Something that grinds my gears [Archive]

1MileCrash

Nov2-10, 10:00 PM

Person A:

"Y can't time at work doest go by fast??"

Person B:

"Wow, someone's an english major! :P"

Person C:

"Someone needs to remember that this is facebook and not english class!"

Just happened on my friend's facebook, Person A. I am Person B. Person C is an old lady.

Now, this particular example did nothing to "grind my gears," (it's on facebook for crying out loud) but it reminded me of cases that do.

Have you ever applied the knowledge you've learned through education to a real-life situation to come up with a solution? (hopefully yes) Then while doing this you are met with the response "this isn't physics/math/chemistry/biology/government/whatever class!"

Am I missing something here? Isn't that the point of obtaining an education? Yes, lets cease to apply the skills and knowledge we have acquired simply because we aren't currently seated in a classroom. Brilliant.

lisab

Nov2-10, 10:12 PM

Happens to me a lot. Yes it's very annoying.

But my advice would be, just get used to it - you're educated and there's no reason to hide it. If it bothers other people, it's their problem.

russ_watters

Nov2-10, 10:14 PM

"English" should be capitalized.

1MileCrash

Nov2-10, 10:22 PM

Happens to me a lot. Yes it's very annoying.

But my advice would be, just get used to it - you're educated and there's no reason to hide it. If it bothers other people, it's their problem.

Thanks, I would agree with you.

Though I'm not very educated - just a third year college student here. I think I'm a pretty average guy with a greater interest in physics than most other "normal" people.

"English" should be capitalized.

Hahaha, this is a science forum not a grammar forum! :P

Truth be told, casually, I never point out errors in punctuation or capitalization and whatnot, but "Why can't time at work doesn't go by fast?" was just really hard to pass up.

Although the amount of people who write "rediculous" also starts to overwhelm me.

Rediculous (V.) - to diculous again.
"I thought I'd only need to diculous once, but I had to rediculous to get it right."

Danger

Nov3-10, 01:26 AM

Rediculous (V.) - to diculous again.
"I thought I'd only need to diculous once, but I had to rediculous to get it right."

I have that same problem with the ubiquitous word "reiterate". To "iterate" is to repeat something, so to "reiterate" is to repeat a repetition. That is, pardon the expression, redundant.
And don't even get me started about how apparently every Yank in show business (even those disguised as otherwise intelligent Vulcans or FBI profilers) thinks that "may" is an acceptable substitute for "might". Do they have no understanding whatsoever as to the difference between permission and possibility?

Upisoft

Nov3-10, 05:55 AM

I have that same problem with the ubiquitous word "reiterate". To "iterate" is to repeat something, so to "reiterate" is to repeat a repetition. That is, pardon the expression, redundant.

Well, "reiterate" is a useful short form for "iterate again". In software we constantly iterate and then reiterate the elements of the same array. Some task just don't have the proper algorithm that will do the job with only one iteration.

xxChrisxx

Nov3-10, 07:27 AM

Frankly, unless you posted your comment as a joke, what you wrote is just annoying. Yes, it's very poor English, but so what? Why did you feel you had to make it your mission to point this out? What did you expect the outcome to be?

There is a time and a place for that sort of thing, facebook is not one of them. The old lady is right.

1MileCrash

Nov3-10, 02:13 PM

Danger

Nov3-10, 06:20 PM

Well, "reiterate" is a useful short form for "iterate again". In software we constantly iterate and then reiterate the elements of the same array.
Well, that's a specialized case that places the term in the category of jargon. I was referring to the more general conversational misuse of it.

Upisoft

Nov3-10, 06:45 PM

Well, that's a specialized case that places the term in the category of jargon. I was referring to the more general conversational misuse of it.

Jargon usually finds its way out of the closed communities using it, as they tend to have other activities.

Evo

Nov3-10, 07:03 PM

My pet peeve is people that write reoccur, it's recur. It's been abused for so long and so widely that it's actually starting to appear in some dictionaries.

Here is a great list of commonly abused words.

http://www.alphadictionary.com/articles/mispronounced_words.html

Moonbear

Nov3-10, 07:25 PM

There is a time and a place for that sort of thing, facebook is not one of them. The old lady is right.

