Bush's IQ 129 – Links provided [Archive]

Tigers2B1

Sep29-04, 11:37 AM

This post is made mostly in fun since I don't believe that IQ directly translates into intelligence. I do believe, however, that IQ results provide us with an indication of potential. So, in response to all of the board talk regarding IQ, and admittedly, to take a tiny jab at the liberals on what they seem to claim as their own scared turf, as shown in their continuing need to describe conservatives 'dumb' –- I decided to post this --- just in case some of you were still wondering. Contrary to the Democrat's constant drone, Bush might be quite intelligent. At least according to objective measures –

Before the present SAT there was a correlation between SAT scores and IQ scores. (The present SAT has been changed and this correlation no longer exists) If George W. Bush's pre-1974 SAT score was a combined 1206 as reported in numerous sites on the internet –(an SAT score that was "recentered" up in the mid 90s) -- than this SAT score converts to an IQ of 129 on the Otis-Gamma IQ test. The Otis-Gamma test is reported to have a standard deviation of 15, which makes the converted score almost two standard deviations above the norm.

http://members.shaw.ca/delajara/Pre1974SAT.html

Those of you who accept the numbers above –– should also note that the indicated IQ would be in the top 3% of the population. As stated in the linked material, these correlations were developed using a little more than 400 SAT and Otis IQ test takers.

In addition – the actual correlation for the pre-1994 test to the WAIS is +.80. This is higher than some IQ tests have with each other as shown in the quote below. This quote is concerning the pre-1994 SAT. Note the correlations given --

In fact, the test was developed by Princeton professor Carl Brigham, who had been one of the Army I.Q. testing team during the first world war. One of its first applications was by Harvard president James Bryant Conant in his establishment of the Harvard national scholarship program. He was looking for a way to find and admit capable students from parts of the U.S. where the university would not otherwise have looked. Newsweek reports: "There was one point about it on which Conant repeatedly demanded reassurance: was it a pure test of intelligence, rather than of the quality of the taker's education? Otherwise he was concerned that bright boys who had been born into modest circumstances and gone to poor schools would be penalized." Only after being convinced that the SAT was a pure intelligence test did Conant implement its use.
Consider the correlations between various standard tests and the WAIS:

WAIS to Stanford Binet = 0.77

WAIS to Raven's = 0.72

WAIS to Otis = 0.78

WAIS to SAT = 0.80

The designers of the SAT benchmarked it against the Otis; the similarity of correlations between the SAT and the WAIS was no accident. It is no wonder that high IQ societies (including Mensa, Intertel, ISPE, and TNS) have accepted the pre-1994 SAT as proof of membership qualification. TNS is presumably going to continue to accept it, with an adjusted score (to compensate for recent tinkering).

Note also that the quote above states that the SAT was actually benchmarked using the Otis-Gamma IQ test. The Otis test was used in the SAT to IQ conversion cited above.
Here’s the link –

http://members.cox.net/sidelock/pages/Telicom090299.html

Kerry apparently refuses to provide his SAT scores. So comparisons, for whatever they're worth, can't be made.

graphic7

Sep29-04, 11:46 AM

With an SAT score like that, you would think that he would've made better grades in college. Maybe's he just lazy, but when did lazy become a positive quality of a future president?

humanino

Sep29-04, 12:20 PM

This post is made mostly in fun since I don't believe that IQ directly translates into intelligence.
Me neither.

Contrary to the Democrat's constant drone, Bush might be quite intelligent. So he has a reason to hide it ?

George W. Bush's (...) score[s] (...) 129
Did you ever wonder what's the average presidential IQ in Europe ?
Jacques Chirac scores much better for instance. Well, he still is a huge mess !
This is totally irrelevant.

Gokul43201

Sep29-04, 12:24 PM

So Dubya's really a closet genius ?

Now that's busted a big myth for me. I always thought Dubya had a lower than 100 IQ, but now I know his IQ is higher than mine ! :cry:

Tigers2B1

Sep29-04, 12:25 PM

Did you ever wonder what's the average presidential IQ in Europe ?

