Mythology

[Shadow]

Well, before I start getting into this topic, is there anyone in here interested in Mythology besides me?

[Ivan Seeking]

Originally posted by Shadow
Well, before I start getting into this topic, is there anyone in here interested in Mythology besides me?

Hey Shadow,
Please proceed! [6)]

Myth, legend, mysticism and pseudoscience can all find common ground. I feel that this is an appropriate element of the forum that has lacked respresentation. If you look at the new Myth and Mystic's Napster above, you will find that I have just added some links to myths and legends. Feel free to post to the Napster as well as here.

[:)]

[Shadow]

OKay, thanks Ivan. Well, first off, does anyone here know of the Titans, and Norse? I know a little on Thor and I know about how the titans were banished from Zeus but I dont know much more than that. I know quite a bit about the egyptian and greek mythology though. Such as some on the main gods and minor ones some old mythological stories...anyone else?

[Sunfist]

Greek Mythology (and Norse Mythology) was a hobby of mine for awhile when I was in high school. I might know something if you want to ask a question.

[FZ+]

Originally posted by Shadow
I know a little on Thor and I know about how the titans were banished from Zeus but I dont know much more than that.

Hmm... If I remember right, according to greek mythology, the titans were first, and the biggest of the titans, Chronos, had children and ate them to preserve his power. Zeus didn't get eaten, cut open his father's belly to liberate all his brother god and had a big war which they won.

[megashawn]

Is this thread open to Christian mythology as well?

I always got a kick out Greek mythology myself coming up. Next to dinosaurs and nintendo it was probably one of my favorite subjects.

Of course, I've forgotten most of it now. All the stories of Hercules are blurred with TV series.

How about the way astrology has survived from the mythology days to the modern era? Today, astrology is probably one of the most strongest running beliefs across all belief systems. Even christians and the sort read horoscopes often.

Another cool peice of mythology is the Necronomicon. Its a pretty scary book, interesting read though.

[Shadow]

hmmm true but please dont drag this into some religous thing.

Yes FZ, the titans were banished to the underworld (i believe) bye zeus and his fellow gods. I know some of the stories of greek mythology and although I would like to learnd more about htem, I'm also interested in the Egyptians and Norsemen, I know sunfist said he knew about the Norse so, sunfist, if you see this can you or someone else tell me a little that you know about the norsemen? I know thor and odin were the big ones and thor was the son of odin...that's about it.Thanks Ivan for the Mythology napster! I've used some links but I really have to find time to look at them more...between school and everything.

[Lonewolf]

Another cool peice of mythology is the Necronomicon

What are you refering to here? I've seen a book entitled the Necronomicron on the net accredited to Crowley, but it doesn't appear in any bibliography of Crowley that I've seen.. The funny thing about this book is that no records of it have been found pre-Lovecraft.

[megashawn]

Hmm, I did not know this. But then again the story goes the original book was bound in human flesh and separated to 4 corners of the world.

I'm pretty sure it has something to do with ancient summarian, but I'm not really sure its been so long.

Wasn't Lovecraft one of the people who uncovered the ancient texts and translated it? Again, I may be mistaken.

hmmm true but please dont drag this into some religous thing.

Not really my intention, but more so to show how strong an influence mythology still has on our modern culture.

[Lonewolf]

I can't say for sure whether or not it was a creation of Lovecraft's, or a long-forgotten text. The myth behind the Necronomicron that I heard goes something like it was created in the eighth century A.D. in Damascus by the "Mad Arab" Abdhul Alhazred. It was later translated by John Dee, the adviser of all things occult to Elizabeth I. The book is essentially supposed to contain formulae for summoning beings from the human psyche and 'other worlds', and runs to around 800 pages. There are no doubt many variations on this.

Indeed, the necronomicron is supposed to contain references to Sumerian myth, which appears to be the root of a whole lot of mythology. Greek and Roman mythology in particular borrows heavily from Sumer.

[selfAdjoint]

All of that history, the "mad arab" and all was fiction in Lovecraft's stories, many of which formed a linked series called "The Cthlhu Mythos". The actual book, the Necronomicon, wasn't written till many years after Lovecraft died, to exploit the continuing fan interest in the mythos.

Other authors contributed to the mythos, I believe L. Sprague de Camp, Fritz Leiber, and I think even the keeper of the flame, August Derleth, did.

[Shadow]

Uh...anyone about the Norse?

