View Full Version : Arrest warrant issued for Wikileaks founder, for sex crimes
Ivan Seeking
Nov30-10, 06:02 PM
Two days after Internet whistleblower WikiLeaks released 251,287 U.S. diplomatic cables to major media organizations including the New York Times and Der Spiegel, international police organization Interpol has placed founder Julian Assange on its wanted list for “Sex Crimes,” in a warrant issued by the Public Prosecution Office in Gothenburg, Sweden...
http://techcrunch.com/2010/11/30/wikileaks-julian-assange/
Wow, this should spice things up a bit! According to reports running on CNN right now, it is expected [speculation] that the US and others will file charges for his Wikileaks activities.
drankin
Nov30-10, 06:11 PM
It just seemed like a matter of time before this was going to happen. I haven't been following this in depth but how did he come upon the information he was posting?
Army Pfc. Bradley Manning released that one video of the attack on reporters from the helicopter, and I think he's still the prime suspect for the rest of the iraq/afghan diaries, though he hasn't been charged yet.
MATLABdude
Nov30-10, 06:45 PM
The timing of this is terrible--it looks like people are out to 'get' him under spurious charges, rather than for legitimate reasons (which these may well be, especially if it's the Swedes who are pressing these). It's like Glenn 'I'm not a pedophile' Beck--where the heck did that even come from?
As to the provenance of the documents in question, the speculation is that it was Bradley Manning, the same guy who leaked earlier Afghanistan / Iraq documents to WikiLeaks:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/nov/30/wikileaks-cables-bradley-manning
Office_Shredder
Nov30-10, 07:44 PM
waht, unless you're suggesting that Assange raped Clinton or something, it seems like that would be more appropriate for a separate thread.
Sweden brought up charges similar to this a little while ago which were dropped when somebody else (not the original charging prosecutor) looked at the case and decided it was bunk
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11049316
How does a country file charges against a non-U.S. citizen acting in another country?
Office_Shredder
Nov30-10, 08:16 PM
How does a country file charges against a non-U.S. citizen acting in another country?
Countries can file charges against anyone committing a crime within their borders. The ability to enforce those charges once the person has left the country is limited to their ability to get the other country's government to agree to an extradition
Countries can file charges against anyone committing a crime within their borders. The ability to enforce those charges once the person has left the country is limited to their ability to get the other country's government to agree to an extradition
@&$%! I was thinking about the charges the U.S. is reported to file on Assange for the leaked cables. My bad. But since we're on the topic of his charges...
Sweden brought up charges similar to this a little while ago which were dropped when somebody else (not the original charging prosecutor) looked at the case and decided it was bunk
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11049316The latest.Sweden to issue int'l warrant for Assange
STOCKHOLM — The elusive Australian behind the biggest leak of U.S. war documents in history is wanted by Sweden in a drawn-out rape probe, and could soon face an international arrest warrant curtailing his ability to jump from one country to another.
A Swedish court on Thursday approved a motion to bring Julian Assange, the 39-year-old founder of WikiLeaks, into custody for questioning. The decision paves the way for prosecutors to seek his arrest abroad through Interpol.
Assange, whose whereabouts are unknown, is suspected of rape, sexual molestation and unlawful coercion. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40250098/ns/world_news-europe/
Last I heard he's on the run trying to find a country to give him assylum.
Proton Soup
Nov30-10, 08:55 PM
far too convenient. looks like a setup.
Pengwuino
Nov30-10, 09:16 PM
far too convenient. looks like a setup.
This isn't new. He was being accused before even the first big leak.
Proton Soup
Nov30-10, 09:30 PM
This isn't new. He was being accused before even the first big leak.
link says august. i think he's been under fire longer than that.
mugaliens
Dec1-10, 05:19 PM
I'm not that surprised. When you find someone willing to violate serious and closely-held societal norms of propriety in one area, there are often other areas of deviant behavior.
Dr Lots-o'watts
Dec2-10, 09:59 PM
So a free man, fighting for even more freedom (of the press), is now practically living as a fugitive. Some people just don't know when to stop.
Mathnomalous
Dec2-10, 10:23 PM
The man may or may not be guilty of sex crimes, but the information released by Wikileaks is still valuable. I will not be surprised if Mr. Assange turns up "accidentally" dead.
Proton Soup
Dec2-10, 11:06 PM
if he does get arrested, i wonder what it will take to trigger a key release for "insurance (http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2010/08/wikileaks_insur.html)"?
presumably, gov't types already know about this, and would either want to force his bluff, or consider the continuing operation of wikileaks to be a bigger threat than whatever could be contained there.
Note that he is wanted for questioning;il it is not an arrest warrant and he has not been formally charged with anything. All that has happened is that the courts have decided that the prosecution has so much evidence that they should have the opportunity to question him regarding sexual assault and coercion charges (it is not a rape charge, that was the the original charge but it was dissmissed); it is entirely possible that they'll question him and then lets him go.
