View Full Version : How much money is sufficient for you?
To live a luxurious life, how much do you need to make each month?
10,000 USD?
In malaysia, a family with 2 children like mine, need 3000USD (12,000 ringgit) to live without worry! :rolleyes:
theCandyman
Oct13-04, 11:05 PM
I don't know, just enough to keep my wife (when/if i get married), myself and our children happy. But if I don't have a family, I could live easily with $36000 (~$3000 each month, around what you said would be easy living) annual income. Maybe even less, I don't exactly treat myself very much.
Of course, I am takng about happy/content not exactly 'luxurious'. There probably is a limit to how much money you can get before it stops life from being luxurious, consider doing taxes for Bill Gates...
For me, with a teenage daughter, in the midwest, $10,000 a month average net take home pay just barely cuts it. Ok, she's spoiled. She's going to Switzerland in January. She has a much grander lifestyle than I do. :rolleyes:
But yesterday I told her I was cold (the weather is getting chilly) and she bought me a bunch of incredible warm clothes (from her own earnings) so I would be comfortable. :approve:
Moonbear
Oct14-04, 01:59 AM
Well, I managed to survive as a grad student on $14,000/year, but I ate a lot of Ramen noodles and lived in a 3 room apartment over a bar because that's all I could afford. I think, when I was earning a little over $20,000/year (before taxes) as a post-doc (not that long ago), that was at the level of sufficient. I had nothing extra, but was able to pay the rent, maintenance on my 10 yr old car to get back and forth to the lab, ate real food, not Ramen noodles, but still no steaks or snack food very often. And I had enough to once in a while go out to dinner. I'd have been more comfortable if I didn't have to spend so much on airfares and gifts for all the family weddings I had to attend in that timeframe.
Evo, $USD10,000 a month, that is nearly my one year salary, you are so rich !!!!
Evo, $USD10,000 a month, that is nearly my one year salary, you are so rich !!!!No, I have a lot of expenses. My daughter can go through money faster than I can make it.
russ_watters
Oct14-04, 09:48 AM
Evo, $USD10,000 a month, that is nearly my one year salary, you are so rich !!!! You have to remember that cost of living is different everywhere. My last apartment (suburban philly) cost about $1000 a month plus utilities. My sister's smaller apartment in Boston cost $3000. A buddy's bigger apartment in southern Mississippi cost $600.
For me at just under 30 and expecting to have a 2-3 bedroom condo in a year, a half decent car, and enough money to play with it a little takes about $3,000 a month (after taxes) - $2,500 without much play-money.
The problem with setting a "comfort level" though is your spending will virtually always inflate to equal (or exceed) your income.
Gokul43201
Oct14-04, 09:52 AM
Well, I managed to survive as a grad student on $14,000/year, but I ate a lot of Ramen noodles and lived in a 3 room apartment over a bar because that's all I could afford. I think, when I was earning a little over $20,000/year (before taxes) as a post-doc (not that long ago), that was at the level of sufficient. I had nothing extra, but was able to pay the rent, maintenance on my 10 yr old car to get back and forth to the lab, ate real food, not Ramen noodles, but still no steaks or snack food very often. And I had enough to once in a while go out to dinner. I'd have been more comfortable if I didn't have to spend so much on airfares and gifts for all the family weddings I had to attend in that timeframe.
I eat Ramen noodles. :biggrin:
that's a loaded question, because what's a fortune in one place, is a pittance in another, as illustrated by some of the responses. I can get away with $500/month rent in the midwest and have a decent sized 1 bedroom 700 will get 2 bdrms. But try that on the west or east coast and the price litterally doubles.
I have to agree with Russ- you will spend what you make. So if you make 1k/month, your "comfort level" adjusts to that. If it's 10k/month, likewise. Short of being a millionaire, you will learn to live within whatever means you have, and adjust accordingly.
I seem to be doing quite well at $5.70 an hour with about 20 - 30 hours a week. I guess it helps that I like to save my money. However, I've been known to be a bit of a spendthrift every now and then. Of course, that cash flow won't be like that for long. Just until I graduate.
i had an easier time living on a take home pay of $2000 with a family of four then I do now with just two people and that number significanly higher. your expenses go up when you make more.
No, I have a lot of expenses. My daughter can go through money faster than I can make it.
:uhh:
Uh, no offense Evo (I can't tell if you're joking or not) but no teenaged girl needs to be spending thousands of dollars a month, no matter where you live.
- Warren
JasonRox
Oct14-04, 03:03 PM
Expenses go up when you make more, but are those expenses necessary.
I am making 8.50/hour and working 24 hours a week. If I had to live on my own, I would say it is still possible because I would choose not to drive to school. Insurance is very high, so it is almost equivalent to rent. (I just spent $1500 to fix it.)
Personally, I think you can live with 8.50/hour, but you'll have worries. If I made $10/hour, that would perfect.
Note: I read that the average debt in the US is $450 000 per family of 4. This includes the mortgage. Is this a sign that everyone wants to live the dream they can't afford? There must be a lot of people in need for a reality check.
120 thousand dollars a year (USD) ?! That is higher than some doctors get paid in Canada.
What is your profession Evo, if you do not mind sharing.
Moonbear
Oct14-04, 04:46 PM
Yes, it's true, the amount you need depends on where you live. When I lived in MI, if you lived near campus, you could get an efficiency apartment for about $600/mo, and a one bedroom for $800/mo. Being willing to commute a half hour to another town meant I could get a two bedroom apartment with my own washer and dryer and a swimming pool in the complex for about $850/mo (the washer and dryer alone made it worth the commute for me...I hated laundromats or shared washers in basements). Where I live now, you can get a fairly large 1 br apartment for about $450/mo, and I have a comfortably sized 4 br house (more bedrooms than I need, but it sure helps when I have out-of-town company) with a mortgage payment only slightly over $1000/mo. I think I live quite comfortably, but yes, my expenses have grown with my salary. I used to manage just fine on $20,000/yr, and now I earn substantially more and still find I have little left at the end of the month. And I still live more frugally than a lot of people I know. It's also why I'm not overly sympathetic to people who complain they can't pay their bills, etc. I've lived at that poverty line and you just have to be frugal. I wasn't miserable by any means, but I also didn't include ice cream and potato chips on my grocery list.
Moonbear
Oct14-04, 04:57 PM
Note: I read that the average debt in the US is $450 000 per family of 4. This includes the mortgage. Is this a sign that everyone wants to live the dream they can't afford? There must be a lot of people in need for a reality check.
Yes, there are. I used to wonder how my neighbors, who I know earn less than I do, can always be driving around a new SUV every few years, or have that huge TV, etc. Then it occurred to me, they are in hock up to their eyeballs. It's all on credit, and they'll never get out of debt. I have cousins who spent $20,000 on their wedding receptions and then had to live in a tiny apartment for years because they couldn't afford to put a downpayment on a house. You're just as married if you have a potluck dinner in a barn for the reception as you are if you have a formal sit-down dinner in a fancy banquet hall on the beach, so I thought they were crazy to spend so far beyond their means on that.
:uhh:
Uh, no offense Evo (I can't tell if you're joking or not) but no teenaged girl needs to be spending thousands of dollars a month, no matter where you live.
- WarrenWhen you count her car, gas, car insurance, clothing, cosmetics, food (she eats out all of the time), that's my fault, I work long hours, so food for her runs $700-900 a month, movies, books, CD's, DVD's. It's amazing how quickly it adds up each month. :cry:
She only gets money from me as long as she works. She is required to hand her paychecks over to me, but she only makes a couple of hundred a month.
When you count her car, gas, car insurance, clothing, cosmetics, food (she eats out all of the time), that's my fault, I work long hours, so food for her runs $700-900 a month, movies, books, CD's, DVD's. It's amazing how quickly it adds up each month. :cry:
She only gets money from me as long as she works. She is required to hand her paychecks over to me, but she only makes a couple of hundred a month.
Jesus H>..ok I won't say it.. but you know.. how do you spend 1k/month on food every month for 1 young girl? I could have steak and lobster every single day for half that...
I have a daughter myself, but I'd venture to say that your daughter lives better than most working adults.
Yes, there are. I used to wonder how my neighbors, who I know earn less than I do, can always be driving around a new SUV every few years, or have that huge TV, etc. Then it occurred to me, they are in hock up to their eyeballs. It's all on credit, and they'll never get out of debt. I have cousins who spent $20,000 on their wedding receptions and then had to live in a tiny apartment for years because they couldn't afford to put a downpayment on a house. You're just as married if you have a potluck dinner in a barn for the reception as you are if you have a formal sit-down dinner in a fancy banquet hall on the beach, so I thought they were crazy to spend so far beyond their means on that.
It's like that commercial.. "I've got a new car, a new house, a new pool.... I'm in debt up to my eyeballs- someone help me.. please.."
The ugly american truth is that most of what we have is borrowed. Play today pay tomorrow is the credo..
When people say that they "used to make less and thought it was a lot, but now they make a lot more, but they're still broke-whose fault is it? You have less because you spend more. You spend more because you CAN. just because you get a raise you don't HAVE to drive a new car. Just becausae you make 3 times as much as you used to, doesn't mean you HAVE to spend 3 times as much. It's all a status thing. Personally I'd rather have savings then status. So if you're making a decent living and you're broke- don't complain, make a budget and stick to it :tongue2:
Jesus H>..ok I won't say it.. but you know.. how do you spend 1k/month on food every month for 1 young girl? I could have steak and lobster every single day for half that...
I have a daughter myself, but I'd venture to say that your daughter lives better than most working adults.
I have to agree. $30 a day on food? Give me a break!
I take home about $4k a month after taxes, and I pay for an expensive apartment, a very nice car, all my food, gases, clothing, and even expensive hobbies with no problem at all. I also support my girlfriend to some extent.
- Warren
For a fresh graduate, let say he/she work as an engineer, how much can he/she earn per month?
Saint,
It depends very strongly on where you work geographically, and also strongly on which engineering discipline you're doing. I would say about $50k per year for an electrical engineer in a modest city is not unusual.
- Warren
I have to agree. $30 a day on food? Give me a break!
I take home about $4k a month after taxes, and I pay for an expensive apartment, a very nice car, all my food, gases, clothing, and even expensive hobbies with no problem at all. I also support my girlfriend to some extent.
- WarrenIt's very easy to spend that much on food eating out. Even if she only eats 2 meals a day, staying under $30 a day is difficult. Let's say she eats lunch at Hardee's, a hamburger, fries and drink are going to cost around $6. For dinner, let's say she eats at Olive Garden (cheap), $16.95 for the entree, $1.25 for an iced tea, she splits an appetizer with a friend ($3.50 for her half), that's $21.70 BEFORE tax and tip. Minimum tip (15%) is $3.26, but like me, she always leaves a minimum $5 tip for dinner, so before tax, and no dessert, that's $26.70 just for dinner. Plus lunch that's $32.70. Of course this doesn't include a few sodas during the day, at $1.25 for a small drink at a fast food place that can easily add another $5, if she wants a snack during the day, that's even more.
So, realistically, eating only two meals a day at $37.70 a day x 30 days a month, her food costs are $1,131.00.
Where the heck do you people eat??
Gokul43201
Oct14-04, 07:32 PM
Where the heck do you people eat??
I haven't eaten a 25 buck dinner in months now. :cry: :cry:
I haven't eaten a 25 buck dinner in months now. :cry: :cry:Aww Gokul, I will take you out for dinner. :smile:
Honestly, I work long hours, I often have to attend cocktail parties after work (for work), have to go out of town, etc...
One area I will not cut back on is nutritious meals for my daughter. If it costs me a bit more, I really do not care.
Moonbear
Oct14-04, 07:57 PM
It's very easy to spend that much on food eating out. Even if she only eats 2 meals a day, staying under $30 a day is difficult. Let's say she eats lunch at Hardee's, a hamburger, fries and drink are going to cost around $6. For dinner, let's say she eats at Olive Garden (cheap), $16.95 for the entree, $1.25 for an iced tea, she splits an appetizer with a friend ($3.50 for her half), that's $21.70 BEFORE tax and tip. Minimum tip (15%) is $3.26, but like me, she always leaves a minimum $5 tip for dinner, so before tax, and no dessert, that's $26.70 just for dinner. Plus lunch that's $32.70. Of course this doesn't include a few sodas during the day, at $1.25 for a small drink at a fast food place that can easily add another $5, if she wants a snack during the day, that's even more.
So, realistically, eating only two meals a day at $37.70 a day x 30 days a month, her food costs are $1,131.00.
Where the heck do you people eat??
