Can Differentiation from First Principles Be Applied to Trigonometric Functions?

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    Curious Stupid
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the application of differentiation from first principles to trigonometric functions and the derivation of integration formulas. Participants explore the foundational concepts of calculus, including differentiation and integration, and question the relationships between areas, perimeters, and volumes in geometric contexts.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Homework-related

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether differentiation from first principles can be applied to trigonometric functions, expressing curiosity about the derivation of these formulas rather than memorization.
  • Another participant suggests that basic integration formulas are derived from corresponding differentiation formulas, illustrating this with an example of power functions.
  • A participant, who has not yet taken Calculus, reflects on the relationship between integration and geometric properties, specifically questioning if integrating perimeter yields area and area yields volume for all shapes.
  • It is noted that only "sufficiently nice" regions exhibit the property where integrating perimeter gives area and area gives volume, with specific examples provided for circles and spheres, while also mentioning exceptions like cubes.
  • One participant requests online resources for further information on surface integrals.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying levels of understanding and knowledge about calculus concepts, with some agreeing on the derivation of integration formulas from differentiation. However, the discussion on the applicability of integration to all shapes remains unresolved, indicating multiple views on the matter.

Contextual Notes

Some participants indicate a lack of formal education in calculus, which may limit their understanding of the discussed concepts. The discussion also highlights the dependence on specific definitions of "nice" regions in the context of geometric properties.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for individuals interested in foundational calculus concepts, particularly those exploring the relationships between differentiation and integration, as well as geometric interpretations of these mathematical operations.

Pseudo Statistic
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Yo.
Curious about two things..
First, is it possible to use a method such as differentiation from first principles (the whole [tex]lim_{\delta\rightarrow0}\[f(x+\delta)-f(x)]/\delta[/tex] thing) to differentiate trigonometric functions? Or is everyone stumped with memorizing them? (I'm curious about this, I'm not the kind of guy to memorize a formula list or something, I'm curious as to how these forms were found or an alternative method for finding their derivatives)

Next question, how were the short integration formulae found? Is there anything similar to differentiation from first principles for integration?

Excuse me for my lack of knowledge or ignorance for asking such questions.

Thanks.
 
Last edited:
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http://www.maths.abdn.ac.uk/~igc/tch/ma1002/diff/node27.html

Next question, how were the short integration formulae found?

The what?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Formulas, formulae..
Whatever system you go by.
 
The basic formulae for integration are derived from knowing the corresponding differentiation formulae. For example, since we know
d(xn)/dx= n xn-1, the integral (anti-derivative) of xn must be (1/(n+1))xn+1 so that ((1/(n+1))xn+1)'= ((n+1)/(n+1))x(n+1)-1= xn.

I would have thought all that was taught in first semester calculus.
 
I know about that...
Mind you, I haven't taken Calculus yet..
But I guess my second question really had no meaning to it.
Let me add something else, I've noticed:
[tex]\pi r^2 = \int 2 \pi r dr[/tex]
Is this true for all areas, perimeters and volumes of shapes both 2D and 3D? (Integrating perim. to get area, area to get volume?)
 
Last edited:
Pseudo Statistic said:
I know about that...
Mind you, I haven't taken Calculus yet..
But I guess my second question really had no meaning to it.
Let me add something else, I've noticed:
[tex]\pi r^2 = \int 2 \pi r dr[/tex]
Is this true for all areas, perimeters and volumes of shapes both 2D and 3D? (Integrating perim. to get area, area to get volume?)
Only sufficiently "nice" regions have this property, for example your circle and also, the sphere.

The cube, with side-length "s", has volume [tex]s^{3}[/tex] and surface area [tex]6s^{2}[/tex] which doesn't equal the derivative of the volume.

However, in 3-D, we might calculate the volume of a region with the aid of a surface integral using a suitable version of the divergence theorem; similarly, the area of a 2-D figure can be calculated with the aid of a line integral about its periphery with a suitable version of Green's theorem.
 
Would you know of any online resources I could refer to for information on surface integrals?
Thanks.
 

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