Is a Draft the Solution to the Soldier Shortage?

[Ivan Seeking]

Stop loss orders are a back door draft. Clearly there is a shortage of soldiers.

In fact, IIRC, Bush was just as certain that Saddam had stockpiles of WMDs, that the war would be quick, and that the war was already won, long ago.

 

[wasteofo2]

Stop loss orders are a back door draft. Clearly there is a shortage of soldiers.

In fact, IIRC, Bush was just as certain that Saddam had stockpiles of WMDs, that the war would be quick, and that the war was already won, long ago.

May 1, 2003, I believe, was the date at which he announced "Major combat operations in Iraq have ended".

I can just picture it in 2007.

"Mr. Bush, you said in 2004 that you would not re-institute the draft, but you just did this past week, how can you justify this?"

"I was just going on what the BEST INTELLIGENCE said at the time. All the intelligence agencies of the world agreed, things were going great in Iraq, the POLLS even said so. How was I supposed to know that things were actually going bad? Plus, things have changed in the world since September 11th, we were attacked, and we need to go and defeat the enemy"

 

[check]

"I was just going on what the BEST INTELLIGENCE said at the time. All the intelligence agencies of the world agreed, things were going great in Iraq, the POLLS even said so. How was I supposed to know that things were actually going bad? Plus, things have changed in the world since September 11th, we were attacked, and we need to go and defeat the enemy"

Well, that sounds ALMOST right. I think this would be more accurate:

"Uh...boy..it's hard to come up with an answer with...uh...all the pressure here...but um...I was going on what the BEST INT-ELL-I-GENCE said at the time. All the in-tell-i-gence uh...agencies of the world disagreed, things were going great in Iraq...and...what? oh, AGREED! Let me restate that: the intelligence agencies of the world AGREED..and uh, the POLLS even said that. Ya know things have changed in the world since uh.. September 11th, we were attacked, and we need to go and defeat those enemy folks...and uh...ya know, we can't get fooled again!"

 

[kat]

I think Kerry would be more likely to institute a draft then Bush. I also think the re-ups will drop considerably if Kerry becomes president. Those I know in the military are VERY concerned, very worried that Kerry may become their commander in chief.
Kerry is calling for a minimum of 40k more troops in Iraq. Where is he suggesting they come from?

 

[Ivan Seeking]

They only know the lies they are told.

 

[onegermanbeerglass]

I've been coming down fairly heavily in Bush's favor on this site, so let me shift myself back toward the center here and debunk this.

First, Kerry is claiming he'll increase military recruitment by 40,000 total, not 40,000 for Iraq. In fact, he claims he would reduce the number of soldier in Iraq, as early as 6 months after taking office.

Secondly, this could be done by reducing the avctive duty roster by pulling out of major involvements, thus diminishing the threats and liklihood of going into combat. This typically increases the military rosters and boosts recruitment.

Additionally, Kerry would likely, if sincere about this 40,000 goal, increase the benefits provided, like education funding and wages, for volunteers.

These are viable options. Some may be expensive and you'll have to weigh your personal opinion about US military involvement in the world to assess how you feel about wihtdrawal from major involvements.

I do have to say this in Bush's defense though.

There have been 2 bills introduced to reinstate the draft during this administration. Both were introduced and authored by democrats. Though in their defense, many say this was a political scare tactic to make people start thinking about and talking about it.

 

[onegermanbeerglass]

They only know the lies they are told.

Nothing Kat said was a lie. She only stated questions, which cannot be lies, opinions, which aren't likely to be lies, and facts which are supported by John Kerry's website.

 

[wasteofo2]

I've been coming down fairly heavily in Bush's favor on this site, so let me shift myself back toward the center here and debunk this.

First, Kerry is claiming he'll increase military recruitment by 40,000 total, not 40,000 for Iraq. In fact, he claims he would reduce the number of soldier in Iraq, as early as 6 months after taking office.

He hasn't said he would definitely, he's said he hopes he can with his policies.

Nothing Kat said was a lie. She only stated questions, which cannot be lies, opinions, which aren't likely to be lies, and facts which are supported by John Kerry's website.

Ivan wasn't saying Kat was lying. Kat said the military supports Bush. Ivan said they've been lied to by Bush and his appointees, and that they have been lied to by the military etc.

 

[kat]

He hasn't said he would definitely, he's said he hopes he can with his policies.



Kat said the military supports Bush. .

I did NOT say that. WHen I need you to speak for me, I'll ask. Until then stop putting words into my mouth!

 

[onegermanbeerglass]

The latter I interpretted differently (no inflection in the written word).

As for the prior, I never suggested he said he definitely would. Key words are, "as early as."

That's two of mine you've replied to in a row without reading thoroughly.

 

[wasteofo2]

I did NOT say that. WHen I need you to speak for me, I'll ask. Until then stop putting words into my mouth!