Note that he is wanted for questioning;il it is not an arrest warrant and he has not been formally charged with anything. All that has happened is that the courts have decided that the prosecution has so much evidence that they should have the opportunity to question him regarding sexual assault and coercion charges (it is not a rape charge, that was the the original charge but it was dissmissed); it is entirely possible that they'll question him and then lets him go.
News articles are reporting an arrest warrant:
The law is closing in on Julian Assange. Swedish authorities won a court ruling Thursday in their bid to arrest the WikiLeaks founder for questioning in a rape case, British intelligence is said to know where he's hiding, and U.S. pundits and politicians are demanding he be hunted down or worse.
...
Assange is accused in Sweden of rape, sexual molestation and coercion in a case from August, and Swedish officials have alerted Interpol and issued a European arrest warrant to bring him in for questioning.
http://www.physorg.com/news/2010-12-assange-legal-options-narrow.html
Questioning, yes. But it is an arrest warrant. Here's the Interpol flag that states it is an arrest warrant:
http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/9379/wikileaksinternationala.jpg
Hmm. I wonder if WikiLeaks will leak his whereabouts...
Gokul43201
Dec3-10, 02:34 PM
An interpol arrest warrant for sex crimes? I've never heard of that happening before. Does someone have the actual text of the warrant, i.e., what he is being charged with?
We should keep an open mind on this situation. The two women who alleged sexual misconduct initially were identified as Wikilieaks "volunteers". Is it possible that the authorities pressured them to allege such misconduct by threatening them with charges that could arise from prosecuting the leaks? Certainly, several national governments want to see him taken down and silenced, and they may not be all that ethical in the methods they pursue to that end.
NobodySpecial
Dec3-10, 03:06 PM
Given that he is in the UK and the UK police didn't manage to arrest General Pinochet for mass murder on another european warrant - he's probably safe.
Unless of course you believe that the British Bobby is subject to any sort of political consideration.
humanino
Dec3-10, 03:33 PM
An interpol arrest warrant for sex crimes? I've never heard of that happening before. Does someone have the actual text of the warrant, i.e., what he is being charged with?
Indeed. From wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interpol)
In order to maintain as politically neutral a role as possible, Interpol's constitution forbids its involvement in crimes that do not overlap several member countries,[3] or in any political, military, religious, or racial crimes.[4] Its work focuses primarily on public safety, terrorism, organized crime, crimes against humanity, environmental crime, genocide, war crimes, piracy, illicit drug production, drug trafficking, weapons smuggling, human trafficking, money laundering, child pornography, white-collar crime, computer crime, intellectual property crime and corruption.
See also
http://www.interpol.int/Public/Icpo/Publications/default.asp
An interpol arrest warrant for sex crimes? I've never heard of that happening before. Does someone have the actual text of the warrant, i.e., what he is being charged with?
Interpol has some information on their main page:
LYON, France - INTERPOL has made public the Red Notice, or international wanted persons alert, for WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange at the request of Swedish authorities who want to question him in connection with a number of sexual offences.
http://www.interpol.int/Public/ICPO/PressReleases/PR2010/PR101.asp
http://www.interpol.int/public/data/wanted/notices/data/2010/86/2010_52486.asp
We should keep an open mind on this situation. The two women who alleged sexual misconduct initially were identified as Wikilieaks "volunteers". Is it possible that the authorities pressured them to allege such misconduct by threatening them with charges that could arise from prosecuting the leaks? Certainly, several national governments want to see him taken down and silenced, and they may not be all that ethical in the methods they pursue to that end.They weren't volunteers, one was listed as a "supporter", the other he met at a seminar. How they got to know about each other is my question.
I googled "Interpol sex crimes" and had trouble finding anything other than Assange. :rolleyes:
Anyway, there seems to be some history of Interpol going after sex criminals. From Oct 18, 2007:
Alleged Sex Offender Wanted by Interpol
According to the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation, Interpol has been searching for Mr. Neil for the past three years, after discovering more than 200 photos on the internet depicting sexual contact between a man and twelve young Asian boys.
http://www.suite101.com/content/profile-christopher-paul-neil-a33618
They weren't volunteers, one was listed as a "supporter", the other he met at a seminar. How they got to know about each other is my question.OK, they apparently hooked up with Assange at a seminar he gave in August, then filed complaints against him together six days later. Hmm.
Investigators have not released details about either case, though a police report obtained by The Associated Press shows both women had befriended Assange in connection with a seminar he gave in Stockholm on Aug. 14.
The report shows they filed their complaints together six days later.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/08/25/julian-assange-wikileaks-_0_n_694719.html
humanino
Dec3-10, 04:10 PM
I googled "Interpol sex crimes" and had trouble finding anything other than Assange. :rolleyes:If you search on their website (for instance the link I gave above) you will find that interpol has been after pedophiles, and "crimes against children" in general, for a long time. I do remember this case for instance
http://www.foxnews.com/images/311973/1_61_100807_pedophile_hunt1.jpg
However, this does not apply to Assange.
