I am NOT Confused! But I need help!

[Drakkith]

So here's the deal. Nothing in Science has EVER been confusing, made no sense, seemed totally unacceptable, or anything like that. And I don't know why. All this "confusing" Quantum Physics made perfect sense to me. Time dilation and relativity? Not confused. Double slit experiment? Perfectly fine.

Why am I like this? Is it just because I accept the facts given to me? Maybe because I don't make assumptions about how the world works? Is anyone else like this? It REALLY gets to me sometimes that most people aren't and most simply don't believe science. Even though they use the results every day of their lives...

[Jimmy Snyder]

Double slit experiment? Perfectly fine.
Taken by itself, there is nothing particularly confusing about the double slit experiment. The problem arises from a comparison of the double slit experiment with the photoelectric effect.

[Pengwuino]

So here's the deal. Nothing in Science has EVER been confusing, made no sense, seemed totally unacceptable, or anything like that. And I don't know why. All this "confusing" Quantum Physics made perfect sense to me. Time dilation and relativity? Not confused. Double slit experiment? Perfectly fine.

Why am I like this? Is it just because I accept the facts given to me? Maybe because I don't make assumptions about how the world works? Is anyone else like this? It REALLY gets to me sometimes that most people aren't and most simply don't believe science. Even though they use the results every day of their lives...

I think you're just accepting facts that are given to you.

I mean really, the typical undergraduate physics major doesn't really have a clue how the world works before coming into college. Then over 2 semesters, he's told how the world works. Then he's told how the world doesn't work like that and here's how the world actually works. You never actually get any time to get accustomed to the Newtonian world and do in-depth work with it so it doesn't have time to become ingrained and 'intuitive'.

[Drakkith]

Taken by itself, there is nothing particularly confusing about the double slit experiment. The problem arises from a comparison of the double slit experiment with the photoelectric effect.

Lol I'm not confused by that.

I think you're just accepting facts that are given to you.

I mean really, the typical undergraduate physics major doesn't really have a clue how the world works before coming into college. Then over 2 semesters, he's told how the world works. Then he's told how the world doesn't work like that and here's how the world actually works. You never actually get any time to get accustomed to the Newtonian world and do in-depth work with it so it doesn't have time to become ingrained and 'intuitive'.

I suppose that is possible.

[lisab]

I think you're just accepting facts that are given to you.

I mean really, the typical undergraduate physics major doesn't really have a clue how the world works before coming into college. Then over 2 semesters, he's told how the world works. Then he's told how the world doesn't work like that and here's how the world actually works. You never actually get any time to get accustomed to the Newtonian world and do in-depth work with it so it doesn't have time to become ingrained and 'intuitive'.

I agree with that. I especially seem to need more time than most for things to soak in all the way to my bones.

I think if I had never heard of wave-particle duality before I studied the double slit experiment, I would have been a lot more awed.

Problem is, too many students today already know the punchline.

[Loren Booda]

I believe that even quantum mechanics can be explained intuitively.

[Antiphon]

Ok then.

Drakith and/or loren booda; please explain the mechanism by which quantum interference takes place. Not the math; we've all seen that. How does nature implement quantum superposition leading to interference?

[Drakkith]

Ok then.

Drakith and/or loren booda; please explain the mechanism by which quantum interference takes place. Not the math; we've all seen that. How does nature implement quantum superposition leading to interference?

No idea. But whatever the evidence shows I will whole heartily accept.

[Loren Booda]

"If you think you understand quantum mechanics, you don't understand quantum mechanics." -- Richard Feynman

Intuitively, although "hidden variables" are not allowed in quantum mechanics, a phase space universe embedded microscopically in our own seems to provide all of the information needed for interference with ours.

Such an inner universe would have been entangled with our (outer) universe at the onset of time. These phase spaces together would enable single particles to "self interfere," explaining many quantum mechanical paradoxes. Intuition.

[Dembadon]

No idea. But whatever the evidence shows I will whole heartily accept.

So, you accept things you don't yet understand? I have an extremely hard time doing this!

I think there are two things going on here. The state of being confused and the act of accepting an idea/explanation are two separate things. If you mean that you've always accepted ideas while never being confused by them, then that's different from what the quote above seems to indicate. :biggrin:

Edit: I should be more precise. The fact that you can't explain something doesn't indicate that you're confused, so it's wrong of me to assume that Antiphon's question confused you. However, if there's a topic for which you can't explain certain concepts because you don't fully understand them, then you can still accept the results or explanation, but you can't deny your state of confusion, nor can you verify whether or not the methods used to obtain those results are valid and/or without error. So, the fact that you've always accepted explanations that are scientifically sound doesn't mean that you're without understanding or confusion. It simply means that you've chosen to accept them based on your respect for science.

[Drakkith]

That's what I mean Dembadon. I've never thought "Theres no way that's correct!" upon reading or hearing something new. For example, the explanation that everything has both particle and a wave properties is perfectly acceptable to me. Even if I will never see the wavelike properties I am ok with that. I just thought it was kind of odd that I never really questioned it too much while most people do.

