Proofing Catalan Numbers: A Combinatoric Approach

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around combinatorial proofs related to Catalan numbers, exploring how various problems can be connected to these numbers. Participants are seeking methods to establish these connections through combinatorial reasoning, generating functions, and counting arguments.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses a desire to understand how to create a combinatorial proof related to Catalan numbers without seeking direct solutions to their specific problem.
  • Another participant suggests using the Catalan number expression or generating functions to relate the problem to known Catalan number applications.
  • A different participant describes their specific problem involving 2xn matrices and attempts to relate it to the recursive formula for Catalan numbers, seeking a combinatorial proof for the number of combinations.
  • One participant mentions a counting argument involving Dyck numbers and provides a formula related to Catalan numbers, indicating a historical context for their derivation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not appear to reach a consensus on a specific combinatorial proof or method. Multiple approaches and ideas are presented, indicating ongoing exploration and differing perspectives on how to connect their problems to Catalan numbers.

Contextual Notes

Some participants reference specific problems and formulas without fully resolving the assumptions or steps needed to connect them to Catalan numbers. The discussion includes various approaches that may depend on different interpretations of the problems at hand.

Who May Find This Useful

Readers interested in combinatorial mathematics, specifically those studying Catalan numbers and their applications in counting problems, may find this discussion relevant.

msmith12
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I'm working on a problem that has to do with catalan numbers, and I'm just trying to figure out how to make a proof that shows what I am dealing with does in fact have to do with catalan numbers.

I know this is very general, but I don't want someone to do my problem for me, I just want to know how to do a combinatoric proof of anything that has to do with these numbers...

any help would be greatly appreciated

~matt
 
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One way if you can "whatever" in your problem with the actual catalan number expression (1/n+1)C(2n,n) or if it has to do anything with the generating function of the catalan number.

Another way could be to reduce "whatever" in your problem to the known problems which have to do something with catalan number. (e.g number of binary trees of n nodes is a catalan number or the euler polygon problem or ballot problem)

-- AI
 
I worked on the problem again, and tried to find a relationship between the formula C(n)=C(0)C(n-1)+C(1)C(n-2)+...+C(n-1)C(0), and my problem.

The problem is to find the number of possible 2xn matrices consisting of the first 2n integers so that the numbers in both the first and second rows are increasing, and the number in row 1, column j is less than the number in row 2 (for any j)...

I've been trying to come up with something using a tree, since the problem can easily be divided into two distinct halves-- notably

12xxx...x
xxxxx...2n

and

13xxx...x
2xxxx...2n

from this, it is really easy to divide each side into the sum of smaller matrices that satisfy the necessary conditions.

I guess the point I am now, is how can I turn this into a combinatoric proof that there are exactly Cn possible combinations?

Thanks
 
There is a counting argument to obtain Catalan Numbers, which involves the use of Dyck numbers discovered by D Andre. It is a little too long to write it in here, but it is used to determine:

[tex]C(n) = \frac{(2n)!}{n!n!} -\frac{(2n)!}{(n-1)!(n+1)!}[/tex]

See: http://www.answers.com/topic/catalan-number
 

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