Jack21222
Dec3-10, 05:47 PM
Apparently, he's not even being charged with rape.
http://www.aolnews.com/world/article/sex-by-surprise-at-heart-of-julian-assange-criminal-probe/19741444
Assange's London attorney, Mark Stephens, told AOL News today that Swedish prosecutors told him that Assange is wanted not for allegations of rape, as previously reported, but for something called "sex by surprise," which he said involves a fine of 5,000 kronor or about $715.
According to the Swedish tabloid Aftonbladet, the photographer contacted the other woman two days after her assignation with Assange, and the two apparently had a conversation in which it became clear they had both had sex with Assange. The photographer was worried about having had unprotected sex and decided she wanted to go to the police.
It looks like she had consensual unprotected sex, and then she had regrets about it later. In Sweden, this apparently constitutes a sex crime. Remind me to never go there.
Mathnomalous
Dec3-10, 05:53 PM
"Sex by surprise"
:confused:
Office_Shredder
Dec3-10, 06:11 PM
So interpol put out an international warrant on a crime which has a punishment of a 700 dollar fine?
Waste of resources maybe?
Mathnomalous
Dec3-10, 06:18 PM
So interpol put out an international warrant on a crime which has a punishment of a 700 dollar fine?
Waste of resources maybe?
Not if the target of the warrant is embarrassing the powerful, wealthy, and well-connected.
NobodySpecial
Dec3-10, 10:08 PM
Not if the target of the warrant is embarrassing the powerful, wealthy, and well-connected.
What if the person IS embarrassing, powerful, wealthy, and well-connected ?
"The Economic and Financial Crimes Commission (EFCC) said yesterday it was charging former United States Vice-President Dick Cheney over the bribery scandal involving an engineering firm, KBR, a subsidiary of Halliburton." http://allafrica.com/stories/201012030493.html
The timing of this is terrible--it looks like people are out to 'get' him under spurious charges, rather than for legitimate reasons (which these may well be, especially if it's the Swedes who are pressing these). It's like Glenn 'I'm not a pedophile' Beck--where the heck did that even come from?
As to the provenance of the documents in question, the speculation is that it was Bradley Manning, the same guy who leaked earlier Afghanistan / Iraq documents to WikiLeaks:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/nov/30/wikileaks-cables-bradley-manning
Bullocks. The Swedes provided assistance to the Nazis, even when they claimed to be Neutral. They're not angels. This an arrest warrant standing on very shaky allegations. All signs point to BS.
JaredJames
Dec3-10, 11:38 PM
This seems a bit of a hap-hazard way to go about taking him down.
If the governments really wanted him to be silenced I'm fairly sure there would be more effective ways (or charges) that could do it.
Personally, I think the best thing that could be done is the governments simply ignoring him and wikileaks. Just show they won't be pressured or affected by the site. The fact they're panicking just makes it look like they've got something to hide.
NobodySpecial
Dec3-10, 11:41 PM
he fact they're panicking just makes it look like they've got something to hide.
Or they turn the leak into the story rather than the details of soldiers shooting civilians.
Or they turn the leak into the story rather than the details of soldiers shooting civilians.When the armed insurgents are using civilians in a war zone, the insurgents are at fault. The video proved that. Let's not confuse the facts.
JaredJames
Dec3-10, 11:53 PM
When the armed insurgents are using civilians in a war zone, the insurgents are at fault. The video proved that. Let's not confuse the facts.
Exactly, a perfect point which is tied into my point in the other thread.
Office_Shredder
Dec4-10, 02:40 AM
The Swedes provided assistance to the Nazis, even when they claimed to be Neutral..
If this is your argument for why Swedish arrest warrants shouldn't be trusted, you should just stop arguing
Fabchester
Dec4-10, 06:58 AM
I think this is a Gov't set up and consider him dead. Once dead will it trigger a massive release of all his documents and can the Gov'ts find his cache before this happens?
JaredJames
Dec4-10, 07:04 AM
I think this is a Gov't set up and consider him dead. Once dead will it trigger a massive release of all his documents and can the Gov'ts find his cache before this happens?
This isn't movie.
I see no reason why the governments would set him up like this. As I said before, if they wanted him gone they could do it a lot more effectively than some trivial sex charges which don't even carry jail time by the look of it.
Also, why would the government "consider him dead" based on these charges? He won't be going anywhere.
Fabchester
Dec4-10, 07:11 AM
but they need to discredit him and his reputation. killing him is to easy
Gokul43201
Dec4-10, 09:27 AM
When the armed insurgents are using civilians in a war zone, the insurgents are at fault.I generally agree. Moreover, I extend that same logic to other situations.