Lo siento senora.

You said the military people you know are scared of the prospect that Kerry might be the Commander in Chief. I made the logical jump that you were asserting that the military did NOT want Kerry to get elected. Since George Bush is the other presidential nominee, I then made a relatively small leap of faith to say that you were claiming, the military supported Bush.

 

[kat]

Lo siento senora.

You said the military people you know are scared of the prospect that Kerry might be the Commander in Chief. I made the logical jump that you were asserting that the military did NOT want Kerry to get elected. Since George Bush is the other presidential nominee, I then made a relatively small leap of faith to say that you were claiming, the military supported Bush.

You can make all the jumps you want, but I said what I meant and I carefully thought it out before I said it. Don't put words in my mouth. If you want to repeat what I say then quote me so that it's accurate.

I would not assume to present "those I know" as the military in it's entirety. If I wanted to speak of who the "military supported" I would have given facts and figures.

The military could be rather apathetic about Bush and still be concerned about Kerry...or they could be equally concerned about either but since that is not what I was speaking of it's irrelevant in the context of anything I've said. You do this all the time and it makes for a very poor dialogue.

 

[russ_watters]

Stop loss orders are a back door draft. Clearly there is a shortage of soldiers.

This is another issue that the Democratic party (not just Kerry) is playing a dangerous game with and losing: they are "back door" pushing the idea of a draft to try to pin it on Bush. Trouble is - people see that its the Democrats pushing the issue, not Bush. Another miscalculation, another backfire.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Washington -- Sen. Chuck Hagel, a Vietnam War veteran and influential member of the Foreign Relations Committee, wants the United States to consider reviving the draft as part of a broader effort to ensure that all Americans "bear some responsibility ... pay some price" in defending the nation's interests. [continued]

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2004/04/22/MNGSK691H61.DTL

Here it comes...

If we hadn't invaded Iraq without any good reason we wouldn't need a draft now. So not only is Bush lying, this is his fault. He rushed to war.

I think the Bush campaign should be touting: Vote for us and die; not the other way around.

 

[franznietzsche]

There have been 2 bills introduced to reinstate the draft during this administration. Both were introduced and authored by democrats. Though in their defense, many say this was a political scare tactic to make people start thinking about and talking about it.

This makes it better how?

Oh they weren't serious, they were just trying to scare you, so its ok! Yay Democrats!

 

[kat]

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2004/04/22/MNGSK691H61.DTL

Here it comes...

If we hadn't invaded Iraq without any good reason we wouldn't need a draft now. So not only is Bush lying, this is his fault. He rushed to war.

I think the Bush campaign should be touting: Vote for us and die; not the other way around.

Are you high? A Democrat push for a draft is a Bush issue? You do realize that recruitment goals have already not only been met but exceeded for 2004? with 2 months of recruiting left to go? If there's a push for a draft, it's due to Kerry's support for national induction/volunteer agianst your will programs. But, this is good...Dem's should keep lying and pushing the draft like this...it really pisses people off who might have voted for Kerry otherwise. Keep up the good work Ivan!

 

[russ_watters]

Just more of the same - the Democrats/Kerry pushing divisive or controversial issues and not realizing they aren't helping them any. With Vietnam, they didn't expect the backlash they are getting and with the draft, they figure the people are too stupid to see that they are the ones pushing the issue. The Kerry is going to divide the country down the middle and find that he ended up with the smaller half.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Are you high? A Democrat push for a draft is a Bush issue? You do realize that recruitment goals have already not only been met but exceeded for 2004? with 2 months of recruiting left to go? If there's a push for a draft, it's due to Kerry's support for national induction/volunteer agianst your will programs. But, this is good...Dem's should keep lying and pushing the draft like this...it really pisses people off who might have voted for Kerry otherwise. Keep up the good work Ivan!

You see Kat, you might try reading the article first.

the Nebraska Republican

As for quotas, we are well below the needed numbers if you factor in Bush hosing the volunteers fighting his war - his stop loss betrayal; extending their stay in hell well beyond what anyone signed up for. Moral is already plummeting among many soldiers.

God forbid that we need to fight a real threat like N Korea.

When you people get your draft notice, make sure and send Bush a thank you letter for rushing to war virtually alone. Address the letter, Dear gun tote'n Cowboy...

Like father like son. His promises mean nothing.

 

[onegermanbeerglass]

Regardless of who wins the elections, their won't be a draft.

Too many people up there want to get re-elected.

Stop spinning the issue! And I mean that for you Republicans/supporters, as well as the Dems.

 

[russ_watters]

Ivan, really, really weak. Not only does it say explicitly in the article that he doesn't favor a draft, and you of course know that it is, in fact, Democrats who are pushing draft legislation, but the fact that you keep bringing the issue up undermines your own point!