Se7en [Archive] - Physics Forums

zoobyshoe

Jun17-11, 10:09 PM

I had to look up what the seven deadly sins were. They aren't sins at all, just character traits.

Yeah, I guess I should have listed them. The Seven Deadly Sins are:

Zoobyism
Seekingism
Evoism
Dangerism
Snyderism
Zapperism
DaveCP30ism

More or less. There's a lot of flux and shifting.

I'm going for something meatier. I'd give up murder.
Now you screwed up my hypothesis that people would choose the ones they don't consider that much fun anyway.

zoobyshoe

Jun17-11, 10:11 PM

What are the seven deadly sins?
Sloth, wrath, lust, gluttony, pride, envy, greed.

I don't even like the taste of sloth.
Exactly! It's a no-brainer.

HeLiXe

Jun17-11, 10:12 PM

Zoobyism
Seekingism
Evoism
Dangerism
Snyderism
Zapperism
DaveCP30ism

:rofl:

Sloth, wrath, lust, gluttony, pride, envy, greed.

Yes I was looking it up on wiki and edited my post probably as you were typing this

Ivan Seeking

Jun17-11, 10:24 PM

I gave up wrath when I resigned from the staff.

There's two. Lust? No way! Envy isn't an issue. Greed? I prefer to call it financial planning. Gluttony? Been on a diet for months now, but I reserve the right to gluttony two nights a week.

Pride? PLEASE!!! Try to run a business without taking pride in your work. Of the seven, I find this concept to be the most counterintuititive and self-defeating. Like mama always said, might as well toot your own horn cause no one is gonna toot it for you. I would change that one to arrogance. I'll send an email to the Pope about that one.

zoobyshoe

Jun17-11, 10:26 PM

Yes I was looking it up on wiki and edited my post probably as you were typing this

You made me look like an idiot, wounding my PRIDE, and now I feel WRATH toward you. Whoops!

Proton Soup

Jun17-11, 10:26 PM

Now you screwed up my hypothesis that people would choose the ones they don't consider that much fun anyway.

maybe he's either an outlier, or an out-and-out liar.

zoobyshoe

Jun17-11, 10:46 PM

Pride? PLEASE!!! Try to run a business without taking pride in your work. Of the seven, I find this concept to be the most counterintuititive and self-defeating. Like mama always said, might as well toot your own horn cause no one is gonna toot it for you. I would change that one to arrogance. I'll send an email to the Pope about that one.
The operative distinction is probably not between Pride and Arrogance, but between Pride and Confidence. Some Catholics used to take the injunction against pride to mean you should walk around hanging your head in shame, and should never assert yourself: "Blessed are the meek...". Pride as a deadly sin, though, would be evident in a situation where someone said something to the effect: "You can't talk to ME that way! Don't you know who I AM?" That sort of thing. I guess the concept would be narcissicm, in modern terms.

zoobyshoe

Jun17-11, 10:47 PM

maybe he's either an outlier, or an out-and-out liar.

Cold blooded killer. But he's going to try to cut back.

lisab

Jun17-11, 10:50 PM

The operative distinction is probably not between Pride and Arrogance, but between Pride and Confidence. Some Catholics used to take the injunction against pride to mean you should walk around hanging your head in shame, and should never assert yourself: "Blessed are the meek...". Pride as a deadly sin, though, would be evident in a situation where someone said something to the effect: "You can't talk to ME that way! Don't you know who I AM?" That sort of thing. I guess the concept would be narcissicm, in modern terms.

I agree. I always figured it meant 'vainglory'.

pergradus

Jun17-11, 10:58 PM

I think the seven deadly sins were conceived to help keep medieval European peasants complacent, what do you think?

lisab

Jun17-11, 11:02 PM

I think the seven deadly sins were conceived to help keep medieval European peasants complacent, what do you think?

You mean, like an opiate for the masses?

:devil:

zoobyshoe

Jun17-11, 11:03 PM

I agree. I always figured it meant 'vainglory'.

VAINGLORY (from Merriam-Websters)

"1: excessive or ostentatious pride especially in one's achievements
2: vain display or show : vanity"

Could well be, yes. According to a show I saw on The History Channel "sloth" was originally defined as what we would today recognize as psychiatric depression. A scary concept, but the point is the words don't necessarily mean today what they originally did.