:surprised That's a lot of eating out! Teach that young woman how to cook! It's a LOT more expensive to eat out than to cook for yourself. And not nearly as healthy. I used to eat out a lot when I first moved here (suddenly being able to afford it made it very tempting, and it was a good way to get to know people and places around here to meet for dinner at various restaurants)...I gained 20 lbs! It took a lot of effort to lose it again. :grumpy:
Yes, when you eat out, $30 a day just isn't enough. Our university seems to think a $30 per diem is sufficient to cover meals while traveling. Usually dinner alone costs that much, especially when traveling to large cities, where most of the conferences I attend are held.
JasonRox
Oct14-04, 08:07 PM
Aww Gokul, I will take you out for dinner. :smile:
Honestly, I work long hours, I often have to attend cocktail parties after work (for work), have to go out of town, etc...
One area I will not cut back on is nutritious meals for my daughter. If it costs me a bit more, I really do not care.
Nutritious food is cheap and not more expensive. Go to the grocery store and find out for yourself.
Where do people get this? I hear it every single day. Eating nutritiously and going out on the other hand is a different story.
In my opinion, you are doing your daughter more harm than good. If you think about it, statistics show that everyone spoils themselves (from above post). It is also a hard habit to get over as well, and adding to the problem isn't going to help. Your daughter might (I said MIGHT and NOT will) find herself taking from the banking in the future, and in my eyes, this is not a good thing.
I'm 21 and I still wear clothes that I wore when I was in Grade 10, which is when I was 15-16. This is not because I'm poor, but merely because I choose certain things to treat myself. I don't choose everything like most people do because, like most people, I can't afford everything. I have a season pass at a ski resort this winter, and that is a treat. To spend a few weekends there would be great! I'll sacrifice clothes for this, but some others won't. For some of the others who won't sacrifice clothes for little trips, etc..., they also get the clothes. Hmm... I know they can't afford it.
In the end, if you can manage to buy her everything without the bank, that's great, but the habit she's getting into isn't.
Note: This is pure opinion, and you may object to anything.
Nutritious food is cheap and not more expensive. Go to the grocery store and find out for yourself.I totally agree with everything you say.
Let me give you some background.
I have two daughters. My older daughter is now trying to learn to cook from me. My younger daughter (still at home) hates to cook. I LOVE cooking. Neither of my girls ever had any interest in it.
I spoiled them when they were growing up by cooking great meals for them. My younger daughter especially loves the fresh vegetables I cooked. I always had my own vegetable garden in the summer.
Since my divorce, I no longer have the luxury of staying home to cook. Sure, I could quit my job, but that isn't going to happen.
I don't mind paying for my daughter to go to a decent restaurant in order to get fresh vegetables, seafood, etc... that's not thrown into a pit of grease and fried.
She would much rather eat my home cooking. Both of my daughters complain all the time that I no longer have time for this. My older daughter is trying to learn now, she never wanted to learn before. My younger daughter just hasn't gotten the hang of it.
It's not an ideal situation, but then life rarely is.
Personally, I skimp on my food, I hate shopping, I RARELY buy myself anything. When I got married I told my parents instead of wasting money on a wedding, I would prefer the money to help buy a house and furnish it. My husband's parents were furious that I wanted to "rob" them of a party. Whatever.
:surprised That's a lot of eating out! Teach that young woman how to cook! I've tried. :cry:
She has many talents, cooking isn't one of them. :surprised
I hope whoever she marries can cook. :biggrin:
This reminds of a story a woman I used to work with told me. (She didn't even know how to turn her stove on). :uhh:
She was watching TV with her two young sons when a commercial came on showing a woman cooking chocolate chip cookies. Her son looked up at her and said "you're not that type of woman are you mommy?
Moonbear
Oct14-04, 08:42 PM
She would much rather eat my home cooking. Both of my daughters complain all the time that I no longer have time for this. My older daughter is trying to learn now, she never wanted to learn before. My younger daughter just hasn't gotten the hang of it.
Well, maybe your older daughter will really pick up on cooking and make meals for the both of them! That would be the ideal situation. As for your younger daughter, it's okay to not like cooking, as long as she knows how to cook enough to survive when she's on her own someday.
Personally, I skimp on my food, I hate shopping, I RARELY buy myself anything. When I got married I told my parents instead of wasting money on a wedding, I would prefer the money to help buy a house and furnish it. My husband's parents were furious that I wanted to "rob" them of a party. Whatever.
I like your attitude about that! I'm still looking for a guy who will let me do the whole wedding registry at Home Depot. You wouldn't think this would be so difficult. :tongue2:
Gokul43201
Oct14-04, 08:48 PM
What kinda guy would refuse that ! :eek:
As for your younger daughter, it's okay to not like cooking, as long as she knows how to cook enough to survive when she's on her own someday.I think she might manage to throw a tv dinner into the microwave, except she hates frozen food. I guess if it was a life or death situation...
I like your attitude about that! I'm still looking for a guy who will let me do the whole wedding registry at Home Depot. You wouldn't think this would be so difficult. :tongue2:Moonbear, we are incredibly alike!!!!! But I guess that's because we're identical twins. :approve:
Jesus H>..ok I won't say it.. but you know.. how do you spend 1k/month on food every month for 1 young girl? I could have steak and lobster every single day for half that...
I have a daughter myself, but I'd venture to say that your daughter lives better than most working adults.
i spend less the $500 on food for a my husband and i, and half the time when my two kids are with me. we go out for dinner once, maybe twice a month, and everything else is made at home. i used to be able to spend $300 a month on food for four, but not anymore.
I guess I should also mention that my younger daughter volunteers at a local nursing home, it really saddens her that they are so alone and that any little thing she does makes them so happy.
She also volunteers in a high school peer program where she helps kids that have been arrested and/or do drugs. She wants to be a psychologist when she grows up so she can help people. She is very good at this.
She is also the type to give someone the "shirt off her back"...literally, another reason her clothing costs are high. :bugeye:
She doesn't do drugs, she doesn't drink, she isn't wild and crazy, she calls me constantly to let me know where she is so I don't worry, she runs errands for me, she buys me little gifts where ever she goes to let me know she's thinking of me. Her school went to the zoo last week and she knows I love hippos, she bought me a little stuffed hippo. She always does things like this. Her friends adore her because she is so selfless and caring.
Unfortunately she loves to shop. :cry: :cry: :cry:
I think she might manage to throw a tv dinner into the microwave, except she hates frozen food. I guess if it was a life or death situation...
That sounds like me before I moved out on my own and got my first apartment. The rent wound up being a little hard to meet, but, luckily, a friend of mine decided he wanted to move away from home, too. The first day, I made spaghetti and he wasn't very hungry. But, then, about an hour later, he ordered a large pizza and finished it off single-handed. The second day, he moved back home to his family.
For awhile, I tried renting basement rooms from families so maybe I could eat with them. Usually, they got pretty tired of me and decided they didn't need the extra money as bad as they thought they did. I hated that. It usually took a couple of weeks for my body to adjust to my own cooking.
Hitting fast foods didn't work out very well, either. Finally, after being diagnosed as suffering from malnutrition, I gave in and learned how to cook. In fact, by time I married, I was a better cook than my wife.
So, there's hope for her, yet. :biggrin:
Life in the US is REALLY expensive! My family of 5 spends around US$400 on food a month, so that equates to around US$80 per person - a real small portion of our monthly expenses. We eat out around twice a week, which costs the whole family around US$ 15 a meal (not per person!).
Coming from a very well-to-do family (on par with American standards), I cost my parents just US$180 a month:
1. I don't pay for school as schooling is subsidized by the government. US$0.
2. I wear second-hand clothes from my mother (we share same cloth sizes, and she's incredibly up-to-date with fashion :smile:). US$0.
3. I don't own a mobile phone because no one calls me so I don't have any phone expenses. US$0.
4. Food. US$80
5. DVDs. US$15
6. Unfortunately, there aren't any good libraries where I live, so I spend quite A LOT on books. US$50
7. I share the internet with my father, and my young brother uses it for games. However, the internet connection is very expensive and costs US$40 a month. My share of the expense: US$25.
8. Household electricity and gas, and also car expenses costs US$40 a month. My share of the expense: US$10.
Of course, I'm only 15 so the expenses are going to grow as I get older. By the time I'm in university, I'll be costing my parents US$30,000 annually, unless I manage to qualify for financial assistance. I hope to be working part-time by then.
I've tried. :cry:
She has many talents, cooking isn't one of them. :surprised
I'd be glad to try, Evo. :biggrin:
I cannot fathom spending $37US/day on food! I spend maximum $70 per week (Canadian) on food, and I think I eat quite well. I'll eat out for lunch 2 or 3 times a week, the rest is home made (by me). This isn't prime rib or lobster, but it's not ramen noodles either. Cost of living I guess.
As a grad student, I've been getting by on $24k-$30k per year (depending on teaching load) and managing to save a good chunk each year. I don't spend much money, but I don't really feel deprived of anything either. I'm used to living cheaply I guess.
When I was in my teens, I was treated for malnutrition because I would get too busy to eat. I wore a size 0. Which is smaller than today's size 0 (my older daughter wears a size 0 and she can't squeeze into an old pair of shorts I wore after she was born). Muwahahaha. :devil:
I can live (and sometimes do) on a can or two a day of 50% fat free vienna sausage from Walmart (38 cents a can) and my coffee, of course. My daily food expenses - $1.50 at my worst (cheapest).
Recon, that's incredible, a meal for your family for $15? How many in your family?
Chrono, I might be calling you. I'm hoping once she goes away to college she realizes she needs to either start liking frozen and canned food or learn to cook. That's when her sister suddenly wanted to learn to cook. :rolleyes:
Chrono, I might be calling you. I'm hoping once she goes away to college she realizes she needs to either start liking frozen and canned food or learn to cook. That's when her sister suddenly wanted to learn to cook. :rolleyes:
I'll be waiting. I'll teach her all I know. Plus, I work at a grocery store, so I can give her the secrets to that, also.
Life in the US is REALLY expensive! My family of 5 spends around US$400 on food a month, so that equates to around US$80 per person - a real small portion of our monthly expenses. We eat out around twice a week, which costs the whole family around US$ 15 a meal (not per person!).
Coming from a very well-to-do family (on par with American standards), I cost my parents just US$180 a month:
1. I don't pay for school as schooling is subsidized by the government. US$0.
2. I wear second-hand clothes from my mother (we share same cloth sizes, and she's incredibly up-to-date with fashion :smile:). US$0.
3. I don't own a mobile phone because no one calls me so I don't have any phone expenses. US$0.
4. Food. US$80
5. DVDs. US$15
6. Unfortunately, there aren't any good libraries where I live, so I spend quite A LOT on books. US$50
7. I share the internet with my father, and my young brother uses it for games. However, the internet connection is very expensive and costs US$40 a month. My share of the expense: US$25.
8. Household electricity and gas, and also car expenses costs US$40 a month. My share of the expense: US$10.
Of course, I'm only 15 so the expenses are going to grow as I get older. By the time I'm in university, I'll be costing my parents US$30,000 annually, unless I manage to qualify for financial assistance. I hope to be working part-time by then.
Now THAT sounds more on par with a typical teenager.. Evo, evo, evo- teaching your daughter to cook will not only teach her a valuable skill that will encourage her to leave the nest by the time she's 35, it will be a BONDING experience. I make a decent living myself-not as much as you, but it's still decent, and was REALLY good when I was single and eating out every day- I never cooked- and I still didn't spend that much money on food. Either she's spending the majority of the money on shopping, and telling you it's for food, or you're setting yourself up to break the bank when big occassions hit. A child needs to eat healthy food, but the average teenager doesn't eat out every night.. just an FYI... But you know, call it advice, not lecture..
and on another note, what DOES a teen need with a cell phone? I don't think ANY teen is popular enough to deserve a cell. here's a roll of quarters, call anytime- better yet, take a phone card....
ok I'm crotchety :tongue2:
When I was in my teens, I was treated for malnutrition because I would get too busy to eat. I wore a size 0. Which is smaller than today's size 0 (my older daughter wears a size 0 and she can't squeeze into an old pair of shorts I wore after she was born). Muwahahaha. :devil:
I can live (and sometimes do) on a can or two a day of 50% fat free vienna sausage from Walmart (38 cents a can) and my coffee, of course. My daily food expenses - $1.50 at my worst (cheapest).
Recon, that's incredible, a meal for your family for $15? How many in your family?
