View Full Version : Your Favorite Number!!
Drakkith
Mar17-11, 07:42 PM
What is your favorite number?!?! And why??
Mines...umm...one of them...probably between 0 and several trillion...I can't decide.
But I'll just go with two. Why? Because thats the number of pop tarts in a pouch!
DaleSpam
Mar17-11, 07:44 PM
When people ask me to pick a number between 1 and 10 I always pick pi. Does that count?
Drakkith
Mar17-11, 07:46 PM
When people ask me to pick a number between 1 and 10 I always pick pi. Does that count?
Of course! But you better have cake in there somewhere...its my favorite.
Insanity
Mar17-11, 07:57 PM
\sqrt 7/9
why?
6(x) * 9(x) = 42
54x^2=42
x^2=42/54
x^2=7/9
x= \sqrt 7/9
Two. It's my number for relaxation. I read someone that said in order to relax pick a number and assign relaxation to it. Then whenever you're stressed think of the number.
Doesn't work. But 2 is still a cool number.
jhae2.718
Mar17-11, 07:58 PM
This is a tough one. Let's see, there's:
e, for obvious reasons
i, since \mathbb{C}^n is interesting
\pi, for its all-around significance
\varphi; I've always liked the Golden Ratio
\aleph_0
\frac{\pi^2}{6}, since it's a cool sum of \sum_{n=0}^{\infty} \frac{1}{n^2}
G, because of its gravity
k_e = \frac{1}{4\pi \epsilon_0} is rather electric
2, the only even prime
the set of perfect numbers
Too many...can't decide.
Drakkith
Mar17-11, 08:03 PM
Haha, i KNEW i'd get some great replies like these. :biggrin:
jhae2.718
Mar17-11, 08:04 PM
Can't believe I forgot 42.
hypatia
Mar17-11, 08:15 PM
27, only because of the odd amount of times it shows up in my life.
jhae2.718
Mar17-11, 08:23 PM
I also like:
Eddington's number, 15,747,724,136,275,002,577,605,653,961,181,555,468 ,044,717,914,527,116,709,366,231,425,076,185,631,0 31,296
Graham's number, g64
The xkcd number, A(g64,g64), where A is the Ackermann function
This is a tough one. Let's see, there's:
e, for obvious reasons
i, since \mathbb{C}^n is interesting
\pi, for its all-around significance
\varphi; I've always liked the Golden Ratio
\aleph_0
\frac{\pi^2}{6}, since it's a cool sum of \sum_{n=0}^{\infty} \frac{1}{n^2}
G, because of its gravity
k_e = \frac{1}{4\pi \epsilon_0} is rather electric
2, the only even prime
the set of perfect numbers
Too many...can't decide.
This is so great <3
Drakkith
Mar17-11, 08:37 PM
This is a tough one. Let's see, there's:
e, for obvious reasons
i, since \mathbb{C}^n is interesting
\pi, for its all-around significance
\varphi; I've always liked the Golden Ratio
\aleph_0
\frac{\pi^2}{6}, since it's a cool sum of \sum_{n=0}^{\infty} \frac{1}{n^2}
G, because of its gravity
k_e = \frac{1}{4\pi \epsilon_0} is rather electric
2, the only even prime
the set of perfect numbers
Too many...can't decide.
I feel kinda bad that I don't understand most of this lol.
That's what makes it so great :biggrin:
Jimmy Snyder
Mar17-11, 08:39 PM
13 is my most favorite number. I've pretty much got that one to myself. In fact I have a bunch of favorite numbers, and 13 is the smallest one. So, in addition to being my most favorite number, it is also my least favorite number.
I like 4. Diagrammatically, it is very symmetrical. It is composed of 2 2's, which is a plus. It scales up easily with 8, 12, 16, 20, 24...
When I was learning how to count, and later to appreciate and manipulate numbers, 4 was my favorite. I don't know why.
Insanity
Mar17-11, 08:40 PM
6_{13} * 9_{13} = 42_{13}
but that is incorrect, hence \sqrt 7/9
I like 4. Diagrammatically, it is very symmetrical. It is composed of 2 2's, which is a plus. It scales up easily with 8, 12, 16, 20, 24...