HeLiXe

Jun17-11, 11:54 PM

You made me look like an idiot, wounding my PRIDE, and now I feel WRATH toward you. Whoops!
SINNER! :tongue2:
I gave up wrath when I resigned from the staff.

There's two. Lust? No way! Envy isn't an issue. Greed? I prefer to call it financial planning. Gluttony? Been on a diet for months now, but I reserve the right to gluttony two nights a week.

Pride? PLEASE!!! Try to run a business without taking pride in your work. Of the seven, I find this concept to be the most counterintuititive and self-defeating. Like mama always said, might as well toot your own horn cause no one is gonna toot it for you. I would change that one to arrogance. I'll send an email to the Pope about that one.
yeah too many points I agree with here to single them out.

HeLiXe

Jun17-11, 11:56 PM

VAINGLORY (from Merriam-Websters)

"1: excessive or ostentatious pride especially in one's achievements
2: vain display or show : vanity"

Could well be, yes. According to a show I saw on The History Channel "sloth" was originally defined as what we would today recognize as psychiatric depression. A scary concept, but the point is the words don't necessarily mean today what they originally did.

Ohhhh I guess I can't give up sloth then....and if I even attempt vainglory it always blows up in my face! I am quickly humbled -_-

zoobyshoe

Jun18-11, 01:32 AM

...if I even attempt vainglory it always blows up in my face! I am quickly humbled -_-

"Pride goeth before a fall." I'm not sure who said that but it was a long time ago, cause he said "goeth".

Jimmy Snyder

Jun18-11, 04:37 AM

Yeah, I guess I should have listed them. The Seven Deadly Sins are:

Zoobyism
Seekingism
Evoism
Dangerism
Snyderism
Zapperism
DaveCP30ism

I'm giving up on Snyderism.

arildno

Jun18-11, 05:16 AM

I ought to give up sloth, but I guess I'll give up pride instead.

zoobyshoe

Jun18-11, 05:34 AM

I ought to give up sloth, but I guess I'll give up pride instead.
Because?

arildno

Jun18-11, 05:53 AM

Because?
It is such a bother to give up sloth, I suppose.

Danger

Jun18-11, 06:11 AM

There is no such thing as "sin", so the question is irrelevant. "Sin" is a concept perpetrated by organized religions in order to control the penance (not behaviour) of the flock. As long as they continue to do it, more power to them... as long as they pay for it in the collection plate.

HeLiXe

Jun18-11, 08:32 AM

"Pride goeth before a fall." I'm not sure who said that but it was a long time ago, cause he said "goeth".

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

There is no such thing as "sin", so the question is irrelevant. "Sin" is a concept perpetrated by organized religions in order to control the penance (not behaviour) of the flock. As long as they continue to do it, more power to them... as long as they pay for it in the collection plate.

...so in other words we should all sin together and keep our money :biggrin: :biggrin: ;)

on an aside, I once learned that the word "sin" is an old anglo saxon word used in archery when the arrow did not hit target. I have to look that up to see if it is true.

Jimmy Snyder

Jun18-11, 08:37 AM

"Pride goeth before a fall." I'm not sure who said that but it was a long time ago, cause he said "goeth".
Sayeth thou.

BobG

Jun18-11, 09:03 AM

I had to look up what the seven deadly sins were. They aren't sins at all, just character traits. I'm going for something meatier. I'd give up murder.

This is true. The seven deadly sins aren't sins in themselves. They're considered to be the seven root causes of sin in general. If you substitute the corresponding virtue ( humility, charity, kindness, patience, chastity, temperance, and diligence) into your personality for the personality trait that causes you to do evil things, you become a better person.

So, there becomes two things to conisder. Zooby's question requires a person not only to be willing to give up one those personality traits, but they also have to consider that they'll have to take on one of the virtues in its place (since nature abhors a vacuum).

Worry not. There's a different list of seven deadly sins that includes your favorite. Solomon's list of deadly sins:

A proud look.
A lying tongue.
Hands that shed innocent blood.
A heart that devises wicked plots.
Feet that are swift to run into mischief.
A deceitful witness that uttereth lies.
Him that soweth discord among brethren.