Chrono, I might be calling you. I'm hoping once she goes away to college she realizes she needs to either start liking frozen and canned food or learn to cook. That's when her sister suddenly wanted to learn to cook. :rolleyes:
not to play shrink,but is it possible that your malnutrion problems in your youth might be why you're just a tad overzealous when it comes to your daughter's eating habits?
or maybe you should just support me.. I need to eat better, and I would like 1k/month to eat on.. I accept paypal visa or mastercard feel free to the zantra steak and lobster food bank fund :biggrin:
and on another note, what DOES a teen need with a cell phone? I don't think ANY teen is popular enough to deserve a cell. here's a roll of quarters, call anytime- better yet, take a phone card....
Only reason I have mine is because my parent's are too paranoid about me and want to make sure that I can reach them if I need to, which translates that they can reach me whever they want.
Colorado Springs is almost a low cost area. Housing costs are high, but you can still find a good price if you look hard enough. The rest of the costs are pretty low.
We used to spend around $600 a month on groceries for a family of 6. Even with ordering pizza or eating out once in a while, we spent less than $800 on food. Of course, we still spend as much, even though my two oldest daughters have moved out. We just buy the expensive ketchup, now (Dijon ketchup .... mmmmm! :wink: ) We still shop at the commissary on the military base for most of our groceries, but, living in a town with five military installations, the commissaries drive prices down even in the commercial grocery stores.
We spend about $1000 a month for a four bedroom house. It's a little older, but I like that - it actually has trees. It has seven ponderosa pine trees in the front yard and a few miscellaneous trees in the back (unfortunately, all but one is going to die - we've had some sort of tree disease in the city and two of mine are already showing signs). Plus, at least in the winter when the leaves fall off the trees, we have a good view of Pikes Peak. Of course, the down side is that every tree in my yard has found the main drain and the Rotor-rooter visits are approaching two per year (in fact, while the robin is the first sign of spring in most places, here, the Rotor-rooter trucks parked up and down the street are the first sign of winter).
Utilities combined run anywhere from $120 a month up to $200 a month, depending on the weather. This summer was pretty good. I had the sprinkler system turned off for almost two months straight (water is usually a killer, but, now, I think gas will outstrip it). Enough firewood to last from fall to spring costs around $200 (it's cheaper if you buy next year's supply this year and let it finish drying at your house).
Cheap entertainment. Most of the time, the only cost is gas. Sometimes you have to add $4 to $25 dollars for park and camping fees. Maybe an occasional rafting trip at around $50 a person (well worth it around the beginning of June when the river flows peak) or a kayak weekend for around $250 or a train ride back down from the top of Pikes Peak at about $25 a person (only wimps ride the train up - real mountain people hike up).
The rest is all junk. Around $100 for cable TV and internet access. Nearly $600 for car expenses. Around $120 for phone service (with cell with unlimited long distance). Clothes, who knows, it varies. My wife's seemingly endless vacation around $1500 a month, plus plane tickets (Darn, I just remembered, for her trip home I meant to say "Damn the cost! I'm picking the flight with most layovers!" - especially a layover in Chicago, the black hole of air travel. I'm going to have to go back and see exactly how much that change fee is).
Plus, we have to buy a truck to haul out the junk we've bought for my grandson so we'll have room to put the new stuff we're sure to buy him. Geez, between us and my son-in-law's mom and uncle, that kid is spoiled much more than Evo's daughter. :biggrin:
Only reason I have mine is because my parent's are too paranoid about me and want to make sure that I can reach them if I need to, which translates that they can reach me whever they want.
well.. ok I could see that.. especially if it's a young lady out for the night...
For dinner, let's say she eats at Olive Garden (cheap), $16.95 for the entree
Umm.. Evo. This is not cheap. This is very expensive food, even for restaurant fare. I can easily go to a Thai restaurant and have a full, satisfying meal for under $10, tip included. I would certainly not eat a $17 entree every day! That's absurd. You can make just about any pasta dish for less than $4 a plate.
- Warren
One area I will not cut back on is nutritious meals for my daughter. If it costs me a bit more, I really do not care.
An Olive Garden entree with appetizer, soda, and dessert is not nutritious. Expensive, yes. Enjoyable, maybe. Nutritious, no.
- Warren
Either she's spending the majority of the money on shopping, and telling you it's for food, or you're setting yourself up to break the bank when big occassions hit. A child needs to eat healthy food, but the average teenager doesn't eat out every night.. just an FYI... But you know, call it advice, not lecture..She has a debit card so I can track her expenses, yes, it's on food. Or perhaps..she's buying food and selling it on the street to get money for clothes!!! :biggrin:
She has to eat out every night because I get home too late to cook. I'm a BAD mother. :cry:
Also, I insist she has a cell phone so that I can reach her whenever I want and she has a way to call for help if her car ever breaks down.
Unfortunately she loves to shop. :cry: :cry: :cry:
Well, you're the one handing her the cash, and you're making crying faces? Put the girl on an allowance (and no, $3000 a month is NOT an allowance) and teach her to act responsibly before it's too late. Despite your rationalizations, she is, in all honesty, spending money extremly unwisely. Most people do more damage to their financial stability in the first couple of years out of college than at any other time, and she's going to graduate and expect to have $3000 a month of disposable income, and it's not going to happen.
- Warren
(my older daughter wears a size 0 and she can't squeeze into an old pair of shorts I wore after she was born).
Then I really have to wonder how much of that $17 Olive Garden entree she's actually eating. Is it possible she's fitting the typical American standard of wasting 80% of every meal?
I can live (and sometimes do) on a can or two a day of 50% fat free vienna sausage from Walmart (38 cents a can) and my coffee, of course. My daily food expenses - $1.50 at my worst (cheapest).
You don't need to argue such extremes. There's a whole spectrum bewteen $1.50 crap and $37 luxury. Many decent restaurants offer excellent, complete meals for under $10.
- Warren
Umm.. Evo. This is not cheap. This is very expensive food, even for restaurant fare. I can easily go to a Thai restaurant and have a full, satisfying meal for under $10, tip included. I would certainly not eat a $17 entree every day! That's absurd. You can make just about any pasta dish for less than $4 a plate.
- WarrenFor some reason, restaurant food here is not cheap.
You can make just about any pasta dish for less than $4 a plate.But you can't buy it at a restaurant here for that price. An entree at Applebees, TGI Fridays, Olive Garden, etc... which I consider sit down fast food will start around $16. You "can" make healthy choices. Obviously I wish I could be home to make her food, or that she was willing to cook, but that's not going to happen. Since I make enough money that it isn't an issue, it's not an issue.
Now if she wanted to eat at restaurants where a meal for one person was $75 or more, I'd have an issue.
Then I really have to wonder how much of that $17 Olive Garden entree she's actually eating. Is it possible she's fitting the typical American standard of wasting 80% of every meal?No, she eats well, she's active.
There's a whole spectrum bewteen $1.50 crap and $37 luxury.$37 dollars a day is pretty minimal. My per diem from my company is $35 a day because it is only supposed to cover two meals a day, I'm expected to buy lunch out of my own pocket, and everyone complains that it is simply not enough.
Many decent restaurants offer excellent, complete meals for under $10.I've lived here over 13 years and I have yet to find a single one. A lot of things are cheaper here, dining out is not one of them.
An entree at Applebees, TGI Fridays, Olive Garden, etc... which I consider sit down fast food will start around $16.
Those are not cheap restaurants either. I'll describe some of my eating habits.
There's a Thai restaurant down the street that offers an excellent and large serving of panang curry chicken for $8.00. Throw in a Thai iced tea, tax, and tip, and I'm done (and full) for under $11.
There's a hot sandwich shop called Pluto's nearby which offers a fresh carved turkey or steak sandwich for $5.50. Throw in a side of mashed potatoes and some grilled asparagus and I'm also done (and full) for under $11.
There's another Asian restaurant called Yan Can (named after the TV show, of course) which offers pretty decent (though not particularly healthy) food, $9.15 for a huge plate and a soda.
I can eat a hot Subway sandwich for $8 a meal.
The truth is that an average Olive Garden meal has enough calories for an entire day. There's no point in paying for that kind of entree, which you can't possibly eat in one sitting. Find restaurants which offer reasonable sized portions for reasonable prices. Throw in some fresh fruit throughout the day for a snack. Skip silly expenses like $1.50 sodas from fast-food chains.
I routinely go days without spending more than $10-$15 on food.
- Warren
Another tip: skip stupid expenses like $8 appetizers, $8 desserts, and $2.50 soft drinks. Many restaurants make the most money of the "incidental" expenses. Ice cream costs $4 for a half gallon in a grocery store. Eat it when you get home.
- Warren
The truth is that an average Olive Garden meal has enough calories for an entire day.Or two.
One of the only Thai food restaurants here is one of the most expensive.
She has significantly cut back on her spending. Her father is a compulsive spender. I am the exact opposite, rarely spending money unless it is a necessity.
I've had a lot of talks with her and she really is making an effort to control her spending. I'm proud of how much she has cut back.
Remember, spending is relative. If it is normal in your family to buy a $600 pair of shoes, a $400 shirt, or a $1,600 suit, don't assume what constitutes excessive spending. This is what she sees from her father. He flys to New York and shops at Barney's. For her, this is normal.
Gokul43201
Oct14-04, 11:36 PM
Okay, since we're talking food, let me chime in too.
My typical lunch is a $6 meal at Charley's (cheese-steak place) or Chipotle (Mexican) or one of the Chinese restaurants around or a pizza place. Occasionally, I'll have a $10 meal at the really nice cafeteria in the on-campus Art Gallery.
Dinner may be as high as $15, if I eat at a nice Thai, Meditteranean or Indian restaurant. This happens only occassionally during the week. Mostly dinner is similar to lunch, or I just eat at home.
I've never spent anywhere near $25 on a meal that I didn't box and take home and subsist on for the rest of the week...okay, that's not entirely accurate. :biggrin:
I've lived here over 13 years and I have yet to find a single one.
Not to be rude, but I frankly don't believe you. You're telling me you don't have any Thai restaurants or sandwich shops in your state?
- Warren
Ice cream costs $4 for a half gallon in a grocery store. Eat it when you get home.
It can get cheaper than that, Warren. When it's on sale it may be as low as $2.50 for half a gallon, and that's when it's buy one, get one free. At least that's how it is here in South Carolina.
I agree with you about the "incidental" expenses. I went to a restaurant in Myrtle Beach called "Drunken Jack's" and while we waited 90 minutes for a table they had a bar area and my parents and brother racked up a $50 bill for drinks alone.
Or two.
You just told me that she eats all of her entree. Now you're agreeing with my statement that no one can eat all of an entree?
For her, this is normal.
You're the one making the crying faces.
Perhaps it's all about priorities. I'd rather eat more sensibly and have extra money for diving trips, flight lessons, and new telescope gear.
- Warren
Not to be rude, but I frankly don't believe you. You're telling me you don't have any Thai restaurants or sandwich shops in your state?
- WarrenI said there is a Thai restaurant, it's expensive. It's a novelty here. This is a cow town!
Gokul43201
Oct14-04, 11:42 PM
I cannot fathom spending $37US/day on food! I spend maximum $70 per week (Canadian) on food, and I think I eat quite well. I'll eat out for lunch 2 or 3 times a week, the rest is home made (by me). This isn't prime rib or lobster, but it's not ramen noodles either. Cost of living I guess.
As a grad student, I've been getting by on $24k-$30k per year (depending on teaching load) and managing to save a good chunk each year. I don't spend much money, but I don't really feel deprived of anything either. I'm used to living cheaply I guess.
shmoe, there are Universities in Canada that pay Grad students 30K !!? :surprised
That's it ! I'm heading north. :grumpy:
You just told me that she eats all of her entree. Now you're agreeing with my statement that no one can eat all of an entree?For me, it's at least two large meals. she's an active teenager.
Boy, you're in a mean mood tonight. :wink:
This is a thread about "How much money is sufficient for you", remember?
I'm dealing with raising kids that are used to a very affluent lifestyle that is NORMAL to them. I am lucky enough to make a decent living, but the girls have had to make concessions. If money was a problem, I know that they would do whatever was necessary.
Try to take things into perspective. If money wasn't a limit for you, ever, since you were born, how do you think you would view things? Maybe it has never been an issue for you.
I'm dealing with raising kids that are used to a very affluent lifestyle that is NORMAL to them.
You're the one making crying faces and complaining about her expenditures, but then you defend them. I'm confused.
- Warren
You're the one making crying faces and complaining about her expenditures, but then you defend them. I'm confused.
- WarrenBecause I never agreed with my husband's attitude toward money. I don't feel comfortable spending money that way. I wish my girls were more like me, but at the same time I have to realize what they feel is "normal".