No, what are they? :tongue2:

Tigers2B1

Sep29-04, 12:28 PM

So Dubya's really a closet genius ?
Nope, he's been bona fide

Gokul43201

Sep29-04, 12:30 PM

So , the democrats have been misunderestimating Dubya all along, and that's what screwed up their strategery.

Zantra

Sep29-04, 12:33 PM

yes and that marilyn von whatsherface (the smartest person in the world) can't answer simple problem solving questions correctly.

It doesn't matter if he has an IQ of 190- he still is a horrible public speaker. And the institution of the presidency requires more than just raw intelligence. It's all about image. If you're a genius and you portray the wrong image to the public and rest of the world, it doesn't matter how smart you are. It's all about perception.

Tigers2B1

Sep29-04, 12:37 PM

Please, I am just a messenger. A mere vessel providing you unwanted and perturbing knowledge of Dubya's IQ.

the number 42

Sep29-04, 01:19 PM

If George W. Bush's pre-1974 SAT score was a combined 1206 as reported in numerous sites on the internet –(an SAT score that was "recentered" up in the mid 90s) -- than this SAT score converts to an IQ of 129 on the Otis-Gamma IQ test.

GBW's IQ 129? I can't imagine he scored too high on the verbal reasoning part of the test, so he must be a GENIUS in visuo-spatial and mathmatical skills (if I'm right in assuming that these make up the test).

No, this sounds like comedy, Tigers2B1. Something along the lines of Peter Sellars' Being There.

Gokul43201

Sep29-04, 01:27 PM

No, number_42, Bush's IQ is calculated from his SAT score of 1206 (Al Gore scored 1355 - just for comparison - not that it means very much).

humanino

Sep29-04, 01:43 PM

No, what are they? :tongue2:
In France for instance, our politicians usually have a background that could open them any door in their field. Some of them have the honor of one of the most difficult school to study mathematics (which is Ecole Normale Superieure Ulm, maybe the most difficult level in math before a PhD) and all of them, whatever their background, still have another most difficult school : Ecole Nationale d'Administration beyond this, which is specialized in everything you could imagine for a politician. Of course, this is only the beginning. But the story keeps the same : all those guys could have been making plenty of money. But no, for philosophical reasons, they choose to devote their entire life to thinking of the best way to manage the republic in a democratic way, being aware they sacrifice money. Oh by the way, there is absolutely nothing wrong with being both democratic and republican. Naming two sides of a political model this way is simply stupid.

Also, when one rich family has two sons, the most succesful son in your country goes for business, whereas the failure one takes the remaining politics. Why again ? Money ! Apparently you imagine money is the solution for everything. This is your problem, and unfortunately, it is contaminating Europe. The people now think the real power is no more in politics. We used to think an alternative way was possible. I think the american responsability in establishing free market as the rule of the world today is not funny. It is terrible. More specifiaclly against Georges : the responsability he has in discrediting the UN. Also in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. I won't list, because only those two are enough for a people to raise and kick the stupid dangerous cow-boy out of the powerful sit he was given. I usually never post anything here, because my political opinions would probably trigger numerous diatribes.

Tigers2B1

Sep29-04, 02:56 PM

Just as I suspected!! – you've refused to post the IQs of your leaders. Apparently, even collectively, when all added together, they are no match for Bush.

Now look here – it's best you learn this now even if them 'diatribes' scare ya. No European is smarter or meaner than an American, and no American is as smart or as mean as a Texan. So figure, would you rather be an effete, powered wig wearin' European, sipping tea with your pinky held high, or a rough honed Texan, sitting at the dinner table splattered with cow blood? Americans don't drink tea, we throw it off ships. We're wild men, sired by the smallpox. Eating petrified hearts by the bushel and drinking desert sand by the barrel.

Remember humanino – Americans are a breed apart. Most Europeans were 'too scared' to cross the ocean, the thought sent'em all shaking in their big, black, giant buckled shoes. The weak ones died in trying. We're mean, we're tough, we're self-selected and we're self-centered, and we don't like abstract painters. No guy named 'Jacques' will ever whip an American – that's for certain.

humanino

Sep29-04, 03:22 PM

No European is smarter or meaner than an American, and no American is as smart or as mean as a Texan.
I never said that. I think you do not take politics as seriously as we do. Alright, this guy plays saxophone, he seems fine !