Among the original sins/virtues, I think I'll go the other way. I want to give up chastity and take on lust in its place. I'll never give up psychiatric depression - especially if I have to replace it with diligence!

Jimmy Snyder

Jun18-11, 09:19 AM

Feet that are swift to run into mischief.

Like these feet?
Darwin hates sin. (http://www.jokeroo.com/videos/funny/foot-race-fail.html)

BobG

Jun18-11, 09:28 AM

Like these feet?
Darwin hates sin. (http://www.jokeroo.com/videos/funny/foot-race-fail.html)

More like these feet:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3V9kJw-kWQ8
3V9kJw-kWQ8

Notice how the diligence of the German sausage is rewarded with victory. And how the incident obviously incited such a high level of psychiatric depression that two women had to be treated at the first aid station.

I could watch this video over and over. I just love sausages! Especially Italian sausage!

And especially Italian sausage that's been assaulted by a pirate wearing a mustard uniform!

Pythagorean

Jun18-11, 12:22 PM

Wraith would be easiest

Ivan Seeking

Jun18-11, 01:32 PM

I guess the concept would be narcissicm, in modern terms.

Erotic pleasure derived from contemplation or admiration of one's own body or self?

Actually, that would be pretty convenient.

zoobyshoe

Jun18-11, 01:59 PM

Erotic pleasure derived from contemplation or admiration of one's own body or self?

No, I was thinking:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissism

Regardless, I think Lisa is right about vainglory being a better word for what is meant by pride in the list.

Ivan Seeking

Jun18-11, 02:03 PM

No, I was thinking:

So then you approve of the former?

Ivan Seeking

Jun18-11, 02:07 PM

From wiki

Some experts believe a disproportionate number of pathological narcissists are at work in the most influential reaches of society such as medicine, finance and politics

See the book, The Psychopath Test. According to the author, if you are a politician, you are four times more likely than the average person to be a psychopath.

zoobyshoe

Jun18-11, 02:29 PM

This is true. The seven deadly sins aren't sins in themselves. They're considered to be the seven root causes of sin in general. If you substitute the corresponding virtue ( humility, charity, kindness, patience, chastity, temperance, and diligence) into your personality for the personality trait that causes you to do evil things, you become a better person.

So, there becomes two things to conisder. Zooby's question requires a person not only to be willing to give up one those personality traits, but they also have to consider that they'll have to take on one of the virtues in its place (since nature abhors a vacuum).

Worry not. There's a different list of seven deadly sins that includes your favorite. Solomon's list of deadly sins:

A proud look.
A lying tongue.
Hands that shed innocent blood.
A heart that devises wicked plots.
Feet that are swift to run into mischief.
A deceitful witness that uttereth lies.
Him that soweth discord among brethren.

Among the original sins/virtues, I think I'll go the other way. I want to give up chastity and take on lust in its place. I'll never give up psychiatric depression - especially if I have to replace it with diligence!
In the movie, Summerset (Morgan Freeman), points out there's a whole long history to these concepts and advises Brad Pitt to research them to help understand the killer. Pitt gets the Cliff Notes. Sloth!

Sloth was, according to the History Channel, often called "Melancholia" in the list, the qualities of which (Melancholia) are often pointed out to be indistinguishable from today's clinical depression. That struck me as scary because when a depressed person gets fired up and diligent the result is mania. The Medievals didn't allow that an extreme behavior might be outside a persons free will. I wonder what they thought of Tourettes and OCD?

Personally I think physics demands sloth: conservation of energy.

zoobyshoe

Jun18-11, 02:48 PM

See the book, The Psychopath Test. According to the author, if you are a politician, you are four times more likely than the average person to be a psychopath.
I believe it. But the term "psychopath" conjures images of a guy in a wig killing girls in showers. I think "sociopath" is better for politicians. One article I read pointed out that there are degrees of sociopathy. My own observation is that there is a whole continuum of intelligence among socipaths, from the very stupid to the very brilliant. Those lower down in intelligence end up in prison, and those higher up, in public office.