[Lonewolf]

I'll give a basic account:

There are two branches of gods, the Aesir and the Vanir. The Aesir are the younger gods and the Vanir are the elder. At one point in time, there was a war between the two which ended in peace, and left the Aesir dominant. Both sides were glad of the peace, as they had grew tired of the fighting.

The leader of the Aesir is Odin. Other members included Balder, the bleeding god, Bragi, the god of eloquence and Forseti, the settler of quarrels. Freyr, the god of fertility was once a Vanir, but ended up as an Aesir.

The home of the Aesir was Asgard, where the wolf Fenris had been tricked into being chained. Almost all the Aesir were to be killed at the Ragnorak, the final battle between the gods and the frost giants.

I invite anyone to continue as I have to go now. If not, I'll carry on later.

[Shadow]

wow. very interesting! please continue

[Sunfist]

I'm sorry I didn't notice this thread earlier.

To whomever said it: Yes! The Necronomicon was only an invention of Lovecraft and not an actual book. It had NOTHING to do with Aleister Crowley. It was something that Lovecraft created as a way of linking some of his stories about the Ancients.

I'm a little bit of a Lovecraft fan, you must understand.

[phoenixthoth]

sunfist,

aliester crowley used to be my patron saint.

used to be.

he had this concept called the true will. he says that when in alignment with your true will, the entire universe assits you; otherwise, the entire universe opposes you.

this is roughly along the same lines as malai5's concept of the true self having similar properties. another term for true will and true self is SOUL.

what do you think?

i've read a book claiming to be the necronomicon. it really wasn't the same necronomicon (book of the dead) that lovecraft so romantically spoke about as a means to summon kthulu. in the necronomicon i read there were instructions for opening the gates of the abyss from which the ancient summerian gods could come forward and do something like rule this world once more. there were chapters that had the following warning: this chapter is only for the *initiated* (never were there instructions on how to go through initiation) and that all those uninitiated who read this will be forever cursed. without ever undergoing initiation, i plunged forward despite the warnings of curses and all i remember is a spell designed to kill someone once uttered. it was in a contrived langugae like klingon that was supposed to be ancient summerian. there were tales of the mad hermit (the "mad arab") who first summoned the demons from the abyss subsequently leading to his madness.

i'm also a big fan of norse mythology, probably because i'm half norse myself. nordic, at least. but my contact with my ancient culture is totally lost and all i know is that most of the days of the week are named after norse gods. not something i've pondered for at least six years. i'm a big fan of the giant horse woden rode; it reminds me of shadowfax, gandalf's horse (i hope i have that right).

my horse, or vehicle if you please, is the internet.

cheers,
phoenix

[Lonewolf]

Ok, I'll add some more. I'll focus on the Vanir.

The Vanir were gods of fertility. Their place of residence was Vanaheim, which was far from the aesirian Asgard, who were mainly gods of war. As mentioned previously, there was a battle between the two sets of deities which took place not long after creation. The Aesir won, and the two sets exchanged gods as a peace offering. Joining the Vanir from the Aesir was Honir, whose prominent charecteristic feature was long-leggedness, and terrible indecisiveness. Mimir was another such trade from Aesir to Vanir, and he was the wisest of the gods.

For a time, the Vanir were satisfied with their exchanges. After a while, Honir's indecisiveness lead them to question whether they got the short straw of the bargain. His reliance on the wise Mimir became more and more apparent. The Vanir then decapitated Mimir in an act of vengenance, and sent the head back to Odin.

Upon recieving Mimir's head, Odin covered it with herbs so that it would never rot. He then put a charm on the head to restore Mimir's capacity to speak. Odin then placed the head to guard a well under the tree Yggdrasil. Odin gained the wisdom of Mimir by drinking from the well. However, this was not without price, and Odin had to give one of his eye to drink from the well.

One thing worth mentioning about the norse gods is that they have fumfty different spellings for each. For example, phoenixthoth mentioned a god named Woden, who is precisely the same god as Odin.

[phoenixthoth]

perhaps the multiple spellings stem from subcultures relatively separated from each other.

on a grander scale, kinda like God versus Allah yersus Adonai.

cheers,
phoenix

[Lonewolf]

I think you hit the nail on the head with the subcultures. The west of Scandanavia was slightly but notably different in culture to the east. An example being the east of Scandinavia prefered Odin to Thor, while the Norwegians and Icelandic people prefered Thor to Odin. They all had pretty much the same gods, but their roles were changed slightly.