I disagree. I would agree if he was being picky about something minor like a semicolon, but that statement was so horrendously worded as to be incomprehensible. We aren't taught things in English class or any other class just to use them only in that class. We are taught them to communicate and function in society. People like that "old lady" who think it's okay that ignorance be excused outside the classroom are contributing to the problem of ignorance in society.

Gokul43201

Nov3-10, 07:27 PM

<OT> Haven't seen you in a while! </OT>

Moonbear

Nov3-10, 08:04 PM

<OT> Haven't seen you in a while! </OT>

I've been BURIED in work.

Jasongreat

Nov3-10, 08:31 PM

Something that grinds my gears is someone who corrects things I say, my aunt was an english teacher, I used aint all I could when younger to grind her gears. Language is all about communication, it doesnt matter if all the rules are followed as long as the person you are conversing with understands what you are saying, imo. But I would say that if you are so worried about proper grammar you might introduce a few more comma's to your sentences, your other posts just go on and on and on, as well as switching directions mid sentence. IMO, there is nothing worse than someone who want to show their academic superiority, by nit picking the use of english, I get away with it though because I am not educated, atleast not if you only consider educated as someone who went to college.

Gokul43201

Nov3-10, 10:03 PM

Frankly, unless you posted your comment as a joke, what you wrote is just annoying. Yes, it's very poor English, but so what?So write more sensibly if you want people to understand you without having to strain their imagination.

Why did you feel you had to make it your mission to point this out? If you pointed out that someone had their laces untied, would that be considered a mission as well?

What did you expect the outcome to be?If I were the OP, I'd hope the outcome would be that the person put the tiniest bit more effort into communicating.

There is a time and a place for that sort of thing, facebook is not one of them. The old lady is right.Why do you feel you have to make it your mission to point this out?

Gokul43201

Nov3-10, 10:05 PM

I've been BURIED in work.Clawed your way out on Halloween?

mugaliens

Nov4-10, 05:01 AM

Have you ever applied the knowledge you've learned through education to a real-life situation to come up with a solution?

Absolutely.

Isn't that the point of obtaining an education? Yes, lets cease to apply the skills and knowledge we have acquired simply because we aren't currently seated in a classroom. Brilliant.

Lol, I feel you, dog (sorry about the English - after all, this isn't a...)

Just kidding. My point, however, is that it's fairly easy to let one's guard down, so I wouldn't sweat it too much when others do that. As for any flippant comments, it might be better just to let it be water off a duck's back.

Danger

Nov4-10, 06:48 AM

As for any flippant comments, it might be better just to let it be water off a duck's back.

That should be "water off of a duck's back. :wink: :uhh:

Or was that remark too flippant? :biggrin:

jambaugh

Nov4-10, 07:13 AM

... it doesnt matter if all the rules are followed as long as the person you are conversing with understands what you are saying, imo...

I think it was Emily Post who first said this but it's a good heuristic, "You must first know the rules to know when it is appropriate to break them". What you say is true w.r.t. the main point is communication, and an occasional "ain't" won't bring down civilization. But we do need to know how to speak, write properly and unambiguously when appropriate.

I have my share of bad habits and spelling errors but I do wince at the egregious grammar errors you hear on TV by professional communicators.

BTW, Has anyone read the book "Eats, Shoots, and Leaves" by Lynn Truss?

Danger

Nov4-10, 07:19 AM

BTW, Has anyone read the book "Eats, Shoots, and Leaves" by Lynn Truss?

I have not. I'm familiar with the phrase as the punchline to a panda joke, of course, but was unaware of the book. It should be entertaining. For some reason, the title makes me think of Dave Barry or Jack Douglass.

Gokul43201

Nov4-10, 09:09 AM

That should be "water off of a duck's back. :wink: :uhh:I believe you've got it exactly backwards. I can't imagine any grammar book not cringing at the use of 'off of', when the single-word preposition 'off' is sufficient.

G01

Nov4-10, 03:11 PM

Most of the time I let grammar mistakes go, as I am not saint in this matter. However, I do have at least one language pet peeve:

I don't like it when people, especially debaters or TV Talking Heads use the phrase "begs the question" to mean "raises the question."

It seems stupid, but "begs the question" has a whole different logical meaning. It really bothers me when people use begs the question the wrong way in debates. (They should know their logic!)

Raises the question: Brings a new question or topic into the realm of discussion.