His spending was one of the main reasons I left him. He always would blow it off saying that his income would always grow more than enough to compensate.
shmoe, there are Universities in Canada that pay Grad students 30K !!? :surprised
That's it ! I'm heading north. :grumpy:
That's Canadian...TAships for maybe 150hours and teaching a 1 semester course. Knock off 5.5k or so for tuition here, and whatever for rent (~400-600/month if you share a 2 bedroom apt), and insanely cheap food compared to wherever Evo lives :wink: , translate to $US, I'm not sure where we compare to American schools.
There are silly new awards from nserc worth $35k/year (Canadian). Combined with teaching, a phd student with one of these can make close to starting faculty.
please tell me:
1) how much to own a 1500 sq feet house or apartment in US
2) how much to buy a car as good as Honda Accord
3) how much to spend on petrol if you travel 300 km per week.
4) how much on food and drinks
5) water and electricity bill
6) telephone bill
Total = ______________ ?
1) how much to own a 1500 sq feet house or apartment in US
This varies over an extreme rangle. It could be anywhere from $500 in the middle of nowhere to as much as $3000 in a city.
2) how much to buy a car as good as Honda Accord
Roughly $15,000.
3) how much to spend on petrol if you travel 300 km per week.
Approximately $18 per week.
4) how much on food and drinks
Depends on what kind of food you eat. A cheap meal can be had for around $6-7. People often spend over $30 on a meal at a restaurant.
5) water and electricity bill
Usually around $20 and $50 per person or so. Also varies heavily.
6) telephone bill
Basic local phone service is about $15/month. Long distance (over 50 miles) is extra.
- Warren
Moonbear
Oct15-04, 01:09 AM
please tell me:
1) how much to own a 1500 sq feet house or apartment in US
2) how much to buy a car as good as Honda Accord
3) how much to spend on petrol if you travel 300 km per week.
4) how much on food and drinks
5) water and electricity bill
6) telephone bill
Total = ______________ ?
Saint, the trouble is there's no single answer to your questions. The US is so large and diverse that the answer will differ by a LOT depending on where in the US you live. My friends on the east coast own a house and property much smaller than mine and theirs is worth about 3 times as much as mine. Their home might be in that 1500 sq ft range, and due to location, it's worth about $450,000! I was shocked (I just found this out because they are talking about moving and got it appraised). Where I live, a 1500 sq ft home might sell for around $115,000 (with a nice piece of property; my friends' have a backyard that turns to a swamp every time it rains). This is why you get such variable replies to such questions. Even the price of food varies depending on where you live.
Evo I understand that everything should be in perspective, and from the sound of things, your family is upper middle class, which makes more sense, and explains why we middle class people are skeptical about the expenditures. It also sounds like you're the financial wiz of the family, so it's up to you to teach your daughter fiscal responsibility(which I'm not saying that you're not) We want to give the children the world if we can, but it's my personal belief that limits need to be set, or we set them up for failure. Because eventually we won't be there to protect them, and they have to be self sufficient. Your daughter may be used to a certain lifestyle, but unless she can generate the kind of income you are as an adult, she will be in for quite a shock and major adjustment as an adult. I always try to make sure my daughter understand the value of a dollar and that money(especially the kind of money we're talking about) doesn't come without sacrifice and hard work. And I'm not insinuating anything about your parenting skills.. Just laying out my perspective as a parent. So that's where I'm coming from. From the sound of it you work long and grievous hours to maintain that lifestyle(and I know how that goes as my cousin is an executive-she lives at work.), and I hope that your daughters truly appreciate how hard it is to generate enough to afford them a nice italian meal each night.
Ivan Seeking
Oct15-04, 03:07 AM
Saint, the trouble is there's no single answer to your questions. The US is so large and diverse that the answer will differ by a LOT depending on where in the US you live.
In some areas you can still buy a 1500 sq ft home for 60 or $70,000. On Maui, you can expect to pay 3 to 4 million for a 1500 sq ft home - adjacent to a good gold course with a spectacular ocean view. It guess it may even be more if you want to live next to Cher. :biggrin:
Personally, Tsu and I can get by on a few million a year. We like to gamble away most of it.
please tell me:
1) how much to own a 1500 sq feet house or apartment in US
2) how much to buy a car as good as Honda Accord
3) how much to spend on petrol if you travel 300 km per week.
4) how much on food and drinks
5) water and electricity bill
6) telephone bill
Total = ______________ ?
I see your point.. to live the kind of lifestyle you're talking about still varies- for instance to rent a house like that here in LA will run you about 2500/month. But if you just want an average, I can guesstimate that if you live in the middle of a range you would need about 2-3000/month to live off of. The average household US income is $42,000. That's roughly 2200/month after taxes. That should be easy to make with a competitive bachleors degree.
cragwolf
Oct15-04, 03:51 AM
I live contentedly on between $15k and $20k a year. I don't own a car (I walk to work, about 80 mins each way), I don't eat out in restaurants, I don't buy many clothes (certainly not expensive ones), I don't buy DVDs and CDs or any expensive consumer gadgets, I don't use Windows (I'm a Linux user), I don't drink alcohol or smoke, I don't go to the cinema, I don't have a girlfriend, I don't travel or go away on holidays, I don't gamble ... so I tend to avoid the most common drains on people's wallets. My three main expenses are rent ($150/week), food ($100/week) and physics/maths/astronomy books. Oh, and once every 4 or 5 years I buy a computer.
russ_watters
Oct15-04, 09:21 AM
Regarding food, I eat out at a sit-down restaurant of Applebees, Friday's, Olive Garden, or comparable quality (low-end, but decent sit down) once or twice a week. I always get the most expensive meal of any of my friends. A steak-and-shrimp combo for ~$18 is my usual at Friday's. But that's not a normal thing for me.
On a normal day, I eat a Wendy's, or Subway, or grocery store chicken ceasar salad lunch. I never pay more than $10, often less than $5. For dinner, I'm a little lazy and I never cook for real. Canned beef stew is a usual ($.50 - $1) and if I'm feeling like gourmet, a half a bag of a pre-cooked meal-in-a-bag chicken stir fry or something of the like (~$2.50).
But like I said before: your costs will inevitably expand to fill your money available. If your daughter didn't have the money for a $20 meal every night, she'd eat at Subway. It may feel like a step down for her, and you're right, Evo - people get used to what hey are used to - but I think its better to have it a little tough as a teen because you do get used to it and it makes it easier to live within your means when you are older. Even as a sligtly below average young engineer (I got a late start), my lifestyle feels downright opulent compared to my teenage years.
To Russ' statement I would add that I have BEEN to Olive Garden RECENTLY. It cost me 22 bucks for TWO people WITH tip (and I got a glass of wine I might add). AND it was in L.A. And aside from NY or San Fran, there is no other location in the states that is more expensive to eat out. For 20 bucks I could eat at Cheesecake factory, PF changs, macaroni grill, etc and still have money left over (allbeit not a lot), or virtually any food place in LA that's not "hot" or catering to famous clientelle. I'm having trouble even coming up with a restaurant where I could spend more than $20 on a meal. (well known nationally I mean). Even if we set aside the amount you're spending, I have to take issue with your Olive Garden example. However I don't know if it's a fact, or some vague statistic you pulled off the top of your head which might not be exact.
Personally, Tsu and I can get by on a few million a year. We like to gamble away most of it.
A few million? You've been holding out on us Daddy Warbucks. can I bum a few hundo thou?lol
It may feel like a step down for her, and you're right, Evo - people get used to what hey are used to - but I think its better to have it a little tough as a teen because you do get used to it and it makes it easier to live within your means when you are older. Even as a sligtly below average young engineer (I got a late start), my lifestyle feels downright opulent compared to my teenage years.
Yeah, tell me about it. The clothes my parents paid for, they got to pick out. The clothes I paid for, I got to pick out. A $1.25 allowance a week so we could have a drink with the lunches we packed at home? Get real, my mom only bought braunshweigger (or however it's spelled - I try to block it from my memory). Geez, where'd these people come from? You'd think my parents grew up in the depression or during World War II or .... :uhh: oh, yeah, I guess that explains it.
Anyway, suffice it to say, the kids in my family got part time jobs pretty early.
Yes, she's had it good. Fortunately she's very bright and she knows that she has it very easy right now and it will never be this easy again. We've discussed it. It keeps her focused on doing well in school and she understands the importance of being able to get a good job.
If she wants something and I say no, she does not argue with me. If I tell her to stop spending, she does.
It was her birthday on the third and all I bought her was a card. I could tell she looked disapointed, and I reminded her she had just bought herself a bunch of sweaters the week before, so Happy Birthday! She laughed and said "good point".
Moonbear
Oct15-04, 11:06 AM
Regarding food, I eat out at a sit-down restaurant of Applebees, Friday's, Olive Garden, or comparable quality (low-end, but decent sit down) once or twice a week. I always get the most expensive meal of any of my friends. A steak-and-shrimp combo for ~$18 is my usual at Friday's. But that's not a normal thing for me.
On a normal day, I eat a Wendy's, or Subway, or grocery store chicken ceasar salad lunch. I never pay more than $10, often less than $5. For dinner, I'm a little lazy and I never cook for real. Canned beef stew is a usual ($.50 - $1) and if I'm feeling like gourmet, a half a bag of a pre-cooked meal-in-a-bag chicken stir fry or something of the like (~$2.50).
:yuck: I can't believe how many folks here are claiming these chain restaurants are "decent quality" food. You could make the same meal at home for about $1, and without overcooked pasta. What it is is overpriced food. I only eat at those places when I'm traveling and just need to find a place to eat. It's barely a step above fast food in my book. And canned beef stew. :eek: Russ, gosh, you really need to take better care of yourself. My stepdad eats that stuff and I've always been hard pressed to see the difference between that and canned dogfood. :yuck:
But like I said before: your costs will inevitably expand to fill your money available. If your daughter didn't have the money for a $20 meal every night, she'd eat at Subway. It may feel like a step down for her, and you're right, Evo - people get used to what hey are used to - but I think its better to have it a little tough as a teen because you do get used to it and it makes it easier to live within your means when you are older. Even as a sligtly below average young engineer (I got a late start), my lifestyle feels downright opulent compared to my teenage years.
When I was in my late teens, my parents would leave me alone for the weekend while they went camping (they went every weekend and I got tired of going...camping to them is a trailer better equipped than most hotel rooms permanently parked in a campground). They would leave me with $20 for food for the entire weekend, and I'd manage to have change left at the end! I guess they expected me to order pizza and stuff like that, but I'd go to the grocery store, buy myself a package of chicken tenders for $2.50, get some vegetables, and make two dinners out of it. Lunches were just sandwiches (sometimes I'd splurge on a package of bacon and make BLTs), and I've never been a breakfast eater. I can't even fathom over $30/day for meals for a teenager! I can't fathom spending that much on myself on a regular basis.
Yes, she's had it good. Fortunately she's very bright and she knows that she has it very easy right now and it will never be this easy again. We've discussed it. It keeps her focused on doing well in school and she understands the importance of being able to get a good job.
So...can I still teach her to cook? :shy:
For some reason, restaurant food here is not cheap.
But you can't buy it at a restaurant here for that price. An entree at Applebees, TGI Fridays, Olive Garden, etc... which I consider sit down fast food will start around $16. You "can" make healthy choices. Obviously I wish I could be home to make her food, or that she was willing to cook, but that's not going to happen. Since I make enough money that it isn't an issue, it's not an issue.
Now if she wanted to eat at restaurants where a meal for one person was $75 or more, I'd have an issue.
as long as she understands that spending that much money on food alone is not something everyone is able to do (especially if she wants to help those less fortunate then her in her career later in life). how would she be if suddenly the money wasn't there to go out as she does now and she is forced to spend $100 a week on food? the lifestyle change is often the hardest for some to scale down on when things in life put them through difficult situations.
so the question here shouldn't be how much money is sufficient for you, but what kind of lifestyle do you afford?
Chi Meson
Oct15-04, 01:14 PM
please tell me:
1) how much to own a 1500 sq feet house or apartment in US
2) how much to buy a car as good as Honda Accord
3) how much to spend on petrol if you travel 300 km per week.
4) how much on food and drinks
5) water and electricity bill
6) telephone bill
Total = ______________ ?
What a freakin' hot thread! I guess we logical analytical type like to talk money!
ANyway, I can answer for coastal Connecticut:
1) USD 150,000--1,500,000 depending on neighborhood. Ours was 250,000 for 1700 sq feet. Mortgage 1600/month
2) 25,000 ? We bought used cars and paid in cash.
3) 60--80 ?
4) we don't drink, but food for 4 is 200/week.
5) water and electricity is 100/month for conservationalists, up to ten times that for conservatives.