[phoenixthoth]

speaking of gods of war and such, there are two things.

one is a sumerian inspired song by NILE (a death metal band in america) called "masturbating the war god." what a vile thought that is, huh? cool song though. very intense.

the other is that is seems bin laden has turned allah into a god of war in the hearts of some men "over there." i see history repeating itself continuously.

how about worshipping a god of peace for a change?

cheers,
phoenix

[Lonewolf]

The gods were most likely a reflection of the needs of the time. I'm not sure they would have had much time for peace, what with conquests and defending lands and all.

[Lonewolf]

I'll continue waffling on about Norse myth if no one minds. If anyone has anything to add on the subject, feel free to interject.

Since we've gone through the gods, it might be a good idea to introduce the dark side.

The main enemy of the gods were the frost giants, who occasionally were granted aid from gods who defected sides, such as the fire god Loki. The first of these giants was named Ymir. He was born from the drops of the once icy Ginnungap, an abyss at the time of creation lying between the realms of fire and ice. The warm air of the South caused the Ginnungap to thaw, and Ymir was born out of the droplets, as was Audhumla, a cow.

Ymir was fed by suckling Audhumla (umm...eww). He was later to become father and mother of all frost giants, the first of which came from the sweat of his armpits.

Odin, Vili and Ve eventually grew tired of the giant's brutality and malice, and took up arms against Ymir. They slew Ymir, and drowned the rest of the frost giants in Ymir's blood. All except for Bergelmir and his wife, who managed to sail away on a hollow tree trunk.

The three triumphant gods then threw Ymir's carcass into Ginnungap, which is the point where the Earth is created. Ymir's flesh is earth, unbroken bones mountains, teeth and jaws become rocks and boulders, his blood is the rivers, and his skull is the sky. The sky was held up by four dwarves.

[phoenixthoth]

perhaps america is a frost giant that needs to be reigned in by the gods.

cheers,
phoenix

[Gale]

i thought maybe if you're interested in norse you might want toi know that its contempoary names are asatru and heathenism. also as far as the differences between names of gods and whatnot you had the Teutons (continental Germanic tribes) and the Norse (Scandinavian and Gothic tribes). two separate peopel with teh same religions, so small things changed. also within each grouping of people there were small changes between tribes. For instance you had Thor or Thonar among the Norse, and Donar or Donner among the Teutons.

um, also, i have my mythology book downstairs, but there's a section in it about the norse, and i thought i'd also mention that what i liked best were the pages on norse wisdom; sayings that elders used and whatnot. pretty deep considering their culture. a lot more civilized than you'd think.

[phoenixthoth]

i think civilized should mean a collective who has managed to acheive an almost permanent equilibrium with their environment.

generally i hate the word civilized.

it's an expression of judgement. we are more civilized then they, and such. of course, america is more civilized than the zealous muslims attacking her.

i'd like you to quote the wise sayings.

thanks.
phoenix

[Gale]

sorry, i meant 'civilized' as in, we always refer to the norse as barbarians. in many ways they had a much better society then southern europeans. they were warriors because of the environment in which they lived, but beneath it all they had wise and humble beginings...

anyways, i'll quote some of the elder edda, it's very wise and even humourous. just keep in mind that it relates to their time and society...


the fierceness of men rules the fate of women

There lies less good than most believe
In ale for mortal men

A man knows nothing if he knows not
That wealth oft begets an ape

A coward thinks he will live forever
If only he can avoid warfare.

Tell one your thoughts, but beware of two,
All know what is known to three

A silly man lies awake all night
Thinking of many things.
When the morning comes he is worn with care,
And trouble is just as it was.

A paltry man and poor of mind
is he who mocks at all things

Brave men can live well anywhere.
A coward dreads all things.

I once was young and traveled alone.
I met another and thought myself rich.
Man is the joy of man. Be a friend to your friend.
Give him laughter for laughter.

To a good friend's house
The path is straight
Though he is far away.

No man has nothing but misery, let him be never so sick
To this one his sons are a joy, and to that
His kin, to another his wealth.
And yet to another the good he has done.

In a maiden's words let no man place faith,
Nor in what a woman says.
But i know men and women both
Men's mind are unstable toward women.

None so good that he has no faults,
None so wicked that he is worth naught.

Cattle dies and kindred die. We also die,
But i know one thing that never dies,
Judgment on each one dead.

Moderately wise each one should be,
Not overwise, for a wise man's heart
Is seldom glad.

