because we seem to disagree on many points, that's a plus for you :smile: )

cheers,
Patrick.

marlon

Sep29-04, 10:10 AM

Well, sorry to disappoint you then but I don't think that having a salary in industry as an engineer is so much better payed than, say, in public service (especially international public service). If $$$ is what you want, you should orient more towards commercial and management stuff, something that will be usefull too if you create your own business. Personally, for me these are the worst things I could do in my own life (and, hey, because we seem to disagree on many points, that's a plus for you :smile: )

cheers,
Patrick.

Hi Vanesch, indeed we disagree on many points but that is not a problem for me. You are right though, it is in fact the management-positions that are best paid but i really believe that having a profound technical background is more valuable then some economic background. The latter will be learned in practice, you know...

marlon

vanesch

Sep29-04, 01:04 PM

but i really believe that having a profound technical background is more valuable then some economic background. The latter will be learned in practice, you know...

I agree fully with you :smile: that this is the sanest way to be a good manager. However, I have the impression that this is absolutely not how people get in these positions in the first place. I think you have to go to an upshot MBA school or the like, not because you learn what so ever of any value there, but because you learn to know the people who distribute the cards, who have been through the same circuit and, you know, to start to be part of the ol'boys network and fill up your address book.

cheers,
Patrick.