When I was learning how to count, and later to appreciate and manipulate numbers, 4 was my favorite. I don't know why.
I don't really have a favorite, but I've always liked 9 for much the same reasons you like 4.
I can't decide between mine but pi is very special to me, I also love the square root of 2.
jhae2.718
Mar17-11, 09:09 PM
...I also love the square root of 2.
Don't tell that to the Pythagoreans.
jhae2.718
Mar17-11, 09:40 PM
don't tell that to the pythagoreans.
33202
Proton Soup
Mar17-11, 11:31 PM
i have a weekness for 7
Ivan Seeking
Mar17-11, 11:31 PM
h
Everything interesting has an h in it.
jhae2.718
Mar17-11, 11:32 PM
Also \hbar, \quad \epsilon_0, \quad \mu_0
Ivan Seeking
Mar17-11, 11:39 PM
Gotta love googolplex.
jhae2.718
Mar17-11, 11:45 PM
This thread has the potential for a lot of answers, so let's just say:
x:\forall x \in \mathbb{C}^n
(Hopefully some mathematician here can point out what the largest set is if I'm wrong.)
KrisOhn
Mar18-11, 12:05 AM
5.39\times10^{-44}
5.39\times10^{-44}
Ah yes and this reminds me of 6.02 x 10^23 <3 beautiful in more ways than one!
Infinity because it isn't one despite maths. :)
I like watching people trying to put the infinite and indefinite in a box, the mental masturbation alone makes infinity fascinating.
That and transcendentals like [tex]\pi\;\;\;\; e^x\;\; \sqrt {2}[/itex] etc which just never stop.
Dembadon
Mar18-11, 01:08 AM
My favorite number is 0, and my second favorite number is 1.
Oh, and eleventy.
Ivan Seeking
Mar18-11, 01:09 AM
I like watching people trying to put the infinite in a box, the mental masturbation alone makes infinity fascinating.
Favorite cardinality?
Favorite cardinality?
Not really got one as cardinality is a property again not really a number.
Although I have a fondness for aleph pi just because it looks nice, I genuinely have no idea what its cardinality is except its greater than the preceding ones, allegedly. :smile:
Of course it isn't really but axioms are fun. If we say infinity is bigger than infinity then it is I think is how it works. I personally think of infinity at least in reality as all there is, because it stops brain matter from leaking out of my ears too much and is practical.
Ivan Seeking
Mar18-11, 01:54 AM
Not really got one as cardinality is a property again not really a number.
Aleph numbers are not numbers?
Of course it isn't really but axioms are fun. If we say infinity is bigger than infinity then it is I think is how it works. I personally think of infinity at least in reality as all there is, because it stops brain matter from leaking out of my ears too much and is practical.
Well, obviously, if you want to understand set theory, the last thing you want to do is think.
Aleph numbers are not numbers?
No infinity isn't numerable I started a thread on it. Infinity is unbound merely defining it makes it bound to a particular symbol not to an actual infinity. Whilst this flies in pure maths outside of it it is ultimately pointless. Because the definition is false and the axiom is questionable at best. Of course if we accept it is true then it works, but I don't think philosophically you can.
Philosobabble you might want to give it a miss. :tongue:
I don't think anyone can conceive of the infinity or represent it without an allusion which makes the definition non constructive and without any terms as well as useless. But its just an opinion.
Well, obviously, if you want to understand set theory, the last thing you want to do is think.
That's extremely patronising and condescending, well done.
You don't know me and you know nothing about me so please don't judge me, you'll just end up looking like an ***.
Ivan Seeking
Mar18-11, 02:08 AM
Philosobabble you might want to give it a miss. :tongue:
I think so. :biggrin:
I don't think anyone can conceive of the infinity or represent it without an allusion which makes the definition non constructive and without any terms as well as useless. But its just an opinion.
the infinities...
"Can't conceive", I'll buy; "can't represent" is a bit of a contradiction here. I'm pretty sure mathematicians have managed to represent them precisely.
I think so. :biggrin:
the infinities...
"Can't conceive", I'll buy; "can't represent" is a bit of a contradiction here. I'm pretty sure mathematicians have managed to represent them precisely.