And by the way, I love americans. I am currently in love with one of yours, top quality. I might also take one of your job. Europe is very far from perfect. We both need to consider what the other is doing better. We are doing better at electing smart guys. It unfortunately seems useless, because de facto the market rules. So in the end, you win. We understood that for a while now. Some of us still do not want to accept this jungle. Maybe you will join us in a few decades when China will ruin your economical power, as they already started to. Maybe in this case, you are going to realize "maybe we need some regulations on the markets". Elementary rules. Share. Make the world a fair place. Not just the best place for your fat ***.

Tigers2B1

Sep29-04, 04:24 PM

...Not just the best place for your fat ***.

Look, I know I'm no Jerry Lewis, but I thought you'd like my cheap xenophobic humor. But alas, after 200 years of French military losses a sour attitude is understandable. About the only war you ever won was the French Revolution, and that was because you were fighting yourselves.

Just my two francs –

humanino

Sep29-04, 04:35 PM

I apologize if you took it for yourself. Apparently you did not listen when I told you I make a difference between the governement and the people. I am only saying this guy Georges has proven he has no respect for the rest of humanity. I am not saying kicking him out would have been easy. I am saying please, for the good of the planet equilibrium, do not give a second occasion to ruin the world. As for war :

Le jour où personne ne reviendra d'une guerre, c'est qu'elle aura enfin été bien faite.

"A war from which nobody comes back, would be the first properly done one"
War can always be avoided. Except if one looses his nerves.

wasteofo2

Sep29-04, 06:05 PM

OHHHHHHHHHHHH!

That changes everything!!!!!!

Forget what he's actually done as President, if his IQ might be around 129, he's got my vote for sure.

Smurf

Sep29-04, 06:22 PM

Look, I know I'm no Jerry Lewis, but I thought you'd like my cheap xenophobic humor. But alas, after 200 years of French military losses a sour attitude is understandable. About the only war you ever won was the French Revolution, and that was because you were fighting yourselves.

Just my two francs –

Tigers I hope you'll appreciate how well I'm restraining myself from insulting you right now. You'll find yourself sorely outnumbered if you proceed to make comments like that.

And France uses the Euro.

GENIERE

Sep29-04, 06:58 PM

BuIQ’s of some presidents according to various web sites and sometimes extrapolated scores:

JFK - - - - 119
Nixon - - - 143
Carter - - - genius (?)
Clinton - - 135
Gore (VP)-134
Bush - - - -125

Bush did get a 1206 SAT score with a verbal 566 and a math 640. Because of the dumbing down of the present SAT test he would score higher today.

It seems the higher IQ guys are the one’s that had flawed presidencies, the jury is still out re: Pres. Bush.

wasteofo2

Sep29-04, 08:09 PM

Integral

Sep29-04, 08:25 PM

It makes me wonder who took the test for him.

klusener

Sep29-04, 08:29 PM

lol..

"Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."

- George Bush

Anyone who is capable of making such a quote and can't pronounce nuclear is not smart in my book...

Gokul43201

Sep29-04, 09:01 PM

...Just my two francs
..And France uses the Euro.
Even otherwise, that would be 'two centimes.'

Gokul43201

Sep29-04, 09:13 PM

BuIQ’s of some presidents according to various web sites and sometimes extrapolated scores:

JFK - - - - 119
Nixon - - - 143
Carter - - - genius (?)
Clinton - - 135
Gore (VP)-134
Bush - - - -125

According to Tigers2B1's link, Gore should be 137 (his SAT score was 1355)

Bush did get a 1206 SAT score with a verbal 566 and a math 640. Because of the dumbing down of the present SAT test he would score higher today.

What about the dumbing down of Bush himself ?

Here's my theory : Bush, as a young man was partying a lot, meeting different people, expanding his mind, and having varied experiences. All these experiences gave him some smarts.

Then one day, he got 'born again', and has since been swallowing the misinformation pills handed out by the church. Now, as a result, he can't speak the language, won't follow the news and will perform fuzzy math.

GENIERE

Sep29-04, 09:56 PM

How're you going to label Clinton's Presidency flawed but not JFK? Is it because JFK got it on with Marylin Monroe, and Clinton favored random white-trash?