6) 20/ month if you don't use it, sky is the limit if you make long-distance calls. I've seen a friend's bill that is regularly more per month than Evo's daughters food bill!
Overall our income is about 4000/month and out flow is just a little less.
Now you folks know way too much about me.
Gokul43201
Oct15-04, 01:24 PM
5) water and electricity is 100/month for conservationalists, up to ten times that for conservatives.
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
in California, about how much to BUY a 1500 sq ft house or apartment?
if you cook at home for 5 persons' dinner + lunch, buy stuff from market or WallMart, 50 dollar/week is enough to get fish/pork/vegetable ?
in California, about how much to BUY a 1500 sq ft house or apartment?
if you cook at home for 5 persons' dinner + lunch, buy stuff from market or WallMart, 50 dollar/week is enough to get fish/pork/vegetable ?Housing in California can be very expensive, but I'm not up to date of housing costs there.
At Walmart, if you shop wisely, buy bulk cuts of meat, use coupons, buy only sale items, I don't know if you could feed a family of five very well on $50/week, but you could do it very reasonably. I actually shop at a couple of different stores for different items because of cost. At Walmart, my favorite coffee creamer costs .98 cents, at my regular grocery store it's $1.58. I often stop at Walmart on the way home from work and pick up a whole roasted chicken for $3.98, some evenings they will mark them down to $2.98 to sell them quickly. At the grocery store they are $5.98. But other items are sometimes cheaper at the grocery store. I can get a 20lb bag of cat food for $5.99 at the grocery store, the cheapest at Walmart is $7.99. Go figure, I guess Walmart is not cat friendly. :frown:
in California, about how much to BUY a 1500 sq ft house or apartment?
if you cook at home for 5 persons' dinner + lunch, buy stuff from market or WallMart, 50 dollar/week is enough to get fish/pork/vegetable ?
The overall average home in california is $350K If you buy that house/condo on the coast- you will pay about 5-700k.. further inland away from the coast you can get it for low 300's.
$75-100/week is more realistic to feed 5 people that type of food. Of course sea food is a premium. If you give up that, you can probably spend more like 50-75/week.
I can get a 20lb bag of cat food for $5.99 at the grocery store, the cheapest at Walmart is $7.99. Go figure, I guess Walmart is not cat friendly. :frown:
What kind of cat food? Do you know what a 20lb bag of Iams goes for? It's about $33 Canadian here at Walmart or most grocery stores that carry it. Just curious what the cost of living for felines is down there.
What kind of cat food? Do you know what a 20lb bag of Iams goes for? It's about $33 Canadian here at Walmart or most grocery stores that carry it. Just curious what the cost of living for felines is down there.$33? :bugeye: More like $18 here. Cat food isn't expensive here.
cragwolf
Oct16-04, 01:56 AM
But like I said before: your costs will inevitably expand to fill your money available.
Well, you can repeat it, but it doesn't make it inevitable. In the past year my salary has almost doubled (it was very low), but my spending habits haven't changed. And I don't feel the urge to change them. Like most things, it depends on the person.
Monique
Oct16-04, 08:10 AM
It's very easy to spend that much on food eating out. Even if she only eats 2 meals a day, staying under $30 a day is difficult. Let's say she eats lunch at Hardee's, a hamburger, fries and drink are going to cost around $6. For dinner, let's say she eats at Olive Garden (cheap), $16.95 for the entree, $1.25 for an iced tea, she splits an appetizer with a friend ($3.50 for her half), that's $21.70 BEFORE tax and tip. Minimum tip (15%) is $3.26, but like me, she always leaves a minimum $5 tip for dinner, so before tax, and no dessert, that's $26.70 just for dinner. Plus lunch that's $32.70. Of course this doesn't include a few sodas during the day, at $1.25 for a small drink at a fast food place that can easily add another $5, if she wants a snack during the day, that's even more.
So, realistically, eating only two meals a day at $37.70 a day x 30 days a month, her food costs are $1,131.00.
Where the heck do you people eat?? Just started reading this thread.. I'm amazed by the lifestyle!! :surprised EVO! I usually eat at home :uhh:
But seriously, growing up I always had to take care of my own expenses. I actually always paid my parents for the food/electricity/heat I was consuming when living with them.. isn't that usual? Aren't you worried that letting your daughter consume so much will make her prone to putting herself in debt when living on her own?
Just started reading this thread.. I'm amazed by the lifestyle!! :surprised EVO! I usually eat at home :uhh:
But seriously, growing up I always had to take care of my own expenses. I actually always paid my parents for the food/electricity/heat I was consuming when living with them.. isn't that usual? Aren't you worried that letting your daughter consume so much will make her prone to putting herself in debt when living on her own?
i think her daughter is under age 18 which in America is still considered a child, which by law Evo is required to support her as she sees fit :smile: . if she was say 21 and not going to school, then it might be more usual for her daughter to compensate her for food and utilities. i do admire Evo's devotion to supporting her daughter and ensuring she has it good. i think as long as her daughter understands and appreciates what she has (because i do believe many youths her age do not have it this well) she won't take it for granted and expect this lifestyle to be a standard.
i was raised to eat at home as much as possible too. for example, last night i spent $18.00 on food for this weekend on my husband and i (kids are with their dad this weekend) at Trader Joe's (http://www.traderjoes.com/) (you gotta check them out!). the meals i bought included Ahi Tuna steak, cous cous, salad, new potatoes, chicken tenders, eggs (breakfast), orange juice and veggie chips. we eat very healthy with lots of proteins, veggies and "good" carbs. the time it takes to make this stuff is minimal considering how much money we are saving.
Monique
Oct16-04, 10:59 AM
i think her daughter is under age 18 which in America is still considered a child When I turned 16 and started going to college I had to stand on my own feet, I think most people do around here. But there is a more socialized system here, where the government provides part of the living expenses for students.. like an allowence.
Aren't you worried that letting your daughter consume so much will make her prone to putting herself in debt when living on her own?You'd have to know her to understand that she "gets it". She knows that her ability right now to afford things is a temporary luxury. She'd rather eat at Taco Bell every night and spend $3.99 for the #5 meal deal. I am the one that prefers her to get a decent meal at least once a day. I guess I didn't make that clear. Of course that doesn't always happen, she will eat junk or skip meals, which is why I have a low monthly range of $600.
She does love to buy clothes though. The thing is, if I tell her to stop spending, she does. Honestly she's drastically cut back over the past year.
She's not an airhead that can't understand money or living on a budget. I was more concerned about her older sister that lived with her father. He is an idiot when it comes to money. He has always spent beyond his means, he always buys the most expensive items, eats at lavish restaurants, at one time he had 27 briefcases that cost $600 each on average. He has an entire dresser full of expensive watches, I lost count of them, they're like candy to him. Same thing with sunglasses. He'd buy a $200 pair of non-prescription designer sunglasses, go to lunch, leave them at the restaurant, decide it's not worth his time to go get them and just buy another pair. This happened ALL OF THE TIME. He would do things like buy a cd player (back when they were a couple of hundred dollars), decide he didn't want it and put it in the trash. I got it out of the trash because it hadn't even been taken out of the box yet. He saw me bring it into the house and he got furious, telling me to throw it back out because he didn't want that style, he was going to buy another. I told him to take it back to the store and exchange it. He said that was too much trouble to go through an exchange. I said I'd take it back and we got into a terrible argument.
When I threw him out, he had racked up over $292,000 in CREDIT CARD debt alone, that's more than some people's mortgages. At 18-23% interest, I figured Mars would be colonized before he could pay them off. I told him he needed professional help.
My older daughter learned quickly that when you support yourself you need to have a budget, and she has adapted even though she lived with him for several years. She learned it the hard way, the first couple of months she ran out of money before the end of the month and had no money for food. She also lived for almost a year on ramen noodles. Hey, I love ramen noodles.
My younger daughter that lives with me likes to buy things, but she doesn't have to buy things. She understands budgets and bills. I pay cash for everything, unfortunately you need credit cards for hotels and rental cars.
My younger daughter knows that when she goes off to college, no more shopping. A couple of months ago she came to me with a complete list of her anticipated expenses, she had checked into tuition for the schools she wants to attend, costs of books, boarding, etc... to see if it was acceptable. She's a good kid. I keep telling her that she needs to make LOTS of money when she grows up because she will be supporting me when I get old. :devil: :biggrin:
Monique, your parents let you pay them? :surprised Can I adopt you? :biggrin:
i think her daughter is under age 18 which in America is still considered a child, which by law Evo is required to support her as she sees fit :smile: If she wasn't such a good kid, I wouldn't be as willing. When I see the problems that some of her friends are putting their parents through, I count my blessings. I'd rather let her buy a new pair of shoes than shuck out $50,000 on legal fees like the parents of her best friend, he just can't stay out of trouble. Not to mention the $$$ they spent on that private boarding school they sent him off to thinking it would keep him out of trouble. I'm getting off cheap.
i was raised to eat at home as much as possible too. for example, last night i spent $18.00 on food for this weekend on my husband and i (kids are with their dad this weekend) at Trader Joe's (http://www.traderjoes.com/) (you gotta check them out!). the meals i bought included Ahi Tuna steak, cous cous, salad, new potatoes, chicken tenders, eggs (breakfast), orange juice and veggie chips. we eat very healthy with lots of proteins, veggies and "good" carbs. the time it takes to make this stuff is minimal considering how much money we are saving.Ooh, Kerrie that sounds good!!! :approve:
JasonRox
Oct16-04, 11:53 AM
I believe you that she understands it, but I just think it is that easy to stop a habit like this.
A habit is a habit. Not only is this a habit, it is also an addiction.
i.e. Your ex-husband.
The more you do something, the more prone you become to HAVE to do it.
People learn to spend even though THEY KNOW they can't, but it is an addiction.
In all honesty... if she truly understands the value of a dollar, she would be cooking meals.
NOTE: Someone with a spending problem is not an idiot. It is a problem just like any other.
EDIT: Being addicted to math or physics is no different.
Monique
Oct16-04, 11:59 AM
You'd have to know her to understand that she "gets it". Yes, I do believe that. It sounds like you did teach her good standards and she knows the value of things.
But important: Make sure she knows exactly how much she is spending and on what, don't let the food and the clothes be a consolation for something missed.
NOTE: Someone with a spending problem is not an idiot. It is a problem just like any other.He has a problem, but he's also an idiot. Example - He had wiped out my savings account that I had before we got married. I kept telling him we needed to save money, it was important to have savings.
So, one day he comes up to me and hands me a savings account book. I asked him where he got the money to put into the savings. He wrote a credit check off of one of the credit cards (which charged 23% interest) and deposited the money into a savings account (which paid 5% interest). I tried to explain to him that this "savings" account was costing us money. I told him to close the savings account, pay the penalty and pay back the credit card. It would save us money in the long run. He also couldn't balance a check book.
Trust me, he's an idiot.
Moonbear
Oct16-04, 01:12 PM
When I turned 16 and started going to college I had to stand on my own feet, I think most people do around here. But there is a more socialized system here, where the government provides part of the living expenses for students.. like an allowence.
I think that is common in Europe, right? To start college around 16? In the US, students don't typically start college until they are 17 or 18 (depending on when their birthday is...most are 18).
Monique, I think your experience is something that really doesn't happen as much with the current generation...their parents spoil them a lot more. Even in my generation, it was not as common as is used to be, but when I was growing up, yes, adult children (talk about an oxymoron) living at home with their parents would be expected to pay a small amount toward rent or utility bills. Not really what you'd pay if you were out on your own, but enough to keep you responsible and still let you save up some of your money so you'd be able to afford to move out sooner than later! I'm somewhat apalled nowadays by the number of kids still living home with their parents well into their 20s. Then again, in my generation, we didn't like our parents enough to want to live with them. The biggest incentive to get your act together and find your own place to live was to get out from under your parents' rules. The current generation seems to act more like best friends with their parents.
Evo, will you let me go shopping with your daughter. :biggrin: I actually hate shopping, but the toughest thing about moving up from being a grad student/post-doc to a faculty position was that after all those years of wearing the same old clothes, I needed to buy a LOT of clothes to be more professional in appearance (yes, I know there are plenty of profs who still show up to work in jeans, and I do occassionally myself, but there are a lot more meetings where you need to look professional, and since I'm still young (or at least look that way :biggrin:), if I wear jeans and t-shirts, I still get mistaken for a grad student! Anyway, the point I think I started out making is that, yes, I was able to live on a lower budget previously, but as I increased my salary, and rank, I have additional expenses I didn't have as a student, such as needing to maintain a nicer wardrobe, and I have a house, not a two bedroom apt, so there are more rooms that need furnishing. Even if I still lived in an apt, my old garage sale furniture would have needed replacing because it was becoming wobbly from so many moves. So, it's partly true that as your salary increases, you do usually end up with more expenses to go along with it, but it doesn't need to.