Ok show me infinity.
And don't say aleph 0, that is not an infinity any more than a property defines existence ie cardinality.
It is a completely non constructive proof that cannot be proved outside of itself and that no one really thinks about these days. Which in laymens terms means its pretty much only inductively provable and has no application to anything and never will.
Kant would of laughed.
Its a circular axiom how can something which cannot be defined that is more than the universe be defined and have any use? Sure you could take a photo of a fairy but would that mean the fairy was real or that you just used little cardboard fairy cut outs to make it look like they were real.
Bit of a derail take it to the thread if you want to discuss it further. Its an ontological issue and therefore its epistemology is arguable.
It's also not a new argument and has been going on for thousands of years.
Pythagorean
Mar18-11, 02:12 AM
Don't tell that to the Pythagoreans.
:devil: :mad: :bugeye:
My favorite number is 0, and my second favorite number is 1.
Oh, and eleventy.
What about twelvty the number of precious things in the shop?
Nice round number that.
Ivan Seeking
Mar18-11, 02:24 AM
ok show me infinity.
1, 2, 3...
Oh, and eleventy.
:rofl: and beventeen :tongue2:
1, 2, 3...
That's symbolic. Really should take this to the thread because its a bit of a derail. I'd be happy to discuss it with you there but I'll leave you with this:
Can you draw a perfect circle even with a computer program?
How would you measure it was perfectly in proportion to pi?
is 3.141... = pi? Or is it an approximation.
Using calculus show me how pi = pi?
Now using transfinities, or aleph numbers in number theory, as limits, show me how the area under the graph is larger or smaller than pi if it is a decimal, and if it is a fraction?
How can you diagonalise a concept that cannot be defined in discrete steps?
How can you utilise something that is more than a limit to reality?
What exists outside of time and space?
How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?
How can you define god?
:rofl: and beventeen :tongue2:
Squillions is my personal fave.
And umumloads.
SEVENTEEN !!!!
Where things happen in seventeens, or things are divisible by or are multiples of seventeen, then this is both a manifestation of and evidence of the Creator's handiwork. In the number seventeen, we find the most aesthetic satisfaction.
There are 17 wallpaper symmetry groups.
A sattelite in the lowest possible orbit will circle the Earth 17 times per day.
The mass of Neptune is 17 times that of the Earth.
There are 17 sylabbles in a haiku poem.
The cicada has a seventeen year life cycle.
One day it will be proven that the universe has 17 dimensions.
I am looking for a soulmate, but only if she's 17.
If anyone knows something about 17, let me know.
Jimmy Snyder
Mar18-11, 03:36 AM
Squillions is my personal fave.
And umumloads.
Brazilians are nice.
Squillions is my personal fave.
And umumloads.
LOLOL I've never heard of umumloads...instant favorite :biggrin:
If anyone knows something about 17, let me know.
It is inferior to beventeen
LOLOL I've never heard of umumloads...instant favorite :biggrin:
It is inferior to beventeen
It's not as perfectly square as twelvty though. Although in number theory beventeen is considered the highest order transdefinite number between at least some and lots.
Some people claim you can have more than lots or even umumloads the highest cardinal nondefinite numeration, but they are just idiots, more than lots what like squillionsgajillions+zillions that's just the same as saying umumloads please, idiots. :rolleyes:
:rofl: Caldrid you are killing me! How can I now focus on my illogical English assignment?
:rofl: Caldrid you are killing me! How can I now focus on my illogical English assignment?
Pfft how can you be doing English when I am handing you the secrets of the Universe.
Peasant! :wink:
It's probably illogical because you don't understand twelvty properly anyway. Couldn't hurt..?
epenguin
Mar18-11, 05:35 AM
Believe it or not, and I am not sure I do, I saw a few years ago a taxi in London with registration plate TXI 1729.
EntropicLove
Mar18-11, 05:36 AM
What a great thread topic:
Mine is 6 haha OR inifinity
My favorite numbers are
0, because we express a number as infinitely big with infinity but it isn't really a real number, and something as infinitely small (positive) as a zero which is a real number,
and 42, because it is the answer to the universe according to Hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy.
jhae2.718
Mar18-11, 08:35 AM
Maybe 2701?