And I wonder, why aren't Reagan and Bush Sr.'s IQ's listed? I wouldn't doubt Bush Sr.'s relatively high, but Reagan...

JFK! I voted for him. Probably vote for him if he were still here. I recall, maybe incorrectly, that he provided the largest tax reduction (rich-man, poor-man, business) than his predecessor’s ever conceived. Unlike Clinton, he did not disgrace his office and had enough intelligence to be discrete. What he did do that the neo-libs cannot do; is he defied the USSR, put us at the brink of nuclear disaster, because it was the right thing to do. As a result President Reagan was able to bring the USSR to its knees without fear of a 30-second flight of a nuclear missile from Cuba.

As far as white-trash, I like my trash in a full spectrum of colors and I enjoyed a fair sampling! Who am I to complain?

Reagan and Bush Sr. were too old to have taken an IQ or SAT test. Both were college grads, both probably had a lot more than an average IQ.

wasteofo2

Sep29-04, 10:09 PM

JFK! I voted for him. Probably vote for him if he were still here. I recall, maybe incorrectly, that he provided the largest tax reduction (rich-man, poor-man, business) than his predecessor’s ever conceived. Unlike Clinton, he did not disgrace his office and had enough intelligence to be discrete. What he did do that the neo-libs cannot do; is he defied the USSR, put us at the brink of nuclear disaster, because it was the right thing to do. As a result President Reagan was able to bring the USSR to its knees without fear of a 30-second flight of a nuclear missile from Cuba.

As far as white-trash, I like my trash in a full spectrum of colors and I enjoyed a fair sampling! Who am I to complain?

Reagan and Bush Sr. were too old to have taken an IQ or SAT test. Both were college grads, both probably had a lot more than an average IQ.
JFK points accepted.

But seriously, maybe Reagan was smart as a young man, but I can not fathom that he was smart as a President. I recently saw a re-broadcast of the second (final) '84 debate between Reagan and Mondale, and that guy was just totally clueless.

Gokul43201

Sep29-04, 10:14 PM

But so is most of the public. And that's why the clueless dude wins.

Smurf

Sep29-04, 10:30 PM

What he did do that the neo-libs cannot do; is he defied the USSR, put us at the brink of nuclear disaster, because it was the right thing to do. As a result President Reagan was able to bring the USSR to its knees without fear of a 30-second flight of a nuclear missile from Cuba.

Sorry, but I can't help but scoff at that. It worries me the way you say things. "Put us at the brink of nuclear disaster, because it was the right thing to do". no really, say that again to yourself slowly. You'll get it eventually. :rofl:

Mercator

Sep30-04, 01:42 AM

It's sad to see what drinking and smoking pot can do to a relatively bright man.

the number 42

Sep30-04, 05:34 AM

Does anyone actually believe that George W Bush has an IQ of 125? Where is the hard evidence of the test he took? Sure, the guy may be cunning, but that may be more to do with emotional intelligence of a kind, which I would credit him with having. However Reagan - someone who probably had a pretty high EQ in his day, had some charm, which we more typically associate with EQ.

My analysis of GWB's IQ isn't scientific, but going by speeches, actions etc he doesn't strike me as bright in any way, except perhaps in cunning.

Gokul43201

Sep30-04, 09:40 AM

You can guess answers using "enie, meanie, minie, mo" and sometimes, just luck out and get a decent score. I've no doubt whatsoever, that's what happened ! :biggrin:

Smurf

Sep30-04, 09:43 AM

All I know is I've taken 20 different IQ tests and had scores ranging from 45 to 192 so I'm not thinking too much of it.

BobG

Sep30-04, 09:56 AM

Now look here – it's best you learn this now even if them 'diatribes' scare ya. No European is smarter or meaner than an American, and no American is as smart or as mean as a Texan. So figure, would you rather be an effete, powered wig wearin' European, sipping tea with your pinky held high, or a rough honed Texan, sitting at the dinner table splattered with cow blood? Americans don't drink tea, we throw it off ships. We're wild men, sired by the smallpox. Eating petrified hearts by the bushel and drinking desert sand by the barrel.