Evo, will you let me go shopping with your daughter. Certainly. :biggrin:
I don't like shopping either. I want to get in and out of the store as quickly as possible.
Funny, I was spoiled rotten growing up. I never had to ask for anything. My father could only show love with money and I always had the nicest, newest, "everything" of any of my friends. I got a new car on my birthday every year since I turned 16. My father paid all of my expenses for several years after I moved out.
I am a coupon clipping, low budget, low maintenance, do it your selfer. I cannot bring myself to buy expensive clothes or shoes or purses. I think it's a terrible waste of money.
I work with a bunch of clothing snobs. One manager was saying that she didn't hire a woman because she was wearing cheap shoes!! These women actually judge people by their shoes and handbags!! I had never heard of Joan and David. I know they look down on me because I don't wear designer clothes and I think they're pathetic snobs. I have to wear suits to work, but I look for sales. I tend to shop at the end of season when everything is clearance priced.
SergejVictorov
Oct16-04, 02:20 PM
She's going to Switzerland in January.
Might I ask what area she is going to? And is she visiting Switzerland as an exchange student? Just curious :rolleyes:
Might I ask what area she is going to? And is she visiting Switzerland as an exchange student? Just curious :rolleyes:She will be staying with friend's of her father's that live on a lake on the Swiss side, the other side of the lake is France. It sounds like Lake Geneva. I don't have all the details yet. She's going on break from school, she will also travel through France and Italy.
Her father is sending her, which is why I don't know exactly where she is going yet.
SergejVictorov
Oct16-04, 03:35 PM
Yes, it's most likely Lake Geneva. It's a very nice place to stay. And since this thread is about money, I have to say that it's also pretty expensive, but this applies to almost every place in Switzerland to be honest :smile:
I would love to go to Switzerland. Perhaps someday in the near future. I love mountians. :smile:
franznietzsche
Oct16-04, 04:01 PM
For me, with a teenage daughter, in the midwest, $10,000 a month average net take home pay just barely cuts it. Ok, she's spoiled. She's going to Switzerland in January. She has a much grander lifestyle than I do. :rolleyes:
But yesterday I told her I was cold (the weather is getting chilly) and she bought me a bunch of incredible warm clothes (from her own earnings) so I would be comfortable. :approve:
Thats $120,000 a year. If that barely cuts it in the midwest, you have some spending priority issues, or a massive amount of personal debt to pay off. Sending your kid to switzerland? That is not barely cutting it.
Moonbear
Oct16-04, 04:02 PM
I work with a bunch of clothing snobs. One manager was saying that she didn't hire a woman because she was wearing cheap shoes!! These women actually judge people by their shoes and handbags!!
:eek: Did you tell them that if they were wearing cheap shoes, maybe they really were the one who needed the job? How can you tell anyway? Shoes are shoes. Besides, the fancier the shoes, the less comfortable they are. Bah, I can do without that!
I had never heard of Joan and David.
:uhh: :confused: I guess I haven't either. Who are Joan and David?
I know they look down on me because I don't wear designer clothes and I think they're pathetic snobs. I have to wear suits to work, but I look for sales. I tend to shop at the end of season when everything is clearance priced.
Unless you're working in the fashion industry, that just makes no sense to expect people to wear designer clothing to work. In men's suits, I can reasonably tell there is a difference between certain brands...a cheap suit is obvious, so I can see getting one or two of the better suits for those really important business meetings. But, with women's suits, honestly, I don't see much difference in quality whether I pick up something off the rack at JC Penneys or walk into some boutique shop, etc. Besides, when it comes to womens' suits, those name brand ones look like old lady suits to me...those stuffy looking things wives of politicians wear. :yuck: Save the fashion show for parties and keep business attire business-like. The most important quality in a suit, for me, is wrinkle-resistant!
:uhh: :confused: I guess I haven't either. Who are Joan and David?Overpriced shoes for snobs. I don't even recognize the names of the designer shoes and purses these women talk about.
The most important quality in a suit, for me, is wrinkle-resistant!I would love them to be machine washable!! :biggrin:
devious_
Oct16-04, 04:16 PM
SergejVictorov, Switzerland is, like, my dream country. :biggrin: How's life over there?
Thats $120,000 a year. If that barely cuts it in the midwest, you have some spending priority issues, or a massive amount of personal debt to pay off. Sending your kid to switzerland? That is not barely cutting it.
i have to agree that $120K is a nice salary. my husband and i live on half that.
i have to agree that $120K is a nice salary. my husband and i live on half that.But you're half my age. :wink:
It's not what it's cracked up to be. There are also obligations with my job to contribute to charity. We also sponsor needy families in the area.
I voluntarily contribute to animal rescue.
I am required to "chip in" to events at work. I'm management and we have to provide for the non-management people that work for us. I just got an e-mail yesterday reminding me I need to send in my money for the Thanksgiving party we pay for, for the occupational (non-management) people. I'm talking about a LARGE number of people, this is a large office.
I have to buy gifts all of the time for the people that work under me as a "thank you".
I have clients that I have to take out to eat and buy gifts for. The company no longer pays for this, but my clients make me money and expect it.
It seems like every time I turn around someone has their hand out for money.
If you've ever seen "The Money Pit" with Tom Hanks, that's my house. :frown: I pay more per month in repairs than my mortgage payment. I'm slowly and painfully replacing every square inch of this HELL HOLE. :surprised
i think her daughter is under age 18 which in America is still considered a child, which by law Evo is required to support her as she sees fit :smile: . if she was say 21 and not going to school, then it might be more usual for her daughter to compensate her for food and utilities. i do admire Evo's devotion to supporting her daughter and ensuring she has it good. i think as long as her daughter understands and appreciates what she has (because i do believe many youths her age do not have it this well) she won't take it for granted and expect this lifestyle to be a standard.
i was raised to eat at home as much as possible too. for example, last night i spent $18.00 on food for this weekend on my husband and i (kids are with their dad this weekend) at Trader Joe's (http://www.traderjoes.com/) (you gotta check them out!). the meals i bought included Ahi Tuna steak, cous cous, salad, new potatoes, chicken tenders, eggs (breakfast), orange juice and veggie chips. we eat very healthy with lots of proteins, veggies and "good" carbs. the time it takes to make this stuff is minimal considering how much money we are saving.
Trader joes isn't meant to be a full service grocery store (though some use it that way) it's a speciality store that carries mostly imported food, and is thusly a little more expensive than the typical grocery store. That said I like the place- I go there occasionally to pick up some things..
Oh and I spend about $200/month on groceries. I eat really well. Fish, steak, regular food..
But you're half my age. :wink:
evo, i will be 32 next month, are you actually 64??
evo, i will be 32 next month, are you actually 64??You look 18! :biggrin:
franznietzsche
Oct16-04, 08:54 PM
i have to agree that $120K is a nice salary. my husband and i live on half that.
I had better be able to live on just $60k, because i doubt i will be making more than that, being a physics major who plans on doing doctoral work in theoretical astrophysics, so if i'm making more then $60k, then the government decided they really wanted some astrophysicists to build their next big bomb. Although T division at Los Alamos would be really frickin cool.
I had better be able to live on just $60k, because i doubt i will be making more than that, being a physics major who plans on doing doctoral work in theoretical astrophysics, so if i'm making more then $60k, then the government decided they really wanted some astrophysicists to build their next big bomb. Although T division at Los Alamos would be really frickin cool.
um, my husband and i earn that jointly, not each.
You look 18!
yes, i always am proud to show off my ID when i buy alcohol :rofl:
franznietzsche
Oct16-04, 10:27 PM
um, my husband and i earn that jointly, not each.
Well i figure post doc position from what i have heard are usually $20k per year, more in high cost of living areas though i'm sure. I imagine for a proffesorship without tenure/ research post $35k-$45k depending on the institution, with tenure 45k-60k depending on the institution. ANd actually could anyone here give more accurate figures? I would actually be interested in knowing.
My comment about having to live on that much was partly sardonic, because i know full well that i don't need that much to live just me. With a family though, then i obviously have to question the viability of a post doc salary. I want enough for my wife to not have to work unless she wants to, not for money, but because its what she wants to do.
Well i figure post doc position from what i have heard are usually $20k per year, more in high cost of living areas though i'm sure. I imagine for a proffesorship without tenure/ research post $35k-$45k depending on the institution, with tenure 45k-60k depending on the institution. ANd actually could anyone here give more accurate figures? I would actually be interested in knowing.
My comment about having to live on that much was partly sardonic, because i know full well that i don't need that much to live just me. With a family though, then i obviously have to question the viability of a post doc salary. I want enough for my wife to not have to work unless she wants to, not for money, but because its what she wants to do.
it all depends on the area you live in too...where i live, the cost of living is a little high. 60K affords us a decent frugal life plus i help support my two kids. i don't own a home (yet), but certainly don't have to live in the hood either. gas here is extremely high compared to the rest of the country also. considering $10/hr = $21K a year, you may realize that 60K isn't that much for two people to live on and helping support two young kids.
it all depends on the area you live in too...where i live, the cost of living is a little high. 60K affords us a decent frugal life plus i help support my two kids. i don't own a home (yet), but certainly don't have to live in the hood either. gas here is extremely high compared to the rest of the country also. considering $10/hr = $21K a year, you may realize that 60K isn't that much for two people to live on and helping support two young kids.
Where I live the average household income is $80K.. I am not rich- trust me :cry:
SergejVictorov
Oct17-04, 05:12 AM
SergejVictorov, Switzerland is, like, my dream country. :biggrin: How's life over there?
Well, I must say I can't complain about life over here. For young people, finding a good job without degree can be difficult. Also, living costs are said to be very high. You can have a hard time finding a nice apartment with 4 rooms for less than 1200$ a month. Decent restaurants are also expensive so eating out is not usual, at least for me. A mansion near a lake can be worth several million $.
I must say though that the educational system and the health system are very good. The weather in my area is good too. In summer, we sometimes have up to 38°C (100°F). In winter, it's usually cold, but usually not below -10°C (14°F). Up in the mountains, everything is different and in certain areas it can be really cold.
You don't have to own a car in Switzerland unless you live in a very remote area (which is very unlikely because it's a tiny country) or you are lazy. Public transportation is very good and gets you almost everywhere. Bicycles are very common, too. Unfortunately, few people realize that a car is a lot slower than the train. The situation on the roads is a big issue here.
I've attached a picture that shows the view from my room. The view is pretty good. Unfortunately, new houses (especially condominium blocks) are being built on every small spot that is still untilled so finding a house with a good view is slowly becoming a very difficult thing.
Here in Spain, a 2500 € is a good month salary to live in peace, without worries I think. (1 € = 1.25 $USD).
marley.wannabee
Oct17-04, 10:04 AM
For real, ten billion dollars is what i'd be satisfied with. It seems that the people who have that much money now like to destroy the enviornment, disrupt democratic process, etc. I want to make that much because i'd do the opposite with it...
to be 'satisfied' with less would be unfair to my true potential
so before you just delete out my post, ask me why :yuck:
Gokul43201
Oct17-04, 10:29 AM
Well i figure post doc position from what i have heard are usually $20k per year, more in high cost of living areas though i'm sure. I imagine for a proffesorship without tenure/ research post $35k-$45k depending on the institution, with tenure 45k-60k depending on the institution. ANd actually could anyone here give more accurate figures? I would actually be interested in knowing.
Post doc positions pay anywhere from 25K (small university group) to 50K (National Lab/Industry PostDoc). A typical number, however, is closer to 30K.
Median Physics salaries in a typical university are about (2003/04):
Assistant Prof : 60K
Associate Prof : 65K
Tenured Prof : 85K
I know some tenured Professors that make easily over 100K - they're the big shots.
I read this recently, perhaps off the AIP website (aip.org), you could check that out - they may have more specific data than I'm giving you.
Where I live the average household income is $80K.. I am not rich- trust me :cry:
southern cal is expensive i am sure.
I had better be able to live on just $60k, because i doubt i will be making more than that, being a physics major who plans on doing doctoral work in theoretical astrophysics, so if i'm making more then $60k, then the government decided they really wanted some astrophysicists to build their next big bomb. Although T division at Los Alamos would be really frickin cool.My little sister's ex boyfriend is an unemployed astrophysicist. He delivers pizza for a living. Both of his parents are professors at a large University. So their combined incomes make them very comfortable. It's really a shame though that there is not more money in the sciences.