Begs the question: Flaw in an argument where, in order to prove something you have assume it to be true.

lisab

Nov4-10, 03:30 PM

I believe you've got it exactly backwards. I can't imagine any grammar book not cringing at the use of 'off of', when the single-word preposition 'off' is sufficient.

Meh, I could care less.

:devil:

Evo

Nov4-10, 04:17 PM

I believe you've got it exactly backwards. I can't imagine any grammar book not cringing at the use of 'off of', when the single-word preposition 'off' is sufficient.Another fine list.

http://www.wsu.edu/~brians/errors/nonerrors.html

First list.

Here is a great list of commonly abused words.

http://www.alphadictionary.com/articles/mispronounced_words.html

Danger

Nov4-10, 04:32 PM

I believe you've got it exactly backwards. I can't imagine any grammar book not cringing at the use of 'off of', when the single-word preposition 'off' is sufficient.

Incorrect. "Off" means "not on"; "off of" means that it was on and then was removed.

Meh, I could care less.

:devil:

You are a truly evil creature... :biggrin:

texasblitzem

Nov4-10, 04:41 PM

I was raised by an English teacher, and always had my grammar corrected. I find myself doing the same to others all (of)? the time, and I'm trying to stop it, but I have a friend that says "supposably" instead of supposedly. It drives me crazy and I want to enlighten her as to the proper pronunciation of the word, but without insulting her intelligence. I think she would be offended that I would correct her. I've even used it in conversations while talking to her but she doesn't get it.
Any ideas on how to enlighten her without straight-out telling her? I know some will say 'just let it go' and I have so far, but I cringe every time she says it.

Evo

Nov4-10, 04:44 PM

Danger

Nov4-10, 05:06 PM

Gokul43201

Nov4-10, 05:11 PM

Incorrect. "Off" means "not on";It also (approximately) means 'away from', when used as a preposition.

See: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/off?show=1&t=1288909280

Note that Webster is okay with 'off of' when used idiomatically, especially in speech. From the same page:
Usage Discussion of OFF OF

The of is often criticized as superfluous, a comment that is irrelevant because off of is an idiom. It is much more common in speech than in edited writing and is more common in American English than in British.

"off of" means that it was on and then was removed.That is sufficiently conveyed by just the 'off', and eliminates the need for an extra word. But more to the point, the idiom is indeed 'water off a duck's back'.

See:

1. http://www.grammarbook.com/grammar/probPrep.asp
2. http://www.alphadictionary.com/blog/?p=294
3. http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/water+off+a+duck%27s+back
4. http://www.usingenglish.com/reference/idioms/water+off+a+duck%27s+back.html
5. http://www.englishclub.com/ref/esl/Idioms/W/_like_water_off_a_duck_s_back_575.htm
6. http://www.macmillandictionary.com/dictionary/british/water

Back in ye olde days when little Dan went to grammar school, the usage of 'off' as a preposition probably hadn't gotten terribly popular yet. :tongue2: Ref 2 above speaks a little about the semantic changes but doesn't put actual dates on the timeline.

rootX

Nov4-10, 05:15 PM

I always use "off of" in things like "get off of my bed" because it is more natural than "off".

On related, I just found...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7457287.stm

Office_Shredder

Nov4-10, 05:22 PM

Just happened on my friend's facebook, Person A. I am Person B. Person C is an old lady.

Now, this particular example did nothing to "grind my gears," (it's on facebook for crying out loud) but it reminded me of cases that do.

Have you ever applied the knowledge you've learned through education to a real-life situation to come up with a solution? (hopefully yes) Then while doing this you are met with the response "this isn't physics/math/chemistry/biology/government/whatever class!"

Am I missing something here? Isn't that the point of obtaining an education? Yes, lets cease to apply the skills and knowledge we have acquired simply because we aren't currently seated in a classroom. Brilliant.

This reminds me of that time that you were Peter in Family Guy

Gokul43201

Nov4-10, 05:48 PM

I always use "off of" in things like "get off of my bed" because it is more natural than "off".http://www.grammarbook.com/grammar/probPrep.aspCorrect: Take your shoes off the bed.
Incorrect: Take your shoes off of the bed.

lisab

Nov4-10, 05:59 PM

Incorrect. "Off" means "not on"; "off of" means that it was on and then was removed.

Unless you're talking about an alarm. When an alarm goes off, that means it goes on.