:rofl:
Except maybe for "a skinny little boy from Cleveland, Ohio... Here to drink your women and chase your beer" - Alex Bevan's "Skinny Little Boy"

BobG

Sep30-04, 10:01 AM

What he did do that the neo-libs cannot do; is he defied the USSR, put us at the brink of nuclear disaster, because it was the right thing to do.

He set up the Bay of Pigs disaster and deployed missiles to Turkey, intigating the Cuban Missile Crisis. He then publicly stood up to the USSR while quietly removing the missiles from Turkey.

Not a great strategy, but he did do one good thing that George W. did not. He always had a safe retreat available and that is what pulled us back from the brink of nuclear disaster, not his defiant stand.

Robert Zaleski

Sep30-04, 10:12 AM

Gokul43201

Sep30-04, 10:21 AM

No one said anything about "skillful manipulation". And even so, I believe that skillful manipulation of words does have something to do with intelligence - wit and intelligence have a high correlation. It's not the only thing, however, and that's the flaw in you line of "reasoning".

But if you don't have a basic vocabulary, or seem to be oblivious of grammar, or even what constitutes a logical argument, you can't claim to be a man of intellect.

the number 42

Sep30-04, 12:51 PM

If the skillful manipulation of words had anything to do with intelligence, Mohamad Ali would be proclaimed a genius.

If the skillful manipulation of words was the only measure of intelligence I might agree.

I've met many people who are not articulate but appear to be intelligent in other ways e.g. strong artistic talent, complex mental arithmatic skills etc but GWB is a different matter. Let me put it this way: if he was ordinary joe delivering the mail I would consider it cruel to highlight his fairly obvious lack of intelligence. Come on, guys - who can look at this guy and listen to him speak without thinking 'Thunderbirds are Go'...? An IQ of 129???

selfAdjoint

Sep30-04, 04:43 PM

Some bloggers are wondering whether his mind has deteriorated since he was governor of Texas. Apparently when he debated the former governer during his first run for that office he gave every sign of inteligence, responded quickly and flexibly and used big words with ease. Versus now. Daring doctors are offering diagnoses ranging from pre-senile dementia to mad cow disease. Personally I think that if true, it could be due to excessive cocain usage in his thrities. Well known to rot your brain.:)

wasteofo2

Sep30-04, 04:57 PM

Not to mention all the drinking he did...

omin

Sep30-04, 05:44 PM

I'd like to add a point.

Are you sure Bushes IQ isn't .911? That's a real intelligence problem.

Zoidsoft

Oct1-04, 10:15 AM

[QUOTE=It doesn't matter if he has an IQ of 190- he still is a horrible public speaker. And the institution of the presidency requires more than just raw intelligence. It's all about image. If you're a genius and you portray the wrong image to the public and rest of the world, it doesn't matter how smart you are. It's all about perception.[/QUOTE]

Or rather, it's all about the De-ception. Bush enjoys being perceived as stupid. It will get him more votes than if he was perceived to be smart; at least this is the case with the average joe, american public. It is also protection for him against his enemies who underestimate him, making his job easier. Reagan is also one to understand this very well.

It may be different now, but when I was young, it wasn't cool to be smart, and most people who vote rermember those days. Young people in general are less likely to vote.

I think this was also part of Clinton's problem in never being fully accepted as a leader. Many people in the south deeply hate him, which interestingly is a demographic that is a bit behind in education. Clinton reportedly has an IQ of 137 (I wish I could remember the source). The 182 reported by the "fake" Lovenstein Institute is bogus.

zoidsoft

Gokul43201

Oct1-04, 10:24 AM

Bush enjoys being perceived as stupid. It will get him more votes than if he was perceived to be smart; at least this is the case with the average joe, american public...

It may be different now, but when I was young, it wasn't cool to be smart, and most people who vote rermember those days.

I can't agree more. People seem to have a soft spot for 'stupid' while 'intellectual' is about the worst thing you can be labeled.

Zoidsoft

Oct1-04, 10:37 AM

I can't agree more. People seem to have a soft spot for 'stupid' while 'intellectual' is about the worst thing you can be labeled.

Forest Gump was a real hit in this country in 1994. Just another observation that I'm not quite sure of:

It seems to me that the nerds, misfits, blenders in high school became democrats predominately, while the jocks and social climbers became republicans.