The mind knows only
What lies near the heart.


last two are my favorites, but i posted all of them in my book. but, since i have this book, i can probably answer most general questions about mytholgy in general, it's pretty good. so ask away.

[Lonewolf]

I'd be happy to hear about some Japanese/Chinese mythology.

[Phusion]

I found a intressting page about The Necronomicon with a quick google search. I have no idea if this is written up is a joke or not. But was a intressting read for me.

The Necronomicon Anti-FAQ (http://www.digital-brilliance.com/necron/necron.htm)

It have to nice info like:
Where and when was the Necronomicon written? (http://www.digital-brilliance.com/necron/necron.htm#Where)
and Why did the novelist H.P. Lovecraft claim to have invented the Necronomicon? (http://www.digital-brilliance.com/necron/necron.htm#Why)

It even link the book with the norse =)
Why is the Necronomicon connected with Norse mythology? (http://www.digital-brilliance.com/necron/necron.htm#Norse)

I hope this is of intrest for someone.

And I'm new here. Just found the site when I was looking for info on John Titor. You got a plenty of topics here to get the mind going. Good job =D

[Ivan Seeking]

Originally posted by Lonewolf
I'd be happy to hear about some Japanese/Chinese mythology.

I have a link for some in the myth and mystic's napster up above.

http://chineseculture.about.com/library/extra/story/blyrh.htm

[;)]

[Lonewolf]

Hey, thanks Ivan. I forgot all about this.

[Lonewolf]

"The City of Derby is the "Ghost Capital of England", an intriguing thought. This section of the City of Derby web site will bring together all the information available on the city's spookiest places, where ghostly presences are felt and where, sometimes, things actually do go 'bump in the night'."
http://www.derbycity.com/ghosts/ghosts.html

I just had to point this out. I was going through the Myth napster, and found this. Derby's my home town, so I felt I had to shout about it.

[Ivan Seeking]

Originally posted by Lonewolf
"The City of Derby is the "Ghost Capital of England", an intriguing thought. This section of the City of Derby web site will bring together all the information available on the city's spookiest places, where ghostly presences are felt and where, sometimes, things actually do go 'bump in the night'."
http://www.derbycity.com/ghosts/ghosts.html

I just had to point this out. I was going through the Myth napster, and found this. Derby's my home town, so I felt I had to shout about it.

Cool! Should we call you spooky Lonewolf? [:D]

[Lonewolf]

Haha, if you like. They've even got the pub I go to!

http://www.derbycity.com/ghosts/ghost-14.html

[Ivan Seeking]

Originally posted by Lonewolf
Haha, if you like. They've even got the pub I go to!

http://www.derbycity.com/ghosts/ghost-14.html

Well, I think the Myth and Mystic's Napster deserves a hit from everyone at the pub. [6)]

Have you told them that they hit the big leagues here at PF.com...and due to a grey alien deep in the backwoods of Oregon? [:D]

Ain't the internet great?!!!

[Zero]

Has anyone mentioned Judeo-Christian mythology? The Bible is chock full of useful fancies...[:D]

[Ivan Seeking]

Originally posted by Zero
Has anyone mentioned Judeo-Christian mythology? The Bible is chock full of useful fancies...[:D]

What? Russ won't play anymore? [:D]

[Ivan Seeking]

Originally posted by Lonewolf
Haha, if you like. They've even got the pub I go to!

http://www.derbycity.com/ghosts/ghost-14.html

Can you tell us anything about the credibility of the stories about this pub; or the area? This is an interesting oppotunity to get some direct feedback about a fringe claim. Does anyone at the pub believe or even know about these claims?

[Lonewolf]

The bar staff seem adament that there is something there. One of them was telling me once about something switching the taps of the beer barrels on, and the barrels being moved about in the cellar, sometimes neatly, and sometimes thrown around. The claim that they always go down to the cellar in pairs is true. I've never seen or heard anything unusual personally, and I'm in there often enough [;)] I'd recommend anyone passing through Derby to go there, it's one of the best pubs in Derby.

It's true when they say Derby is the "Ghost Capital of England". There's so many tour companies offering "Ghost Walks". I can't offer the same recommendation I do for these as I do for 'The Dolphin'.

I haven't been to the pub since, as I've moved back into uni, so I won't be back in Derby until around Christmas. They should pay me for the advertising! I don't think most of the regulars would be interested in PF, to be honest. I'll give it a shot when I go back, 'though.