If unscrupulous diplomats make shady deals with corrupt officials and the shenanigans get revealed to the public and endanger security, the dealmakers are at fault. This whole Assange hunt seems to serve quite nicely as a means of deflecting attention away from people that did a lot of unsavory things.
NobodySpecial
Dec4-10, 10:48 AM
I generally agree. Moreover, I extend that same logic to other situations.
Indeed - the continued failure of an english player to win Wimbledon lowers moral and harms the country. From now on the scores of any British player in any international competition must be kept secret.
Proton Soup
Dec4-10, 01:54 PM
Why are you are assuming that he didn't rape anyone?
read the other thread. something about not using a condom. $700 fine and no jail time.
If this is your argument for why Swedish arrest warrants shouldn't be trusted, you should just stop arguing
I was answering this claim in particular: by MATLABdude: "The timing of this is terrible--it looks like people are out to 'get' him under spurious charges, rather than for legitimate reasons (which these may well be, especially if it's the Swedes who are pressing these)."
humanino
Dec4-10, 03:33 PM
read the other thread. something about not using a condom. $700 fine and no jail time.Besides, even if he did, interpol was never after rapists. Closest is children molesters, which does not apply. Interpol websites nowhere mentions they could go after him (at least according to the current charges).
So even if I were to accept that he already has done harm (I suspect the most worrisome is what could come in the future), the situation is not being handled lawfully. At some level, there is a double standard. My objection to this thread is that the current "diplomacy issue" is obviously dealt with using questionable diplomatic deals.
Interpol isn't 'after him'. At least get what's going on straight.
humanino
Dec4-10, 05:44 PM
Interpol isn't 'after him'. At least get what's going on straight.I do not understand why you are saying that. As of right now, interpol's website still has a red notice (http://www.interpol.int/Public/ICPO/PressReleases/PR2010/PR101.asp) up for Assange.
I do not understand why you are saying that. As of right now, interpol's website still has a red notice (http://www.interpol.int/Public/ICPO/PressReleases/PR2010/PR101.asp) up for Assange.
All that happens is if Assange is in a interpol country they are requested to contact Sweden and say he's there and allow them to request for extradition and begin the extradition process to Sweden.
He doesn't get arrested or anything he's not wanted it's just a request by interpol on behalf of Sweden. He is wanted by Sweden and INTERPOL is making this known, that's it that's all.
humanino
Dec4-10, 06:30 PM
...Well, thank you for attempting to clarify what this means, but as a matter of fact I already know that. You are trying to dismiss my argument by claiming that I believe interpol staff arrest people ?
Well, thank you for attempting to clarify what this means, but as a matter of fact I already know that. You are trying to dismiss my argument by claiming that I believe interpol staff arrest people ?
Your whole post was about Interpol 'going after him' this is false. Interpol is not after him Sweden is. That was the whole point I was making, you said something false I corrected it I wasn't dismissing what you said at all about is the Red notice acceptable based on the charges in Sweden and I never said I was soooooooo where you going with this?
It's good you know that by the way.
humanino
Dec4-10, 06:39 PM
...Then thank you for correcting mistake, and clarifying what the standard procedure is. I still remain concerned about the "diplomacy deals" behind this procedure, and I still think there is a double standard here. If it is not acceptable to release classified/private mails potentially harmful, neither is it acceptable that precisely what Assange is trying to fight is being used against him and the whole majority of news agencies do not report it.
Well, thank you for attempting to clarify what this means, but as a matter of fact I already know that. You are trying to dismiss my argument by claiming that I believe interpol staff arrest people ?
Now to just to dismiss your argument I would like for you to support the claim that INTERPOL is not a tool to be used by member nations in the apprehension of wanted persons otherwise known as fugitives.
Based on what I said before about it not being INTERPOL who is after Assange but Sweden it becomes clear that what you said is false.
The persons concerned are wanted by national jurisdictions (or the International Criminal Tribunals, where appropriate) and Interpol's role is to assist the national police forces in identifying or locating those persons with a view to their arrest and extradition.
Specifically the part about Interpol's role. Assange is a fugitive wanted by Sweden, Interpol's job is to help Sweden get him to their country. Precisely what they are doing right now.
Unless of course you have something to quote to support your claim that they don't issue wanted red notices for persons unless it has to do with child molestation or whatever you were going on about.
humanino
Dec4-10, 06:56 PM
I said that I searched on interpol website what justifies the red notice for Assange, and I have failed. It may be that it is there, but I just did not find it. In that case, I would appreciate help. However, I think I put reasonable efforts into trying to find what the justification is. He is not a child molester. Was there ever a rapist on red notice by interpol ? I think not.
Maybe intellectual property (http://www.interpol.int/Public/FinancialCrime/IntellectualProperty/Default.asp) could justify the red notice, but then let the red notice be about intellectual property, not rape. In any case, if somebody thinks they know what justifies or could justify his red notice according to interpol guidelines, please let them help me !