I could swear this was true at my high school, but maybe it's peculiar to my experience.

zoidsoft

Gokul43201

Oct1-04, 11:10 AM

It seems to me that the nerds, misfits, blenders in high school became democrats predominately, while the jocks and social climbers became republicans.

As Larry King said, (in response to a Bill Maher statement that the South is, on average, dumber than the rest of the country), "Can you actually say something like that...I mean, in this day and age ?"

(I wonder what Larry meant ? In this day and age...of political correctness ?)

Zoidsoft

Oct1-04, 11:18 AM

I think that this is cultural, not genetic. This is as politically correct as I'm willing to get. The issue that worries me long term is that the USA as a whole does not favor intelligence, as say many other countries, particularly India, japan and China. This means that the US is going against evolution, which in the long term dooms the "american species" to extinction.

zoidsoft

Smurf

Oct1-04, 11:25 AM

GBW's IQ 129? I can't imagine he scored too high on the verbal reasoning part of the test, so he must be a GENIUS in visuo-spatial and mathmatical skills (if I'm right in assuming that these make up the test).
Either that or he's a walking example of how we don't use our whole brain.

Gokul43201

Oct1-04, 11:33 AM

Zoidsoft

Oct1-04, 11:50 AM

Ha ha...but the Indians, Chinese and Japanese (especially, the intelligent ones) are becoming Americans! I'm sure you see enough of this...at Cornell ?

Actually, there was a report on 60 minutes a couple of months ago about a school in India that was so good (in computer science) that the worst students go to Ivy league schools in the USA as a fall back position (if they flunk out). I wish I could remember the name of the school.

zoidsoft

Smurf

Oct1-04, 11:52 AM

Zoidsoft

Oct1-04, 11:59 AM

I'd comment on this but I don't understand what you and Gokul are arguing about right now, are you saying Americans shun Intelligence and thats why they're getting weaker, are you saying that Chinese, Japanese and Indians are following this trend? or are they on the rise?

I wouldn't say that America is getting weaker. Evolution as a trend takes many thousands of years, but nations rarely last that long anyway, so the point may be moot. But as a metaphor, when America shuns education as an important part of life, it is going against the grain of nature.

zoidsoft

Gokul43201

Oct1-04, 12:18 PM

Actually, there was a report on 60 minutes a couple of months ago about a school in India that was so good (in computer science) that the worst students go to Ivy league schools in the USA as a fall back position (if they flunk out). I wish I could remember the name of the school.

zoidsoft

Ha ha. Perhaps you refer to the Indian Institute of Technology ?

And NO, I don't think anyone that flunks out will stand a chance of getting into an Ivy League School - not that they would find the level of education daunting, were they accepted.

Gokul43201

Oct1-04, 12:22 PM

the number 42

Oct1-04, 01:40 PM

I wouldn't say that America is getting weaker. Evolution as a trend takes many thousands of years, but nations rarely last that long

Bear in mind that the brain evolves (or devolves too, I suppose) much faster than the rest of the body.

But lets stick to the point: Bush's IQ 129? I agree with the comment that he may have been bright once upon a time, but lifestyle has taken its toll. It would be interesting to see test his IQ now. Indeed if his IQ has deteriorated, that's nothing less than a matter of national security. Its happened before, after all, to poor old Ronnie.

Zoidsoft

Oct1-04, 01:55 PM

Ha ha. Perhaps you refer to the Indian Institute of Technology ?

And NO, I don't think anyone that flunks out will stand a chance of getting into an Ivy League School - not that they would find the level of education daunting, were they accepted.

I googled it and found:

http://www.indianembassy.org/US_Media/2003/mar/cbs_iit.shtml

zoidsoft

The_Professional

Oct2-04, 09:15 PM

Not to pick on Bush or anything but doesn't IQ decline with age? and how many points a year?