[Pengwuino]

That's what I mean Dembadon. I've never thought "Theres no way that's correct!" upon reading or hearing something new. For example, the explanation that everything has both particle and a wave properties is perfectly acceptable to me. Even if I will never see the wavelike properties I am ok with that. I just thought it was kind of odd that I never really questioned it too much while most people do.

Maybe you're just not thinking about it enough. I mean, it's like saying someone is a guy and a girl or that im drinking water and soda at the same time. And that if I drink my water fast enough, it'll turn into drinking soda.

It should sound ridiculous. Have you ever thrown a book at another book and they "interfered" with each other?

[pergradus]

You're probably just accepting what you're told without actually thinking about it. Similar to what religious people do.

[Drakkith]

Maybe you're just not thinking about it enough. I mean, it's like saying someone is a guy and a girl or that im drinking water and soda at the same time. And that if I drink my water fast enough, it'll turn into drinking soda.

It should sound ridiculous. Have you ever thrown a book at another book and they "interfered" with each other?

Hermaphrodite. Soda does have water in it. Perhaps your soda and water were mixed in a certain way or in some contraption that caused it to mix if you drink it fast enough.

And my school books used to interfere with my "cool status" at school. Does that count?

[Drakkith]

You're probably just accepting what you're told without actually thinking about it. Similar to what religious people do.

I think there are some very big differences between looking at the evidence for something compared to blindly following it. But I see what you are saying.

[Pengwuino]

Hermaphrodite. Soda does have water in it. Perhaps your soda and water were mixed in a certain way or in some contraption that caused it to mix if you drink it fast enough.

And my school books used to interfere with my "cool status" at school. Does that count?

That's..... not what I meant. Those were probably bad examples but a particle and a wave are two separate, concrete ideas. Maybe something like being at the North Pole and the South Pole simultaneously. Or maybe an on/off switch with no in-between.

ooo how does this non-sense about 11-dimensions from various string theories? I sure don't understand that one.

[Drakkith]

That's..... not what I meant. Those were probably bad examples but a particle and a wave are two separate, concrete ideas. Maybe something like being at the North Pole and the South Pole simultaneously. Or maybe an on/off switch with no in-between.

ooo how does this non-sense about 11-dimensions from various string theories? I sure don't understand that one.

Lol. I know that isn't what you meant. But theres a big difference between your examples and quantum effects. I haven't looked into string theory, so I can't comment on it.

[DR13]

Here is a different example. Let's say that you have never seen math before and I tell you that 1+1=3. It is possible to blindly accept this. However, what most would do is look at the situation and use reason. "Wait, if I take one apple and then another, I have two apples even though I was taught that I should have 3." I would say that it is not necessarily a good thing to blindly accept things. If you do not see the oddities in QM then you should think about it more. Blindly accepting things as facts does not lead to innovation.

[HeLiXe]

wave-particle duality before I studied the double slit experiment

I learned about wave particle duality at a very young age and just learned about the double slit experiment but I did not feel impressed by it--I had no idea it was so important -_-(my brain isn't good anymore lol)

To the OP I think some subjects agree more naturally with one's reasoning than others. Confusion can occur with some subjects if one is being too analytical or is trying to compare things with wrong instances or examples. When I was learning vectors I kept thinking of them and doing them in three d before we learned about doing them in three d which really complicated things!

[Drakkith]

Maybe I'll just say "The evidence shows this. If it turns out tomorrow that we are wrong, then so be it." I'm ok with that as well.

[HeLiXe]

ok is that what you meant by this thread...sorry I misunderstood!

[I like Serena]

It REALLY gets to me sometimes that most people aren't and most simply don't believe science.

What don't they believe for instance?

I guess you can try and explain the double slit experiment to someone, and he might not be able to understand the ramifications, but I think only religious fundamentalists would believe it to be false.....

[mr. vodka]

@ I like Serena: I don't think people would deny the experiments, but deny the interpretation given to them.

On a related note, I think the explanation for/about the OP is simply this: he is a pragmatist.

On a more personal note, I'm not a fan of pragmatism, I like to take my interpretations very seriously.
I once read an "intellectual biography" by Heisenberg about his life (Physics and Beyond, I recommend it), and in a passage about pragmatism he expressed his concern about how he had met a physicist in america to whom he told about quantum mechanics for the first time and who responded "oh okay", but probably slightly more interested, but essentially not confused; when Heisenberg, shocked by the absence of confusion, asked the american why he wasn't perplexed, he was told that "if the experiments tell us that, it is so" (<- this is my own paraphrasing). Heisenberg (who didn't understand someone could be not confused about the humongous conceptual issues related to the experiments) feared pragmatism would take over physics, because he deemed it to be a typically american quality (for some reason) and he noticed that after the world wars america was taking away the center of physics from germany to... well, america, as is indeed the case today.

I suppose that in a way he was correct in his prediction, as he was followed by the "shut up and calculate"-era, no?

[Drakkith]

Maybe "confused" isn't the right word, though I don't know of another word that fits.

Perhaps I am just a pragmatist. I don't see anything wrong with it!