Dembadon
Mar18-11, 10:20 AM
[...]
It's probably illogical because you don't understand twelvty properly anyway. Couldn't hurt..?
One must first investigate the properties of eleventy before concerning oneself with twelvty.
Favorite: 1729.03
Reason: Richard Feynman's great story about his duel against an abacus wielding Thai.
Second favorite: 42
Reason: Same reason Lewis Carroll liked that number - gravity trains! Even though the concept couldn't possibly work, Carroll liked that number so much that it appears over and over in his "Alice" books.
Ivan Seeking
Mar18-11, 11:52 AM
That's symbolic. Really should take this to the thread because its a bit of a derail. I'd be happy to discuss it with you there but I'll leave you with this:
I [and you] said "represent". Yes, I can represent all sorts of concepts with symbols, including infinity.
1, 2, 3... is an exact representation.
cobalt124
Mar18-11, 01:16 PM
3, don't know why. And any measuring number my wife uses in her (delicious) recipies - "a little", "not too much", "enough", "some".....
nucleargirl
Mar18-11, 02:48 PM
I like 3 too! and 5! my faves :)
Char. Limit
Mar18-11, 03:43 PM
37 is the best number of all time!
Drakkith
Mar18-11, 03:47 PM
4.468x10^9
Char. Limit
Mar18-11, 03:47 PM
Actually, I want to change my number to a number with units...
3,000,000 posts :biggrin:
Pfft how can you be doing English when I am handing you the secrets of the Universe.
Peasant! :wink:
It's probably illogical because you don't understand twelvty properly anyway. Couldn't hurt..?
Forgive me! Please show me the way. *humbles self*
I think three and five are cool also nuclear girl :)
jhae2.718
Mar18-11, 03:54 PM
47, the quintessential random number.
jhae2.718
Mar18-11, 03:58 PM
This thread has the potential to be a treasure of geek references.
I [and you] said "represent". Yes, I can represent all sorts of concepts with symbols, including infinity.
1, 2, 3... is an exact representation.
No it isn't.
Are you telling me that represents exactly all the numbers up to infinity.
Lol
I think you need to study philosophy a little if you remotely think that pi = 3.141... or that aleph 0 exactly represents all the whole numbers that can be counted in an infinite amount of time and perhaps calculus.
Just repeating yourself doesn't make it true.
You can put it in a bigger font and change the colour if you like. You are human you cannot conceive of something that your brain cannot imagine because of physical laws that prohibit infinity. Get used to it. Nothing changes your limits any more than the value of pi can never be represented or measured to the infinite degree of accuracy. You are asymptotically bound to that which can exist. Beyond that which can exist is trite therefore, when you can barely comprehend that which can, let alone the limit to which it approaches.
the value of pi can never be represented or measured to the infinite degree of accuracy
Symbol π represents value of pi with infinite degree of accuracy.
We will be never able to express this value in a positional system, but that's completely different problem.
Symbol π represents value of pi with infinite degree of accuracy.
We will be never able to express this value in a positional system, but that's completely different problem.
You used the word represent it is not a photograph of pi to infinite decimals now is it it is an analogy. Or are you claiming it is? I don't know I've heard worse nonsense from people.
D the letter is exactly represented as far as I can tell by D. Pi however cannot be visually or mentally represented to all its places it can only be approximated with a symbol we call pi.
Tell you what you start representing pi to all its decimal places now and then at t=infinity when you're done I'll give you a medal, hell I'm feeling generous how about a bajillion pounds. Or perhaps twelvty beventeen cookies.
Are you trying to tell us that symbol 2 doesn't exactly represent number 2 to infinite decimals?
Metaleer
Mar19-11, 05:39 AM
I don't see what the problem is. Some usual definitions of \pi involve a limit, and when you write down a converging limit, you automatically define all of its infinite decimals.
It isn't relevant that it can't be visually or mentally represented to all of its decimal places, this is why we have limits and infinite series and continued fractions..., so when a mathematician writes down \pi, he means exactly this, not an approximation, not a mental truncation.