Integral

Oct2-04, 09:26 PM

Not to pick on Bush or anything but doesn't IQ decline with age? and how many points a year?
You are treading on soft soil, watch your step!

johny_doe

Oct17-04, 08:06 PM

Bush's IQ can't be much higher than the actual president, Al Gore, Gore invented the frickin internet after all, :biggrin: . That was a joke, but still, bush needed an earpiece for all his debates to know where "he" stood. I say "he" because bush is a puppet. Just for the sake of argument, Bush can't have a 129, he'd mention it, because everyone said it was low he'd want to prove it wrong. Clinton was in mensa, with an IQ of the upper 140's to 150's. Mensa is a "club" for those with overly high IQ's, 145ish and up. Bush isn't near mensa, but he'd say he had a high IQ. Thought I should leave you with a quote, "There is no french word for entrepreneur."

P.S. I don't want to go through the time to add the french accent marks to the french word, that Bush said didn't exist.

selfAdjoint

Oct17-04, 08:38 PM

I just saw the story of Terman and his "smart kids" again. Terman was one of the early workers in IQ, and he collected longitudinal data on a sample of young people who all had IQs over 130. He often said there were two young men who just missed the cut by a couple of points who later won the Nobel Prize, while none of the people who were in the study did anything like that.

It turns out that the two who were passed over were Robert Shockley and Louis Alvarez. If Bush is not less smart than those two, he is smart enough. Bush is not really dumb, but he is monstrously misguided. It happens (look at Shockley in his later years!)

Tigers2B1

Oct22-04, 10:53 AM

Could it be that Kerry’s composite IQ is lower that Dubya’s? Hard to say since Kerry hasn't released his SAT scores - where the SAT-IQ correlation exists. THIS LINKED SITE shows other information which indicates that Bush, may in fact, have a higher IQ than Kerry -

http://www.vdare.com/sailer/kerry_iq_lower.htm

Side Bar To selfAdjoint - The Terman kids (aka The Termites) were kids who scoed in the top 0.5 percentile as I recall. In any event, those kids scored 140 and above on the IQ test used by Terman.

selfAdjoint

Oct22-04, 11:52 AM

Boy, Sailor really went through a lot of work to produce his "probably". I'm not going to worry about it. Kerry's history in the Senate supports the notion that he's smart enough. And of course I have never denied that Bush is smart enough, though I think he's been a disaster for the country.

Zantra

Oct22-04, 12:05 PM

[QUOTE=It doesn't matter if he has an IQ of 190- he still is a horrible public speaker. And the institution of the presidency requires more than just raw intelligence. It's all about image. If you're a genius and you portray the wrong image to the public and rest of the world, it doesn't matter how smart you are. It's all about perception.

Or rather, it's all about the De-ception. Bush enjoys being perceived as stupid. It will get him more votes than if he was perceived to be smart; at least this is the case with the average joe, american public. It is also protection for him against his enemies who underestimate him, making his job easier. Reagan is also one to understand this very well.

It may be different now, but when I was young, it wasn't cool to be smart, and most people who vote rermember those days. Young people in general are less likely to vote.

I think this was also part of Clinton's problem in never being fully accepted as a leader. Many people in the south deeply hate him, which interestingly is a demographic that is a bit behind in education. Clinton reportedly has an IQ of 137 (I wish I could remember the source). The 182 reported by the "fake" Lovenstein Institute is bogus.

zoidsoft

still in high school? The real world doesn't operate that way. It may be cool to hate the nerds in school, but in real life they are (usually) the people running american industry and government while the "cool kids" are all at the gas stations and factories. I've seen this trend in action. I want the leader of my country to be intelligent- if Bush is smart he hides it very well, and he certainly isn't using his intelligence to run the country.

pelastration

Oct22-04, 04:39 PM

if Bush is smart he hides it very well, and he certainly isn't using his intelligence to run the country.
Zantra, I like that. Maybe ... not the country ... but for sure his business. He generates billions for his friends on your taxes. Now that's smart ... or he had some "luck" (?), meaning meeting the wrong guys at the right moment. :biggrin:

Zantra

Oct22-04, 04:45 PM

Zantra, I like that. Maybe ... not the country ... but for sure his business. He generates billions for his friends on your taxes. Now that's smart ... or he had some "luck" (?), meaning meeting the wrong guys at the right moment. :biggrin:

YA I just rented farenheit 9/11.. interesting stuff about all that saudi business he gets.

Gokul43201

Oct23-04, 09:43 AM

I wonder if all the cocaine use is slowly catching up to him...