One of my ex-boyfriends had a Ph.D in Biochemistry and only made $45,000/year. He'll probably never make more than $60,000. This just isn't right.
My little sister's ex boyfriend is an unemployed astrophysicist. He delivers pizza for a living. Both of his parents are professors at a large University. So their combined incomes make them very comfortable. It's really a shame though that there is not more money in the sciences.
One of my ex-boyfriends had a Ph.D in Biochemistry and only made $45,000/year. He'll probably never make more than $60,000. This just isn't right.
How does that work out?
I actually was speaking to my science teacher and he said most times people that get their masters/Ph.D in science fields or professors make maybe a little more than they do.
cragwolf
Oct17-04, 08:46 PM
Well, I must say I can't complain about life over here.
Sergej, how are foreigners treated in Switzerland? Especially hairy, Mediterranean ones like me.
Gokul43201
Oct17-04, 10:09 PM
One of my ex-boyfriends had a Ph.D in Biochemistry and only made $45,000/year. He'll probably never make more than $60,000.
On what basis do you make this guess ?
The median salary for a tenured Biochemistry Prof is nearly 100K.
Hi All,
are you able to save 20% of your gross income monthly after all expenses?
Very few people can manage to save 20% of their gross income.
- Warren
On what basis do you make this guess ?
The median salary for a tenured Biochemistry Prof is nearly 100K.He prefers to remain in research. He was in AIDS research when we dated.
franznietzsche
Oct17-04, 11:04 PM
My little sister's ex boyfriend is an unemployed astrophysicist. He delivers pizza for a living. Both of his parents are professors at a large University. So their combined incomes make them very comfortable. It's really a shame though that there is not more money in the sciences.
One of my ex-boyfriends had a Ph.D in Biochemistry and only made $45,000/year. He'll probably never make more than $60,000. This just isn't right.
Yeah, those of us who go seeking PhDs rarely do it for the money. We do it because we like the field. I'm sure this will come as a shock to my mom when she one day discovers that college will never make me wealthy. Too bad.
Dagenais
Oct17-04, 11:19 PM
Yeah, tell me about it. The clothes my parents paid for, they got to pick out. The clothes I paid for, I got to pick out. A $1.25 allowance a week so we could have a drink with the lunches we packed at home? Get real, my mom only bought braunshweigger (or however it's spelled - I try to block it from my memory). Geez, where'd these people come from? You'd think my parents grew up in the depression or during World War II or .... oh, yeah, I guess that explains it.
Anyway, suffice it to say, the kids in my family got part time jobs pretty early.
Sounds tough. A lot of American teenagers are into getting jobs at age 16, having allowances and having to pay their parents back for some larger expenses.
A lot of Chinese kids are spoiled. I've talked to quite a few kids that moved from Hong Kong. There parents will just buy them a new Porsche Boxster or BMW just like that. If you think that's not possible, head to Richmond, British Columbia. It's a city full of people from Hong Kong, and you'll definitely spot a 16-20 year old driving in a Lexus, BMW, Benz etc. I doubt Chinese kids spend as much money on clothing or food as American kids do though. They are rarely ever pressured into getting jobs early. Of course, I'm talking about Chinese kids in Canada, the only ones I've talked to.
Besides, childhood is so short. Do people really have to burden their children with allowances, force them mow the lawn for $5 so they can save for that next video game or making them pay for half the cost of the CD player they want?
They'll have more than enough time to worry about money in adulthood. Let them enjoy their childhood, free from financial burden. They'll probably be a lot happier.
Where the heck do you people eat??
At home, side-walk cafes, sandwich/soup shops. I rarely ever eat McDonalds /BK/Wendy's anymore. Can't stand that crap.
Aren't you worried that letting your daughter consume so much will make her prone to putting herself in debt when living on her own?
Debt or bad credit doesn't seem to be anything unfamiliar for Americans. Like Jay Leno said, two favorite hobbies of Americans are getting fat and getting into debt.
The more you do something, the more prone you become to HAVE to do it.
They'll have to stop eventually when their credit gets ruined or they have to declare bankruptcy.
My little sister's ex boyfriend is an unemployed astrophysicist. He delivers pizza for a living. Both of his parents are professors at a large University. So their combined incomes make them very comfortable. It's really a shame though that there is not more money in the sciences.
One of my ex-boyfriends had a Ph.D in Biochemistry and only made $45,000/year. He'll probably never make more than $60,000. This just isn't right.
$45,000 for researching against AIDs.
While, over in the NHL, guys get millions for playing a game. Yet, they still complain, demand more money, and strike.
That just isn't right.
There parents will just buy them a new Porsche Boxster or BMW just like that. If you think that's not possible, head to Richmond, British Columbia. It's a city full of people from Hong Kong, and you'll definitely spot a 16-20 year old driving in a Lexus, BMW, Benz etc.Yep, one of my daughter's friends got a new Lexus for his 16th birthday. Another kid got a new BMW. She'll have to make do with her Toyota. :devil:
$45,000 for researching against AIDs.
While, over in the NHL, guys get millions for playing a game..I know, it burns me up.
Gokul43201
Oct18-04, 12:17 AM
$45,000 for researching against AIDs.
While, over in the NHL, guys get millions for playing a game. Yet, they still complain, demand more money, and strike.
That just isn't right. The NHL guys bring joy to hundreds of thousands of people week after week...but the AIDS researcher may never end up with anything useful :frown:
Okay...that was in jest, so don't eat me up. :uhh:
(That's capitalism - learn to live with it ! :devil: )
Yeah, those of us who go seeking PhDs rarely do it for the money. We do it because we like the field.To be able to do something you want do do, are passionate about, enjoy, what greater reward is there than that?
I would rather have that than tons of money.
Gokul43201
Oct18-04, 12:30 AM
To be able to do something you want do do, are passionate about, enjoy, what greater reward is there than that?
I would rather have that than tons of money.
A little money on the side would be useful...for those once-in-a-blue-moon vacations we'd like to take.
The only use I have for extra money is traveling (and books) - don't care about fancy cars, mansions with swimming pools or going on luxury cruises.
SergejVictorov
Oct18-04, 01:07 AM
Sergej, how are foreigners treated in Switzerland? Especially hairy, Mediterranean ones like me.
Foreigners are usually treated good. There are some folks who are prejudiced when it comes to foreigners but I believe they are the minority. Italian, Portuguese and Spanish people have established a good presence in Switzerland. After all, 21.6% of the Swiss inhabitants are foreigners. I've always used to see this as a positive thing, not a burden.
franznietzsche
Oct18-04, 03:23 AM
To be able to do something you want do do, are passionate about, enjoy, what greater reward is there than that?
I would rather have that than tons of money.
That's why I'm a physics major, not an engineering or computer science major.
how about houses in Florida, are they expensive?
That's why I'm a physics major, not an engineering or computer science major.
It could also mean that you enjoy physics more than engineering or computer science.
how about houses in Florida, are they expensive?
Why do you keep asking these kinds of questions? They don't have any answers. Houses vary enormously by location and by quality.
- Warren
Dagenais
Oct18-04, 01:30 PM
The NHL guys bring joy to hundreds of thousands of people week after week...but the AIDS researcher may never end up with anything useful
The reason the owners have locked out the NHL players is because they do not draw enough people week after week. The Stanley Cup didn't even draw higher ratings than High School sports highlights.
franznietzsche
Oct18-04, 02:59 PM
It could also mean that you enjoy physics more than engineering or computer science.
That was the point.
The reason the owners have locked out the NHL players is because they do not draw enough people week after week. The Stanley Cup didn't even draw higher ratings than High School sports highlights.
I was so incredibly...there's no word for this emotion... Went to buy tickets for Chistmas time...Oh, sorry, no games. Too bad. So incredibly furious, even now.
what website can i check the prices of houses in US?
what website can i check the prices of houses in US?
Realtor (http://www.realtor.com)
i check it weekly for homes in my area :smile:
That was the point.
I know, but what I was emphasizing with that was that the salary is only a bonus.
US cars are cheap, but houses are damn expensive.
How much to rent a 1500 sq ft house, let's say in Boston.
I won't stop untill I own the world!!!
Gokul43201
Oct18-04, 09:29 PM
US cars are cheap, but houses are damn expensive.
How much to rent a 1500 sq ft house, let's say in Boston.
You complain that houses are expensive, yet ask for rental rates in a city with probably one of the highest costs of housing.
What is the point of these random queries ? I can't imagine that you're thinking of moving here, given your opinions of this country.
Hi, I am looking for a city which has moderate living cost. Plan to move there one day (may in 3 years time).
I am totally unfamiliar with US. Therefore i ask.........stupid questions???
Hi, I am looking for a city which has moderate living cost. Plan to move there one day (may in 3 years time).
I am totally unfamiliar with US. Therefore i ask.........stupid questions???
You're asking a very broad question and expecting very narrow answers, which won't happen. Any city that is on the west or the east coast of the US will be expensive, so you most likely won't want to live there. So you can live somewhere ithe midwest or south. give us a specific city, and we can tell you. Otherwise do what I do:
www.google.com
It sounds like you need to look at a map of the US first before you ask questions about how much it costs to live here.
Gokul43201
Oct19-04, 02:12 AM
Hi, I am looking for a city which has moderate living cost. Plan to move there one day (may in 3 years time).
But why ???
I am totally unfamiliar with US.
Yet you want to move here...this is confusing... :confused:
Anyway, I suggest, as Zantra did, that you do a bit of research yourself. That will get you more answers in less time, with more accuracy.
Which part of US is free of earthquake and tornado/hurricane?
Gokul43201
Oct19-04, 09:48 AM
Define 'free'.
russ_watters
Oct19-04, 03:42 PM
Probably the north-central part, but then you have to deal with the freezing cold and meters of snow.
which part of US has no crime at all? No robbery, no prostitution, no murder, as peace as heaven.
which part of US has no crime at all? No robbery, no prostitution, no murder, as peace as heaven.
I live there :biggrin:
No seriously, that place doesn't exist.. you can find a place with low crime, but not NO crime.. I live pretty close to what was deemed "the safest city in america". Crimes still happen though... it's just a fact of life
franznietzsche
Oct19-04, 08:34 PM
Which part of US is free of earthquake and tornado/hurricane?
None. Anywhere you go, you'll get one of:
Earthquake
Volcano
Tornado
Hurricane
Frequent Flooding.
franznietzsche
Oct19-04, 08:35 PM
"the safest city in america".
So how's Montana on the Canadian border?
I live there :biggrin:
Is that why there's no violence and such there? :tongue:
So how's Montana on the Canadian border?
ya I actually live in alaska- town population 1;)
or at least that's the only way you get no violence or crime;)
franznietzsche
Oct20-04, 04:37 AM
How is Minnesota?
Depends where. Rural Minnesota (the majority of the state is small towns most less than 60,000) is nice, my dad's familly all live there. However the cities are different. In rura minnesota (like Waseca) the twin cities are the "sin cities." though its also a strong religious area, which of course ptobably exaggerates that view of the cities. I like it there. Cold winters though. Also you still get tornados, though not like in oklahoma or kansas. They're smaller and elss frequent, but late in the season they do happen. One touched down across the street from my grandparents' house last summer.l
Gokul43201
Oct20-04, 09:18 AM
In Minnesota, you'll find 1 foot of snow on the ground as late as april.
None. Anywhere you go, you'll get one of:
Earthquake
Volcano
Tornado
Hurricane
Frequent Flooding.
and in some cases all of the above.. or at least most!
Saint, Idaho sounds like your best bet. No extreme weather, sunny all the time, and a lot of wholesomeness.
Moonbear
Oct20-04, 11:45 AM
One of my ex-boyfriends had a Ph.D in Biochemistry and only made $45,000/year. He'll probably never make more than $60,000. This just isn't right.
Evo, that can't be right unless he's just dabbling around at a small teaching college. $60,000 is a typical starting salary for a tenure-track position, actually, it's a bit on the low end; it would be more typical of a 9-month appointment, where you rely on grants to support your summer salary. NIH has been working on making salaries more competitive for PhDs in academic research because we are losing too many people to industry. Universities are starting to catch on that the old days of people working for peanuts out of their love for the science are gone. Currently, NIH stipend levels for post-docs are around $40,000, recognizing that someone with a PhD shouldn't be paid less than the technicians with only an MS, or the secretaries with only a BA. This has only been changing in the past 5 years or so, where there has been a big push to increase PhD salaries to levels that will retain the good scientists in research (it has also made it more competitive to obtain funding since the money doesn't go as far for research when you need to pay higher salaries, but that just means more selectivity for those who do good enough research to deserve those salary levels).