Are you trying to tell us that symbol 2 doesn't exactly represent number 2 to infinite decimals?
Lol I'm not even going to bother replying to that.
Do you want to move this to an appropriate thread, because this is really just spam. There is a thread on this subject.
I don't see what the problem is. Some usual definitions of \pi involve a limit, and when you write down a converging limit, you automatically define all of its infinite decimals.
It isn't relevant that it can't be visually or mentally represented to all of its decimal places, this is why we have limits and infinite series and continued fractions..., so when a mathematician writes down \pi, he means exactly this, not an approximation, not a mental truncation.
It's not actually infinity though is it, its just something you pulled out of your ***, by definition uncountable means not able to be counted or numerable, using mathematical arguments on the uncountable is a waste of time unless you call it something else its popycock. aleph 0 is no more an infinity than God is black is a valid argument. You can conceive of neither.
You can't define infinity precisely any more than you can God you can only allude to it, to even try is sophistry at best and outright delusion at worst.
I wouldn't mind but mathemeticians have large enough egos as it is lets face it they think they are special because they are good at maths. Being able to conceive of the inconceivable places them in a position where they are gods though and I find that humerous. If you are going to use a term at least make it something that remotely approaches what you are trying to describe, cause no matter how close you get to it it is always infinitely far away. Such a concept being countable or even countable as Cantor describes it makes a mockery of the whole definition.
"There are only two infinities: The Universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the first one."
The conceit is colossal isn't it really. And just what you'd expect from a field with very, very, very oversized egos, in fact infinitely large egos apparently, since their minds can grasp infinity and conceptualise it, even visualise it. :wink:
As an axiom it is only consistent with itself, which is fine, the terms though are not infinities there is a definition problem there.
What they should say is if we take this as actually representing the infinity of all numbers then it is not possible to diagonalise it given the lifespan of the universe without skipping all the steps in between and hence not really either deductively or inductively defining it.
What instead we have is a non constructive proof, based on terms we cannot define we are claiming we can.
Now this is ok but why use the term infinity for something it is not? Why use such a contentious term? I think I know why its again an ego issue. Perhaps not with Cantor, but with people who claim to have seen or grasped the infinite, they haven't but they will of course claim the impossible, because it flatters them to think they can achieve that which cannot be done, even by God and that is define something that is greater than the infinite or God.
Cantor makes the distinction between actually infinite and aleph 0 quite clear, most mathematicians though would rather die than admit it isn't really infinite at all.
Jimmy Snyder
Mar19-11, 06:26 AM
\pi is the ratio of the circumference of a circle to its diameter. You represent it everytime you draw a circle, no matter how crude.
\pi is the ratio of the circumference of a circle to its diameter. You represent it everytime you draw a circle, no matter how crude.
You represent it is the key word but you cannot measure its accuracy to infinite places though can you. Or can you? Do you think you can?
In fact you couldn't even measure if it approached pi to 1000 decimal places let alone a million or infinite decimal places.
This is no more a pictorial representation of pi than the wave function is a pictorial representation of the photon. That cannot be known either.
A circle is a representation of C=2\pi{r} it can by definition though only be represented approximately, no matter how precise your tools are it is impossible to measure anything with infinite places to infinite places.
It is not possible to draw a perfect circle.
Jimmy Snyder
Mar19-11, 06:52 AM
No it isn't.
Are you telling me that represents exactly all the numbers up to infinity.
Lol
I think you need to study philosophy a little if you remotely think that pi = 3.141... or that aleph 0 exactly represents all the whole numbers that can be counted in an infinite amount of time and perhaps calculus.
Just repeating yourself doesn't make it true.
You can put it in a bigger font and change the colour if you like. You are human you cannot conceive of something that your brain cannot imagine because of physical laws that prohibit infinity. Get used to it. Nothing changes your limits any more than the value of pi can never be represented or measured to the infinite degree of accuracy. You are asymptotically bound to that which can exist. Beyond that which can exist is trite therefore, when you can barely comprehend that which can, let alone the limit to which it approaches.
You represent it is the key word but you cannot measure its accuracy to infinite places though can you. Or can you? Do you think you can?