GCT

Oct24-04, 08:53 PM

I'm not too surprised, he has handled all of the pressures of the presidency quite well, which I'm sure that most of us won't be able last if given the chance.

Dayle Record

Oct28-04, 09:43 PM

IQ enhancement isn't quite like botox injections, but I am sure it can be done. In fact that sort of enhancement is much easier than silicon or botox, just a push of a button, a slip of false information.

Nukular zzzzzzzapppppp
Nukular zzzzzzzapppppp
Nuclear, oh thank you I feel much better now.

You sure this is how IQ enhancement works? Now, I already did the maze today. It's hard work. zzzzzzzappppp
ouch that smarts, huh huh huh getting smarts isn't as easy as it is made out to be. Ooooo my hair is starting to smoke.

Moonbear

Oct29-04, 10:59 PM

Not to pick on Bush or anything but doesn't IQ decline with age? and how many points a year?

It will decline with the sort of brain damage induced by chronic alcohol consumption. It's very likely he was a very smart person, I'm not so sure he is anymore. A friend of mine told me he heard an old clip of him giving a speech while running for governor of TX, and he was very well-spoken, no ahs and ums, stumbling over all his words, and failing to string sentences together. It seems he used to be able to speak in public and make some sense. So, is the loss of this ability because he is acting dumb to get votes from the average Joe, or have all those years of drinking finally caught up with him?

franznietzsche

Oct29-04, 11:05 PM

franznietzsche

Oct29-04, 11:13 PM

The people now think the real power is no more in politics. We used to think an alternative way was possible. I think the american responsability in establishing free market as the rule of the world today is not funny.

Socialist. Forgive our capitalism Comrade Humanino.

Moonbear

Oct29-04, 11:15 PM

still in high school? The real world doesn't operate that way. It may be cool to hate the nerds in school, but in real life they are (usually) the people running american industry and government while the "cool kids" are all at the gas stations and factories. I've seen this trend in action. I want the leader of my country to be intelligent- if Bush is smart he hides it very well, and he certainly isn't using his intelligence to run the country.

True, but the "cool kids" working at gas stations and factories are more numerous than industry leaders, and they vote for the likeable guy, the one just like them, not the one who uses big words they can't understand. Bush speaks in very simple sentences, which are easy for the average Joe to understand. Kerry is getting better at it, but didn't start out very good at it. He would go into long, technical explanations of things that got people lost and confused, so they assumed he was just avoiding the question rather than understanding the depth of the answer being given.

I should also add that something else Bush does when speaking that helps with the average Joe voter is he talks in absolutes. Things are all black or white, no shades of gray. Kerry talks about different aspects of an issue, and speaks as he would to Congress, debating the pros and cons, addressing that there isn't always a perfect answer, but there are some better answers. This is lost on the average Joe. They see it as uncertainty. They think a leader must have all the answers all the time.

hitssquad

Oct30-04, 07:44 PM

when I was young, it wasn't cool to be smart....

I think this was also part of Clinton's problem in never being fully accepted as a leader.... Clinton reportedly has an IQ of 137.This (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/e-l/message/12449) message on The Eugenics List reports an SAT score of 1032 for Clinton. That maps to an Otis Gamma (SD15) IQ of 120, according to Rodrigo de la Jara's Pre-1974 SAT to IQ Conversion Table (http://members.shaw.ca/delajara/Pre1974SAT.html).

cragwolf

Oct31-04, 05:40 AM

IQ almost entirely irrelevant. Please don't confuse correlation with equivalence. For example, my IQ is much higher than average, but that simply reflects my better-than-average ability to deal with numbers and patterns. Otherwise, I would say that overall I have a below-average intelligence; certainly much lower than that of Bush or Clinton. You would surely require a high intelligence to gain and hold almost any position of power, especially the most powerful position in the world, no matter how privileged a life you have led. And so what if he's not a gifted debater or is lacking in off-the-cuff, spur-of-the-moment speaking skills? Critics of Bush are shooting themselves in the foot by attacking his intelligence and his speaking skills. This is the same sort of thoughtlessness that equates tallness or good looks or loudness with intelligence.

Attack his f**ked-up policies instead.