I said that I searched on interpol website what justifies the red notice for Assange, and I have failed. It may be that it is there, but I just did not find it. In that case, I would appreciate help. However, I think I put reasonable efforts into trying to find what the justification is. He is not a child molester. Was there ever a rapist on red notice by interpol ? I think not.
Maybe intellectualproperty (http://www.interpol.int/Public/FinancialCrime/IntellectualProperty/Default.asp) could justify the red notice, but then let the red notice be about intellectual property, not rape. In any case, if somebody thinks they know what justifies or could justify his red notice according to interpol guidelines, please let them help me !
Go to 'Fugitives' section of the website and then go to WANTED. That's what the red notice on Assange is issued for. It has nothing really to do with the crime commited but the fact that he is a fugitive of Sweden.
Now it's a whole other ball park whether or not this is the real reason behind Sweden apprehending Assange or not. I tend to think it is since America is still looking into it's legal abilities at apprehending Assange right?
humanino
Dec4-10, 11:20 PM
Go to 'Fugitives' section of the website and then go to WANTED. That's what the red notice on Assange is issued for. It has nothing really to do with the crime commited but the fact that he is a fugitive of Sweden.Well, I had already looked in there. And I searched many examples, but none I could find compares. This is simply preposterous that they use interpol to be after him for those charges. Assange was in contact with the prosecutrix and suggested several times that they either meet at the swedish embassy in the UK, by teleconference, or at the local police. It is not like he refuses any cooperation or was hiding before.
Now it's a whole other ball park whether or not this is the real reason behind Sweden apprehending Assange or not. I tend to think it is since America is still looking into it's legal abilities at apprehending Assange right?If I were convinced the two are unrelated, I would be more comfortable with the red notice. I am not even saying there should not be a red notice. I am just saying not for the current charges (alleged "rape", about which he was willing to cooperate).
mugaliens
Dec5-10, 12:15 AM
Ooops (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101204/ap_on_hi_te/wikileaks)...
And kudos to PayPal for doing the right thing.
Ivan Seeking
Dec5-10, 12:22 AM
If unscrupulous diplomats make shady deals with corrupt officials...
Is that the case, or is the sausage making just ugly? I keep thinking this is just a case where nobody wants to hear the truth about the nature of politics and diplomacy.
I don't know the details of all information released. What I have heard about didn't strike me as unusual or irregular.
JaredJames
Dec5-10, 02:23 AM
Is that the case, or is the sausage making just ugly? I keep thinking this is just a case where nobody wants to hear the truth about the nature of politics and diplomacy.
I don't know the details of all information released. What I have heard about didn't strike me as unusual or irregular.
I've moved my response here:
http://www.physicsforums.com/showpost.php?p=3020144&postcount=189
It seemed more appropriate in that thread.
http://news.oneindia.in/2010/12/07/swedish-warrant-rape-uk-arrest-assange-wikileaks.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+oneindia-news-india+%28Oneindia+-+News+India+%29
Swedish warrant arrives; UK to arrest Assange
The arrest warrant issued by the Swedish court has been submitted to the Scotland Yard on Monday, Dec 6. European media reported that Assange will be held soon. It is expected that British authorities may handover Assange to Sweden over the rape allegations made by two Swedish women.
Galteeth
Dec6-10, 11:36 PM
Is that the case, or is the sausage making just ugly? I keep thinking this is just a case where nobody wants to hear the truth about the nature of politics and diplomacy.
I don't know the details of all information released. What I have heard about didn't strike me as unusual or irregular.
Many, many things revealed would be crimes, or things that raise suspicion of crimes.
Galteeth
Dec6-10, 11:39 PM
There is of course the insurance policy which the government is very worried about; namely that if anything happens to him, he has threatened to release an encryption key for an extremely damaging document dump.
There is of course the insurance policy which the government is very worried about; namely that if anything happens to him, he has threatened to release an encryption key for an extremely damaging document dump.
Yes, that is a very interesting choice of insurance policies. If a country or organization wants to see that information, all they have to do is kill Assange?
Fortunately for Assange, he was arrested in London this morning (http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2010-12-06-wikileaks_N.htm?csp=34news).
JaredJames
Dec7-10, 06:04 AM
In court this afternoon (GMT). Going to be a good show.
Blackmail is on par with any information he might be holding - IMO.
hmmm it seems it's more than just a rape allegation but four.
She said the first complainant, Miss A, said she was victim of "unlawful coercion" on the night of 14 August in Stockholm.
The court heard Assange is accused of using his body weight to hold her down in a sexual manner.
The second charge alleged Assange "sexually molested" Miss A by having sex with her without a condom when it was her "express wish" one should be used.
The third charge claimed Assange "deliberately molested" Miss A on 18 August "in a way designed to violate her sexual integrity".
The fourth charge accused Assange of having sex with a second woman, Miss W, on 17 August without a condom while she was asleep at her Stockholm home.