However, when you consider the number of hours professors work, these salaries are still not really competitive with those in industry who work fewer hours. I had looked into some alternative careers, including working as a science advisor in a law office. I looked at the billable hours they required, factored in what a typical ratio of billable to non-billable hours is, and realized I could work fewer hours for twice the salary I'd be earning in academic research. It sounded like a nice job except that I'm not good at sitting at a desk doing paperwork all day... :zzz:
Saint, Idaho sounds like your best bet. No extreme weather, sunny all the time, and a lot of wholesomeness.
boooooring
why not just move to kansas while you're at it.
Live a little, spend a little... move to NY or LA and really experience good living :smile:
Saint, Idaho sounds like your best bet. No extreme weather, sunny all the time, and a lot of wholesomeness.
Err... Idaho may not be the best choice to send someone from Malaysia...
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/orgs/american/adl/paranoia-as-patriotism/aryan-nations.html
Headquartered near Hayden Lake, Idaho, Aryan Nations is a paramilitary hate group founded in the mid-1970s by Rev. Richard Girnt Butler, now 77 years old. It was formed around Butler's Church of Jesus Christ Christian, one of the several hundred churches affiliated with "Identity," a pseudo-theological hate movement. Identity doctrine maintains that Anglo-Saxons, not Jews, are the Biblical "chosen people," that non-whites are "mud people" on the level of animals,* and that Jews are "children of Satan."
Aryan Nations militantly advocates anti-Semitism and the establishment of a white racist state.
*bold inserted by me.
boise idaho was what I was referring to. boise is quite a nice calm town that is growing and does not have any extreme natural disaster tendencies. i was quite impressed with it myself, and from what i heard, boise embraces other races quite well now. the catch is they may want you to join a mormon church :)
Err... Idaho may not be the best choice to send someone from Malaysia...
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/orgs/american/adl/paranoia-as-patriotism/aryan-nations.html
*bold inserted by me.
God kerrie.. just send the guy to his death, why dontcha :wink:
LA is culturally diverse and WARM.. there are RARELY earthquakes, and all the hype about falling into the ocean, mudslides, etc is just that: hype. And most importantly, it's very culturally diverse. Lots of Malays...I highly recommend!
Gokul43201
Oct20-04, 05:45 PM
boise idaho was what I was referring to. boise is quite a nice calm town that is growing and does not have any extreme natural disaster tendencies. i was quite impressed with it myself, and from what i heard, boise embraces other races quite well now. the catch is they may want you to join a mormon church :)
I've heard there's more Mormons in Boise than in Salt Lake City ! Can that be true ?
boise idaho was what I was referring to. boise is quite a nice calm town that is growing and does not have any extreme natural disaster tendencies. i was quite impressed with it myself, and from what i heard, boise embraces other races quite well now. the catch is they may want you to join a mormon church :)
I've never been to Boise but I spent a week in Coeur d'Alene learning a new scanner and the people I met who lived there seemed fairly prejudiced against anyone other than whites. (I didn't fit in too well... :rolleyes:)
I wasn't aware there were a lot of Mormons in Boise. It's not very close to Utah... does Mormonism spread that far out of Utah? Well... now that I think about it, I guess it sure could, couldn't it! It's not all that far... :redface: :smile:
I've heard there's more Mormons in Boise than in Salt Lake City ! Can that be true ?
(you posted this while was I writing my post to kerrie! :surprised :biggrin:)
WOW! No joke?? I wonder......hmmm. Interesting.
I have to agree with what Zantra said about LA. The only problem with LA (and one of the main reasons I wanted to leave) was there were just too many people living on top of each other and being rather nasty to each other most of the time. ...blowing each other away on the freeways... it was getting uglier all the time...
HEY! (off topic) Our creek is running!! I gardened while listening to it today! I love Oregon. :approve:
actually i like florida, it is of tropical climate, but i fear hurricane and flood.
which city has 99% christians and most churches?
Gokul43201
Oct20-04, 07:06 PM
which city has 99% christians and most churches?
Hayden Lake, Idaho :biggrin:
Hayden Lake, Idaho :biggrin:
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
which city has 99% christians and most churches?
Rome? (Italy - not New York) :biggrin:
actually i like florida, it is of tropical climate, but i fear hurricane and flood.
which city has 99% christians and most churches?
The hurricanes (like everything in the states) is largely exagerated by the media, As long as you take the proper percautians you shouldn't have too much trouble.
Don't let gokul scare you away from snow, snow's great, I spend all year waiting for more snow :tongue2: .
Might I ask why you want to live in a town thats nearly 100% christian with lots of churches?
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Rome? (Italy - not New York) :biggrin:
Vatican City?
Vatican City?
There's only one church in that town. :rofl: :rofl:
p.s. what's a 'percausian'? (Did you mean 'precaution'?)
how about New Mexico? Are there cowboys shooting and fighting like in movie?
how about New Mexico? Are there cowboys shooting and fighting like in movie?
Highly doubt it.
which is the most EVIL city? LA?
franznietzsche
Oct21-04, 12:07 AM
which is the most EVIL city? LA?
Miami has a higher murder rate. LA really isn't that bad a place for the most part (at least not compared with many other places around the world). The areas more inland, off the coast get worse and worse as you go, but overall its not that bad. Expensive though.
You have some odd misconceptions about the US, or a very idiosyncratic sense of humour. I like it.
punjabi_monster
Oct21-04, 12:31 AM
Don't let gokul scare you away from snow, snow's great, I spend all year waiting for more snow :tongue2: .
In Calgary Canada, it snowed a few days ago, and now side walks have turned to ice, making it extremely difficult to walk. Snow can be fun if it isn't around for a long time and if the weather isn't extremely cold. :smile: lol.
Saint, I have to say I am surprised you want to move to the US, seeing as you havn't exactly spoken well of it in the past. Might I ask why you want to immigrate?
Saint, I have to say I am surprised you want to move to the US, seeing as you havn't exactly spoken well of it in the past. Might I ask why you want to immigrate?
I think US is a country that has better freedom/liberty than malaysia, human's right is more respected, and less racial discrimination.
Math Is Hard
Oct21-04, 02:23 AM
which is the most EVIL city? LA?
I think Las Vegas would upset you the most. Lots of in-your-face porn and prostitution. We keep it (a little) more discreet in L.A.
Gokul43201
Oct21-04, 02:32 AM
I think US is a country that has better freedom/liberty than malaysia, human's right is more respected, and less racial discrimination.
Phew...I thought you wanted to move because the cars are cheaper !
CloakNight
Oct21-04, 05:36 AM
Roughly $15,000.
$15,000 for a Honda Accord? Maybe a Honda Civic. Honda Accord will run over 20 grand.
johnnyICON
Oct27-04, 10:36 PM
To be able to do something you want do do, are passionate about, enjoy, what greater reward is there than that?
I would rather have that than tons of money.
But to have lots of money is to be able to do what you love to do with no boundaries... or that's how I feel. Of course I would like to say that money is nothing compared to all my dreams and aspirations, but in this life, to achieve my dreams and aspirations, I'll need a whole #$@# load =D.
Aaaannd.... I have absolutely no idea what this thread is about, I am just randomly posting.
johnnyICON
Oct27-04, 10:42 PM
Mmm to put a price on what I need right now.... 50G's to pay for my student loans :mad: + $5 for a McDeal meal
Math Is Hard
Oct27-04, 10:56 PM
All I want is a room somewhere, far away from the cold night air, with one enormous chair - oh, wouldn't it be loverly! (oh, yeah - and one more thing - I want to have 30 cats, 17 birds, and 15 dogs).
johnnyICON
Oct30-04, 09:14 AM
A lot of Chinese kids are spoiled. I've talked to quite a few kids that moved from Hong Kong. There parents will just buy them a new Porsche Boxster or BMW just like that. If you think that's not possible, head to Richmond, British Columbia. It's a city full of people from Hong Kong, and you'll definitely spot a 16-20 year old driving in a Lexus, BMW, Benz etc. I doubt Chinese kids spend as much money on clothing or food as American kids do though. They are rarely ever pressured into getting jobs early. Of course, I'm talking about Chinese kids in Canada, the only ones I've talked to.
I used to goto DeVry with a transfer student straight from Hong Kong. He had loads of money, his parents were paying for his tuition at DeVry which is roughly 15K CDN per year, not including expenses such as rent, food, etc. All the ETCETERAs would roughly be an additional 10K. I wondered how his parents could afford all this. I can say at that point in time I believed that his family had some hidden "family jewels" that was the source of his income, but I was completely wrong. His parents worked 28 hours / 8 days a week (exaggeration) doing small jobs like cleaning houses, schools, and you get the idea. They sent him to Canada to get a degree so that he could help them out.
From what I've seen, we asian kids just do not run off in our fancy car, but on the contrary we help our families, our parents, until their time has come to pass. Our parents invest in us so that we give back to them 2-fold. But, of course, there are always exceptions. Asians in BC would be one, but please, BC is not nearly the size of the United States.
JasonRox
Oct30-04, 10:40 AM
How many rich white boys is there?
Think about that.
You guys are pointing fingers at asians because your jealous. It's no wonder you guys voted for Harper the Plastic Face. Harper is a Asian/Immigrant hater too, and you both agree on something.
What's wrong with you people?
johnnyICON
Oct30-04, 01:13 PM
I'm asian buddy, and I was more on the disagreement side of asian's being spoiled.
If you take a trip east of BC, and hit Calgary or Edmonton, the majority of the upper class population is all caucasian.
JasonRox
Oct31-04, 01:07 AM
Your Asian, eh? :uhh:
...still jealous.
Dagenais
Oct31-04, 01:29 AM
I used to goto DeVry with a transfer student straight from Hong Kong. He had loads of money, his parents were paying for his tuition at DeVry which is roughly 15K CDN per year, not including expenses such as rent, food, etc. All the ETCETERAs would roughly be an additional 10K. I wondered how his parents could afford all this. I can say at that point in time I believed that his family had some hidden "family jewels" that was the source of his income, but I was completely wrong. His parents worked 28 hours / 8 days a week (exaggeration) doing small jobs like cleaning houses, schools, and you get the idea. They sent him to Canada to get a degree so that he could help them out.
From what I've seen, we asian kids just do not run off in our fancy car, but on the contrary we help our families, our parents, until their time has come to pass. Our parents invest in us so that we give back to them 2-fold. But, of course, there are always exceptions. Asians in BC would be one, but please, BC is not nearly the size of the United States.
I see the opposite in British Columbia. The kids there still help out their parents (family loyalty is a tradition). But odd jobs? Most of the kids' fathers are lawyers, doctors, executives of large companies or hard-working businessmen. A lot of parents are still in HK holding high-paid jobs.
B.C. isn't really the exception. There is a strong population of wealthy immigrants from Hong Kong in Toronto, Ontario too.
If you take a trip east of BC, and hit Calgary or Edmonton, the majority of the upper class population is all caucasian.
In Richmond, Burnaby, Vancouver, Coquitlam, Surrey (major cities in British Columbia), the majority of mini-mansions, custom built houses and fancy cars are owned by Asians. Head to Westwood, one of the richest neighborhoods in the province. The houses are huge. The majority of people who live there are of Asian descent.
Maybe you're right about Alberta, but not in British Columbia.
You guys are pointing fingers at asians because your jealous. It's no wonder you guys voted for Harper the Plastic Face. Harper is a Asian/Immigrant hater too, and you both agree on something.
I live in Quebec currently. But I lived in British Columbia for many years. I would never vote Harper. I don't think he's that bad though, he just made a stupid comment after losing an election.
I vote Liberal.
Dagenais
Oct31-04, 01:39 AM
Probably the north-central part, but then you have to deal with the freezing cold and meters of snow.
Pfffff! You Americans can't know the meaning of "cold." I live in Montreal, we have outdoor hockey rinks! Don't even walk outside without a toque (yes, " tuque" (http://www.webster.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=tuque), not "beanie" like the Americans call it!) and snow shoes!
In Montreal, we have "damn cold". You walk outside and instantly you say, "Damn! It's cold!" :surprised
johnnyICON
Oct31-04, 04:24 PM
Pfffff! You Americans can't know the meaning of "cold." I live in Montreal, we have outdoor hockey rinks! Don't even walk outside without a toque (yes, " tuque" (http://www.webster.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=tuque), not "beanie" like the Americans call it!) and snow shoes!
In Montreal, we have "damn cold". You walk outside and instantly you say, "Damn! It's cold!" :surprised
I grew in Manitoba, you want cold, Manitoba is cold. We've reached record lows so many years in a row. Negative 50 and lower (celsius) which makes me kind of glad I moved to Calgary. Winter here is like... wait.. what winter?
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