You are a truly evil creature... :biggrin:

:wink:

Evo

Nov4-10, 06:15 PM

http://www.grammarbook.com/grammar/probPrep.aspThat there 'off of' is heathen speech.

—Usage note
The phrasal preposition off of is old in English, going back to the 16th century. Although usage guides reject it as redundant, recommending off without of, the phrase is widespread in speech, including that of the educated: Let's watch as the presidential candidates come off of the rostrum and down into the audience. Off of is rare in edited writing except to give the flavor of speech.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/off

I use either version depending on my mood.

Dembadon

Nov4-10, 06:25 PM

I think about things like this often, and would generally agree with those who prefer to correct others. However, it can get annoying if done excessively in a casual setting.

As long as we're making lists... :biggrin:

Some rhetorical tautologies that bug me (not that I haven't used some of them myself on occasion :redface:):

"the reason why" or "the reason is because" -- "reason" is already, by definition, a description of why something happens.
"free gift" -- "gift" is, by definition, something given without charge.
"cheapest price" -- "cheapest" means "lowest priced", thus "cheapest price" is actually "lowest priced price". Also it is almost a non-sense, as a price is not to be bought.
"first introduced" -- "introduced" generally implies that it is the first time that someone or something has been presented.
"new innovation" -- "innovation" is defined as something new.
"forward planning" or "planning ahead" -- "planning" is always done in advance.
"faster speed" -- "Faster" means "greater speed", so "faster speed" is actually "greater speed speed".
"over-exaggerate" -- "exaggerate" means "overstate", thus "over-exaggerate" means "over overstate".
"short summary" -- a "summary" is a "shortened" version of a text

A fun page. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tautology_%28rhetoric%29)

Gokul43201

Nov4-10, 06:58 PM

That there 'off of' is heathen speech.

I use either version depending on my mood.I'm not at all irked by that usage. But Danger's comment was the first time I'd heard anyone say that 'off of' was the correct usage and 'off' was wrong.

The one that really gets me is 'is is'.

Evo

Nov4-10, 07:11 PM

The one that really gets me is 'is is'.As in "What it is is this"?

lisab

Nov4-10, 07:24 PM

As in "What it is is this"?

What that is is, is an overuse of is.

Dembadon

Nov4-10, 07:37 PM

As in "What it is is this"?

A co-worker of mine uses "is is" a lot. He says, "The deal is, is that..."

Proton Soup

Nov4-10, 07:55 PM

meh. language evolves too fast to overly concerned with these things.

Gokul43201

Nov4-10, 09:10 PM

As in "What it is is this"?No, that's perfectly fine.

Some examples of what isn't okay:

So my hope is, is that we can find a sensible way to deal with it that doesn’t squelch economic growth...

And so what I’ve been clear about is, is that I’ve got a set of preferences...

And so my hope and expectation is, is that we get this law passed.

Edit: Lisa and Dembadon got the one that I was talking about. So I guess I'm not the only one that's noticed this behavior.

Danger

Nov5-10, 03:59 PM

But Danger's comment was the first time I'd heard anyone say that 'off of' was the correct usage and 'off' was wrong.

You remind me of one of my favourite pins (I collect them). The message on it is "Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside a dog, it's too dark to read."

Gokul43201

Nov5-10, 08:16 PM

Hey, that's a paraprosdokian! (only recently learned that word, right here --> http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?p=2937610#post2937610 )

ThomasT

Nov6-10, 08:43 AM

Have you ever applied the knowledge you've learned through education to a real-life situation to come up with a solution? (hopefully yes) Then while doing this you are met with the response "this isn't physics/math/chemistry/biology/government/whatever class!"No. Any time that I actually came up with a solution to a real-life situation based on something that I'd learned in school people would say stuff like "awesome" or "cool" or whatever. Perhaps you should shift to a different circle of friends.

Evo

Nov6-10, 12:41 PM

Edit: Lisa and Dembadon got the one that I was talking about. So I guess I'm not the only one that's noticed this behavior.for gokul

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHp0LxJixvw

JHp0LxJixvw

lisab

Nov6-10, 12:46 PM

Isn't there a word for that? It's like a mental stutter. Now I'm going to go nuts trying to remember.

You mean when people say "uuuuuuh" two or three times per sentence, to fill pauses as they think of what word to use? I think that's called "being a human dial tone".