Two different girls four different allegations I believe 3 seperate occassions. This is pretty serious if you ask me.
humanino
Dec7-10, 10:56 AM
Yes, that is a very interesting choice of insurance policies. If a country or organization wants to see that information, all they have to do is kill Assange?You may not understand the logic because you do not understand his point of view. He obviously dedicated his life and became passionate to the point where he is not reasonable anymore. From this point of view, it does make sense (at least it may make sense to him) that if his life were to be terminated, he would at least want the insurance that the information is not lost. I think it is pretty clear that he has extreme ideologies.
humanino
Dec7-10, 10:57 AM
hmmm it seems it's more than just a rape allegation but four.
Two different girls four different allegations I believe 3 seperate occassions. This is pretty serious if you ask me.The quote does not match the transcript I have seen. Can you please indicate where this quote comes from ?
The quote does not match the transcript I have seen. Can you please indicate where this quote comes from ?
The quote is from the live feed at the Guardian.co.uk website. It's attributed to Gemma Linfield 'for the Swedish authorities.'
EDIT:
Actual I just google searched for the full quote and found articles. A lot all dated for today:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2010/dec/07/julian-assange-refused-bail-over-rape-allegations
This is the one from the Guardian.
Gokul43201
Dec7-10, 11:08 AM
I'm interested in the source too, not that I have any reason to not believe it.
From what I read (although I think this was from Assange's lawyer) the two women maintained good relations with Assange after the alleged incidents had taken place, and until they found out about the other's existence. That was when they pressed charges.
Edit: Here's the link: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/11/18/assange_detain_sweden/
And the quote:Both women have declared that they had consensual sexual relations with our client and that they continued to instigate friendly contact well after the alleged incidents. Only after the women became aware of each other’s relationships with Mr. Assange did they make their allegations against him.Whether it's true or not, I don't know, but I imagine that's just a matter of checking the records.
I'm interested in the source too, not that I have any reason to not believe it.
From what I read (although I think this was from Assange's lawyer) the two women maintained good relations with Assange after the alleged incidents had taken place, and until they found out about the other's existence. That was when they pressed charges.
Edit: Here's the link: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/11/18/assange_detain_sweden/
And the quote:Whether it's true or not, I don't know, but I imagine that's just a matter of checking the records.
So it's a statement from his people saying that he didn't rape them but they both were in good relations after the event until after they found out about eachother. This is likely but it's also not surprising that he would say he didn't rape the girls... is it? This is why he needs to be arrested evidence brought forth and go through the proper process. Just because you say you're innocent doesn't mean you get to run away from the law.
Gokul43201
Dec7-10, 11:25 AM
I don't have an opinion on whether or not he should be arrested. I'm not privy to the level of information that would allow me to take a position on that. But given the sequence and confluence of events, I believe there's reason to be suspicious of the way things are proceeding.
I don't have an opinion on whether or not he should be arrested. I'm not privy to the level of information that would allow me to take a position on that. But given the sequence and confluence of events, I believe there's reason to be suspicious of the way things are proceeding.
Perhaps but the only way to know is as things unfold in the case right?
I tend to think it's less suspicious based on the fact that these two girls are just regular people. They aren't government officials and I'm not sure that the government would trust them in a conspiracy against Assange. I mean 'keep quiet say he raped you and we'll give you money'... but all it would take is for one person to speak out that is part of this case. I lean more towards the rape allegations are a seperate event and hope that Sweden is just following through based on the popularity that Assange has gained.
I don't think it would look good on the Swedish legal system if two girls came alleging rape and they didn't invetigate properly. (based on how famous Assange is)
BTW, I posted the source for that quote from before above, you posted right after so I'm not sure if you noticed it.
Gokul43201
Dec7-10, 11:58 AM
Yes, I saw it after I posted. I guess I'd have been a lot less suspicious if the case hadn't first been dismissed by the lead prosecutor, before being reopened a week later, with no new charges. But yes, we won't know until events pan out.
humanino
Dec7-10, 12:59 PM
The quote is from the live feed at the Guardian.co.uk website. It's attributed to Gemma Linfield 'for the Swedish authorities.'
EDIT:
Actual I just google searched for the full quote and found articles. A lot all dated for today:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2010/dec/07/julian-assange-refused-bail-over-rape-allegations
This is the one from the Guardian.
Thank you. I will read it later today.
mugaliens
Dec8-10, 10:36 PM
hmmm it seems it's more than just a rape allegation but four.
Two different girls four different allegations I believe 3 seperate occassions. This is pretty serious if you ask me.
Who knows? Might be. Might not be. There seems to be a lot of conflicting information/stories running around (http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/12/assange-rape-accuser-cia-ties/), including that at least one of the girls texted and tweeted about her conquest. Then came questions of a possible CIA link. Then chaos and confusion.
Perhaps that's by design of Assange's lawyers. Perhaps it's by design of one or more of the governments whose classified info was leaked. Perhaps it's merely the natural order of things, entropy doing it's worst during times of a heated issue, with emotions running high on most sides.