In fact you couldn't even measure if it approached pi to 1000 decimal places let alone a million or infinite decimal places.
This is no more a pictorial representation of pi than the wave function is a pictorial representation of the photon. That cannot be known either.
A circle is a representation of C=2\pi{r} it can by definition though only be represented approximately, no matter how precise your tools are it is impossible to measure anything with infinite places to infinite places.
It is not possible to draw a perfect circle.
Can you explain the bolded parts to me in fewer words?
Pythagorean
Mar19-11, 06:55 AM
42
(message was too short, so hi)
Jimmy Snyder
Mar19-11, 07:24 AM
I think that there is some confusion here about the difference between math and physics. Physics is the science of measurement. Representation of ideas in mathematics is divorced from physical measurements.
On another point, it occurs to me that in the Reimann sphere, the north pole represents infinity quite nicely.
So you're saying π isn't your favorite number?
"There are only two infinities: The Universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the first one."
Well, I imagine there's also an infinite number of numbers that aren't your favorite number, which means this thread is going to get infinitely long?
Can you explain the bolded parts to me in fewer words?
If you take the question to the thread which I started that is now in general I will be prepared to elaborate at length.
This will do though:
a. To stand for; symbolize: The bald eagle represents the United States.
b. To indicate or communicate by signs or symbols: Letters of the alphabet represent sounds.
2.
a. To depict in art; portray.
b. To describe or present in words; set forth.
3. To present clearly to the mind.
4. To draw attention to by way of remonstrance or protest: Our parents represented to us the need for greater caution.
5. To describe or put forward (a person or thing) as an embodiment of a specified quality.
6.
a. To serve as the official and authorized delegate or agent for.
b. To act as a spokesperson for.
7. To serve as an example of: The museum had several paintings representing the artist's early style.
8. To be the equivalent of.
9.
a. To stage (a play, for example); produce.
b. To act the part or role of.
What you have is a description of something that you cannot perceive portrayed in a manner you actually can or at least think you can but they are not epistemologically the same thing, one is based on a property, the other is an actual unbound unquantifiable entity; the maths infinite and the infinite everyone else uses and actually always has are not the same thing.
Perception of the infinite regardless of how you want to dress it up is impossible in any definition maths or otherwise we can only allude to it or approach it asymptotically. You can either conceive of the infinite or you can't, you trust me can not. if you cannot conceive of it but only use the argument that property denotes existence then you are on pretty shaky ground in terms of definition, that would not even be a non constructive proof it would actually be a non sequitur; just because something has a property does not mean it exists, likewise it does not make it something that you can define either.
God doesn't exist because he is the greatest thing you can imagine any more than aleph omega exists because it is the greatest cardinality. What's more you can't even comprehend the terms in the definition without infinite capacity in your mind any way which makes this all rather philosophically tenuous at best. Certainly doesn't make these axioms in any way provable without asserting they exist as x therefore they must exist, whether they are infinite or not is of course to a mathmetician beside the point. But I happen to think its important.
What I said about the correct thread goes the same here too.
I think that there is some confusion here about the difference between math and physics. Physics is the science of measurement. Representation of ideas in mathematics is divorced from physical measurements.
On another point, it occurs to me that in the Reimann sphere, the north pole represents infinity quite nicely.
Not really
You can't represent infinity in your mind any more than you can on paper, what you can do though is pretend you can.
If you can encompass that which is beyond count and not just that that which is beyond even that in your mind though, great, you have done what no one else could ever do not even God. whether you call it the set of all numbers or spaszkar it still doesn't make aleph either conceptually the same as an infinity or physically the same. There are actual infinities conceptual or real and or physical and then there are those fake infinities that are allusions to infinity that maths bods use, they are not the same thing. Something Cantor himself pointed out at some length. Just how many angels can dance on the head of a pin anyway?
Call it a Reimann sphere call it whatever you like it still isn't conceivable infinitely it is again another sort of allusion one that cannot be demonstrated given the finite nature of reality in any form except as a tenuous analogy at best.
Ok I'm not answering any more questions in this thread so don't bother asking them, take it to the apt thread or don't.
Closed pending moderation. This thead has gone off topic. It is about your favorite number.
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