Analyzing the Motion of a Jumping Spring: Tips and Techniques

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the analysis of the motion of a spring that is initially compressed against a wall and then released. Participants explore the dynamics of the spring's motion, including its expansion and contraction, and the conditions under which it loses contact with the wall. The conversation touches on theoretical aspects, mathematical modeling, and practical problem-solving techniques.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant inquires about resources for analyzing the motion of a spring when released from a compressed state against a wall.
  • Another suggests using conservation of energy principles, specifically kinetic and spring potential energy, to analyze the motion.
  • Questions arise about the specific conditions under which the spring loses contact with the wall, with one participant asking for clarification on the speed of the spring's center of mass at that moment.
  • A participant notes that the problem is complex due to the mass distribution along the length of a real spring and recommends starting with simpler scenarios involving massless springs.
  • Some participants express skepticism about the feasibility of solving the original problem, with one asserting it may be impossible without first understanding simpler cases.
  • Discussion includes the distinction between horizontal and vertical configurations of the spring, with implications for how it loses contact with the wall.
  • There is a reference to a mathematical relationship involving the spring's unstretched length and axial wave velocity, suggesting a more complex analysis for vertical springs.
  • Participants question the existence of a straightforward solution using standard equations of motion for springs.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the solution to the problem. There are competing views on the complexity of the problem and the necessity of understanding simpler cases before tackling the original question.

Contextual Notes

Some participants express uncertainty regarding the mathematical and physical knowledge required to approach the problem, indicating that assumptions about the spring's configuration and mass distribution significantly affect the analysis.

luckis11
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A spring is pushed against the ground (or against the wall) and then left free to move. So, besides its motion as a traveling object, it also contracts and expands. Where can I find this motion analysis?
 
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hi luckis11! :smile:
luckis11 said:
… Where can I find this motion analysis?

you'll find plenty of threads on it here …

use conservation of energy (kinetic energy + spring potential energy) :wink:
 
What do you mean "on it"? I'll find there the case of my question?
 
luckis11 said:
What do you mean "on it"? I'll find there the case of my question?

similar cases :wink:

try conservation of energy … what do you get? :smile:
 
At what expansion will it lose contact with the wall?
 
show us how far you've got, and where you're stuck, and then we'll know how to help! :smile:
 
I am stuck here:

The speed of the spring (the spring=? I guess the centre of the mass of the spring) that will have just after losing contact with the wall is the last speed of the centre of the mass of the spring that it had just before it lost contact with the wall?
 
This is actually a hard problem to solve, if you are talking about a "real" spring where the mass is distributed along the length of the spring.

I suggest you start with two easier problems:

1. A massless spring, with one end pushed against the ground and a mass on the other end.

2. The same as #1, but with equal masses on each end of the spring.
 
You tell me to change my problem? That's a joke I guess.

Ι BET that it's not hard, but impossible.
 
  • #10
luckis11 said:
You tell me to change my problem? That's a joke I guess.
No, it's not a joke. If you don't know how to solve those easier problems, you don't know enough to understand a solution of your problem even if we told you how to do it.

If you can solve the second one correctly for a vertical spring and including gravity, then you will know WHY your problem is hard.

Ι BET that it's not hard, but impossible.
No, it's not impossible.
 
  • #11
A hand pushes it against the wall and then let it free. No mass attached.

At what expansion will it lose contact with the wall?
 
  • #12
luckis11 said:
A hand pushes it against the wall and then let it free. No mass attached.

At what expansion will it lose contact with the wall?

If the spring is horizontal it will lose contact with the wall when it is at its unstretched length, at time L/c, where L is the length and c is the axial wave velocity in the spring. [itex]c^2 = E/\rho[/itex] where [itex]E[/itex] is the elastic modulus and [itex]\rho[/itex] is the density (assuming the spring is "smeared out" into a uniform material)

If it is vertical the situation is more complicated because of the weight of the spring. When it leaves the ground it will not be uniformly stretched. If it is only compressed a small amount it may not leave the ground at all.

You haven't given us any clues about how much math and physics you know already, so I'm not going to try to explain why that is the answer.
 
  • #13
Where's that solution?

Should't there be a solution with the usual mdu/dt=kx? I think it should.
 
  • #14

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