We can't really know, at this point, as we're on the outside.
In the meantime, as time goes by, at least some of the truth will come out in the wash. My viewpoint as a retired veteran is that Assange, who is undeniably known to have released damaging, classified information into the public domain, is off the streets, at least for the time being, and in my book, that's a good thing.
My sole hope is that ultimately, the truth will out and justice will prevail based on the truth, not any of the rampant smear campaigns.
CRGreathouse
Dec8-10, 11:35 PM
My sole hope is that ultimately, the truth will out and justice will prevail based on the truth, not any of the rampant smear campaigns.
That would be hard to imagine.
That would be hard to imagine.Agreed. Assange has already been pilloried and publicly smeared in the press, without a single hearing or trial. Even if the charges against him are dropped today, any Google search on Assange will pull up "rape" and "sexual assault" for the rest of his life.
Agreed. Assange has already been pilloried and publicly smeared in the press, without a single hearing or trial. Even if the charges against him are dropped today, any Google search on Assange will pull up "rape" and "sexual assault" for the rest of his life.
Are we really concerned about his public image?:confused:
Did he take the time to verify all of the information that he released (as a legitimate press would be expected to do) - was he worried about anyone else's reputation?
Of course: (http://dailycaller.com/2010/12/08/berkeley-may-honor-army-private-accused-of-leaks/#ixzz17eCyxEId)
The Berkeley City Council will consider a resolution that would declare the Army private suspected of leaking classified information to WikiLeaks a hero and call for his release.
If PFC Manning had been found guilty, I'd say the fine Berkeley Councilmen are also guilty of treason.
Of course: (http://dailycaller.com/2010/12/08/berkeley-may-honor-army-private-accused-of-leaks/#ixzz17eCyxEId)
If PFC Manning had been found guilty, I'd say the fine Berkeley Councilmen are also guilty of treason.
I doubt if this surprises anyone. I recall a thread a few weeks ago where we discussed why it was acceptable to ban the US Flag in public schools (so it didn't enrage people not of American origins).
In a way, I'm glad this lunacy is coming out - we have 2 more years of Obama - then we can take our country back from the Far Left Side (hmmm...hmmmmm-shhh ...I'm chanting).:rolleyes:
Gokul43201
Dec9-10, 02:42 PM
Naturally, Obama is to blame for the decision of the Berkeley Council.
I doubt if this surprises anyone. I recall a thread a few weeks ago where we discussed why it was acceptable to ban the US Flag in public schools (so it didn't enrage people not of American origins).
In a way, I'm glad this lunacy is coming out - we have 2 more years of Obama - then we can take our country back from the Far Left Side (hmmm...hmmmmm-shhh ...I'm chanting).:rolleyes:Don't count me among your 'we', as the Berkley Council does not control the country, and though I disagree with him on most things, nor has the President announced any hero awards for Manning.
Don't count me among your 'we', as the Berkley Council does not control the country, and though I disagree with him on most things, nor has the President announced any hero awards for Manning.
I didn't expect you would (join the "we").
As for the President, time will tell. It seems we are accumulating a plateful of controversial cases - including Fort Hood. Maybe his (Clinton-like) move to the center will insulate him?
I'm sorry if this has been said earlier in the thread: I am busy and unable to read the entire thing.
As far as i'm aware, Julian Assange definitely had consensual sex with these women, but the grey area I believe is surrounding the use (or lack thereof) a condom. I believe in Switzerland this is a touchy subject.
NobodySpecial
Dec9-10, 09:51 PM
As far as i'm aware, Julian Assange definitely had consensual sex with these women, but the grey area I believe is surrounding the use (or lack thereof) a condom.
The arguement is something like that the women agreed to sex with a condom - the condom failed so technically he didn't hold up (snigger) his part of the bargain - so the sex wasn't as agreed therefore non-consensual - therefore rape.
Unsurprisingly this isn't the first time this has happened in the land of Abba - although it is the first time that has prompted an international arrest warrant.
I believe in Switzerland this is a touchy subject.
Possibly but since this happened in Sweden it probably doesn't matter what a bunch of chocolate eating not-even-getting involved monkeys think.
The arguement is something like that the women agreed to sex with a condom - the condom failed so technically he didn't hold up (snigger) his part of the bargain - so the sex wasn't as agreed therefore non-consensual - therefore rape.
Unsurprisingly this isn't the first time this has happened in the land of Abba - although it is the first time that has prompted an international arrest warrant.
Possibly but since this happened in Sweden it probably doesn't matter what a bunch of chocolate eating not-even-getting involved monkeys think is irrelevent.
Ops! I wonder how I typed Switzerland? Hehe
Thanks for the clarifications, however.
Proton Soup
Dec9-10, 10:05 PM
The arguement is something like that the women agreed to sex with a condom - the condom failed so technically he didn't hold up (snigger) his part of the bargain - so the sex wasn't as agreed therefore non-consensual - therefore rape.