Evo

Nov6-10, 12:52 PM

You mean when people say "uuuuuuh" two or three times per sentence, to fill pauses as they think of what word to use? I think that's called "being a human dial tone".LOL, yes, that's it. I changed my post to the video.

lisab

Nov6-10, 01:06 PM

LOL, yes, that's it. I changed my post to the video.

:smile: That's a great video!

Galteeth

Nov7-10, 09:27 AM

English is a constantly evolving language. IMO, it's a bit silly to get annoyed at different uses of language where the meaning remains clear. Especially on the internet, there is an entire "dialect" that you probably wouldn't recognize if you didn't frequent certain types of websites.

Brin

Nov8-10, 01:25 PM

Get it right! Everyone keeps misusing this!

http://begthequestion.info/

It doesn't mean to "raise the question," its a logical fallacy akin to "circular reason." So when you say "it begs the question," it normally doesn't, and what you mean is: "It raises the question."

Have a good day.

Grep

Nov8-10, 10:37 PM

As long as someone doesn't mix up "your" and "you're", I can probably live with it. Well... Ok, I'll admit that I really hate it when people spell "a lot" as one word (i.e. alot). Bugs the heck out of me. Good thing I can't hear people pronounce it incorrectly.

Also, pronouncing the 't' in often. Really annoying. But not as annoying as some of the phrases you hear in business circles these days. Don't get me started on those...

Some of the worst sins in writing, to me, are things like the infamous "wall of text". Paragraphs are wonderful things!

Can't help but noticing there's disagreement between the two sites you posted, Evo. The mispronounced words list says it's "spit and image" not "spitting image", while the non-errors one says it's not an error. Just goes to show.

Proton Soup

Nov8-10, 11:14 PM

As long as someone doesn't mix up "your" and "you're"

i catch myself doing this unintentionally all the time. i'll be typing, and maybe in a hurry, and it just comes out as some phonetic equivalent. usually, i'll catch it and correct before moving on. there's also some little trick my brain plays where i can even proof something after typing, and perhaps never even see an omitted word. must be fairly common, because i even see it from professional journalists who should really know better (and you know they do, because it's not a consistent error).

i also used to do this odd contraction thing when taking notes(handwriting). whenever the words "with" and "the" came together, i'd accidentally write it as "withe".

jambaugh

Nov8-10, 11:49 PM

Another one that I've been seeing more and more lately is "to" instead of "too" as in "there's to many for us sheriff!" I see it a lot on text messages which is forgivable given the keyboard issues but in major blog articles it is too damned sloppy!.

mugaliens

Nov10-10, 12:25 AM

i catch myself doing this unintentionally all the time.

Same. I try not to, but both my parents and I have noticed the older we get, the more often this happens.

Cod

Nov10-10, 01:03 AM

I get frustrated when people start comments with "Personally, I..." or "I personally...". If you say "I", you're implying personally. Also, double-negatives drive me up the wall. Most days at work I hear someone state, "I cannot go around not doing that."

Evo

Nov10-10, 09:53 AM

Can't help but noticing there's disagreement between the two sites you posted, Evo. The mispronounced words list says it's "spit and image" not "spitting image", while the non-errors one says it's not an error. Just goes to show.In the case of conflicting information, my decision will be the correct one. I'll let you know when I make one.:tongue:

Gokul43201

Nov18-10, 11:37 AM

for gokul

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHp0LxJixvw

JHp0LxJixvwLate reading this post (too little time, too many posts). Thanks for the video.

Danger

Nov18-10, 12:50 PM

I tend to not to correct people in conversation, even though some of their gaffs drive me up the wall. My intolerance tends toward written (or typed, or whatever) forms.
Another one that irritates me is the constant misplacement of "really" in a sentence. For example, in a current Fountain Tire commercial, Jon (the actor) says "I should really be steering." There are several other examples similar to that. How hard is it to put the words in the proper sequence?

In going back through this thread for the sake of freshening my memory, I noticed a typo in my own post which is too old to be edited. (Strangely, nobody nailed me for it.) There are too many (two) "to's" in my first sentence. It's embarrassing, but somewhat amusing (almost ironic) given the context.
Gokul, thanks for that link to paraprosdokian quotes. I've always recognized Groucho as a comedic genius, but was unaware that he was the origin of the phrase on my pin.