Ivan Seeking

Jun18-11, 02:54 PM

I believe it. But the term "psychopath" conjures images of a guy in a wig killing girls in showers. I think "sociopath" is better for politicians. One article I read pointed out that there are degrees of sociopathy. My own observation is that there is a whole continuum of intelligence among socipaths, from the very stupid to the very brilliant. Those lower down in intelligence end up in prison, and those higher up, in public office.

I don't think the definition is really up for debate. His book is based on a survey of the world of abnormal psychology.

Psychopathy ( /saɪˈkɒpəθi/[1][2]) is a term which, until the 1980s, formally referred to a personality disorder characterized by the inability to form human attachment[3] and an abnormal lack of empathy, masked by an ability to appear outwardly normal.

But this doesn't exclude the notion that plenty of politicians are sociopaths.

Antisocial personality disorder is sometimes wrongly referred to as psychopathy or sociopathy. Currently, neither psychopathy nor sociopathy are valid diagnoses described in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders,[2] and the ICD-10 of the World Health Organization also lacks psychopathy as a diagnostic disorder.[3] Psychopathy is normally seen as a subset of the antisocial personality disorder, but Blair believes that the antisocial personality disorder and psychopathy may be separate conditions altogether

Both from wiki definitions. Maybe it is a matter up for debate.

arildno

Jun18-11, 02:54 PM

Personally I think physics demands sloth: conservation of energy.

Sloth is dissipative.

zoobyshoe

Jun18-11, 02:58 PM

Sloth is dissipative.

2nd law of thermodynamics, then?

HeLiXe

Jun18-11, 03:21 PM

Erotic pleasure derived from contemplation or admiration of one's own body or self?

-_- I think I need to stay away from this thread.....everytime I come back I see something else I am guilty of lol

I am SO full of sin and I don't even have enough faith to repent to anything -_-

zoobyshoe

Jun18-11, 04:49 PM

I don't think the definition is really up for debate. His book is based on a survey of the world of abnormal psychology.
Notice I wasn't debating the definition. I was speaking about the connotations of the different terms. "Psychopath", for me, can't be extricated from the Hitchcock movie, Psycho, the title of which is short for psychopath. This is why I phrased it "conjures images of": I was speaking about connotation. Cold blooded political manipulations are more subtle and the word "sociopath" fits that much better, in my mind, connotatively.

I just googled some reviews of the book you mentioned and it looks (as far as I can tell from a review) like the author uses psychopath in all situations I would have used sociopath. He's British and may well be following a British convention. Their terms do not always exactly match ours, obviously. I can see, though, that, having read a whole book in which the traits in question are referred to as "psychopathic" you might lose the connotative association with knife wielding lunatics.

Psychiatric definitions and terms are always in flux, in any event, and will be until they can link extreme behaviors to specific neurological conditions. Some people think they actually have traction on the deficits that cause sociopathy. Were that to be demonstrated to everyone's satisfaction it should probably be renamed to something like fronto-orbital-amygdaloid syndrome, or some such, and the diagnosis confirmed by brain scans rather than interviews.

Here's the interesting story of a neurologist whose research into sociopathology kinda came home to roost:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=127888976

I googled him when he made a guest appearance on the show Criminal Minds.

zoobyshoe

Jun18-11, 04:58 PM

So then you approve of the former?

By "former" you mean:

"Erotic pleasure derived from contemplation or admiration of one's own body or self."

Danger

Jun19-11, 01:26 AM

...so in other words we should all sin together and keep our money :biggrin: :biggrin: ;)
That works for me. (Your husband isn't reading this, is he?)

on an aside, I once learned that the word "sin" is an old anglo saxon word used in archery when the arrow did not hit target. I have to look that up to see if it is true.
The game of darts is based upon indoor archery practice in medieval times, and I've played in leagues for decades. The word for a miss indeed starts with an "s", but there the similarity ends.

HeLiXe

Jun19-11, 03:50 AM

That works for me. (Your husband isn't reading this, is he?)

Not at all, if you see him anywhere, can you please remind him I'm alive? :biggrin:

The game of darts is based upon indoor archery practice in medieval times, and I've played in leagues for decades. The word for a miss indeed starts with an "s", but there the similarity ends.

llolollll it's an expletive I guess