Unsurprisingly this isn't the first time this has happened in the land of Abba - although it is the first time that has prompted an international arrest warrant.
there was also an allegation of having sex with one of the women while she was sleeping.
The arguement is something like that the women agreed to sex with a condom - the condom failed so technically he didn't hold up (snigger) his part of the bargain - so the sex wasn't as agreed therefore non-consensual - therefore rape.
That's the story to Assange's lawyer, not any other neutral party and certainly not from the prosecutor.
The details of his sex life with apparent "wikileaks groupies" is nothing but a distraction - he needs to be let out on bail - put him back on the street and watch his actions closely.
humanino
Dec10-10, 08:27 AM
That's the story to Assange's lawyer, not any other neutral party and certainly not from the prosecutor.Until there is a justice decision, it is certainly not up to PF members whether Assange's or the prosecutor's story is true.
Until there is a justice decision, it is certainly not up to PF members whether Assange's or the prosecutor's story is true.
Of course not - perhaps this thread should be closed?
zomgwtf
Dec10-10, 11:07 AM
The details of his sex life with apparent "wikileaks groupies" is nothing but a distraction - he needs to be let out on bail - put him back on the street and watch his actions closely.
He can't be let out on bail according to the law. That's his own fault.
zomgwtf
Dec10-10, 11:09 AM
From Sweden's Penal CodeA person who by violence or threat which involves, or appears to
the threatened person to involve an imminent danger, forces another
person to have sexual intercourse or to engage in a comparable
sexual act, that having regard to the nature of the violation and the
circumstances in general, is comparable to enforced sexual
intercourse, shall be sentenced for rape to imprisonment for at least
two and at most six years. Causing helplessness or a similar state of
incapacitation shall be regarded as equivalent to violence.
If having regard to the nature of the violence or the threat and
the circumstances in general, the crime is considered less serious, a
sentence to imprisonment for at most four years shall be imposed.
If the crime is gross, a sentence to imprisonment for at least four
and at most ten years shall be imposed for gross rape. In assessing
whether the crime is gross, special consideration shall be given to
whether the violence involved a danger to life or whether the
perpetrator caused serious injury or serious illness or, having regard
to the method used or the victim's youth or other circumstances,
exhibited particular ruthlessness or brutality. (Law 1998:393)
Section 2
A person who, under circumstances other than those defined in
Section 1, makes someone engage in a sexual act by unlawful
coercion shall be sentenced for sexual coercion to imprisonment for
at most two years.
If the person who committed the act exhibited particular
ruthlessness or if the crime is otherwise considered gross, a sentence
of at least six months and at most four years shall be imposed for
gross sexual coercion. (Law 1992:147)
I am only posting this because there seems to be several myths floating around the internet about various rape or surprise sex or what have you laws.
It appears there are 3 levels of rape and 2 levels of sexual coercion. Regular, lesser and gross for rape and regular and gross for sexual coercion.
I think that Assange under these allegations would be chaarged for lesser rape and gross sexual coercion. This would be max 4 years and 6mths to 4 years respectively.
humanino
Dec10-10, 12:46 PM
Of course not - perhaps this thread should be closed?It is neither for me not for you to tell. Either of us could report the other however. On my part, I guess staying away from the discussion should do just fine.
Fortunately for me, I speak other languages, which allows me to benefit as well from non-US point of views and reports.
Fortunately for me, I speak other languages, which allows me to benefit as well from non-US point of views and reports.I don't do as well as you do, but there are enough posts to allow me to get some glimpses from outside the US.
mheslep
Dec10-10, 02:56 PM
Until there is a justice decision, it is certainly not up to PF members whether Assange's or the prosecutor's story is true.Yes well the place to put that comment was after the introduction of the story by Nobody above, where it was given as a neutral narrative without attribution.
Julian Assange is asking, "Why has no evidence been provided even to me and my defense attorneys?" (regarding the sex crimes).
I think they have to provide the evidence only inside the court room. So it might be ok not to provide evidences to Julian Assange or his defense attorneys. But I wonder what evidence the "rape victim"'s side come up with. The incident had no witnesses (it was no orgy party).
mheslep
Dec17-10, 02:58 PM
Julian Assange is asking, "Why has no evidence been provided even to me and my defense attorneys?" (regarding the sex crimes).
I think they have to provide the evidence only inside the court room. So it might be ok not to provide evidences to Julian Assange or his defense attorneys. But I wonder what evidence the "rape victim"'s side come up with. The incident had no witnesses (it was no orgy party).Have any sources?
Have any sources?
http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/europe/12/17/uk.wikileaks.investigation/index.html?hpt=T2
mheslep
Dec17-10, 03:35 PM
http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/europe/12/17/uk.wikileaks.investigation/index.html?hpt=T2That say's nothing about your statement on the lack of witnesses.
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