Definite Integrals - Solve Problems & Learn Answers

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around solving problems related to definite integrals, focusing on proving inequalities, evaluating integrals, and applying the fundamental theorem of calculus. Participants share various approaches and techniques for tackling specific problems, including Taylor series, variable substitution, and integration by parts.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents several problems on definite integrals, including proving inequalities and finding derivatives of integrals.
  • Another participant suggests using Taylor series to approach one of the inequalities, while expressing frustration over the lack of an elegant solution.
  • Some participants discuss the importance of changing limits when performing variable substitutions in integrals.
  • There are suggestions to switch the order of integration and to apply integration by parts for certain problems.
  • Participants express uncertainty about specific steps in their solutions, particularly regarding the application of the fundamental theorem of calculus and integration techniques.
  • One participant acknowledges a mistake in their reasoning and seeks clarification on the correct approach to a problem.
  • Another participant explains how to evaluate an integral before differentiating it, which is a point of realization for others in the discussion.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally share various methods and approaches to the problems, but there is no consensus on the best techniques or solutions for all the posed questions. Some participants express uncertainty and seek further clarification on specific steps, indicating that the discussion remains unresolved in parts.

Contextual Notes

Some participants mention limitations in their understanding of certain mathematical concepts, such as Taylor series and the fundamental theorem of calculus, which may affect their ability to solve the problems presented.

KLscilevothma
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I'm now teaching myself several topics on definite integrals for a math test on monday. Here are a few problems that I don't know how to do.

Q1) Prove the following inequality:
1 < [inte]pi/20 (sin x)/x dx < (pi/2)

Q2) Show that for x > 0,
ex-1 <= [inte]x0 (e2t+1)1/2 dt <= 21/2(ex-1)

Q3) Let F(x) = [inte]2x0 et/x dt. Find F'(x)

Any help would be appreciated.

Edit: I know how to do Q3 now but I still don't understand why the upper limit can change to 2 after substituting u = t/x
 
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Q4) Let f be an odd function, show that
&int;-a...a(&int;-a...xf(t)dt)dx = - &int;-a..a xf(x)dx
 
I know how to do Q3 now but I still don't understand why the upper limit can change to 2 after substituting u = t/x

This is due to your change in variables, you must also do the change of variables to the limits. t=2x is your upper limit, your change of variables is u=t/x -> u = 2 if t=2x.
 
Hrm.

Try doing Q1) by replacing (sin x)/x with its taylor series. This will give both inequalities... however the right inequality is easy to get by considering the max value of (sin x)/x

(this feels awfully brute-forcish, though... there's probably a slicker way)


For Q2), consider the fact that the inequalities hold when x = 0, then consider how fast each term grows as x increases.


Another approach to Q3) is to recognize that you can simply do the integral directly.


For Q4), have you tried switching the order of integration?
 
Originally posted by Integral
This is due to your change in variables, you must also do the change of variables to the limits. t=2x is your upper limit, your change of variables is u=t/x -> u = 2 if t=2x.
ok, I got it now. Thanks.

Originally posted by Hurkyl
Try doing Q1) by replacing (sin x)/x with its taylor series. This will give both inequalities... however the right inequality is easy to get by considering the max value of (sin x)/x
Yep, I can do the right inequality now. I haven't learned taylor seies in school yet, so I still can't get the left one.

For Q2), consider the fact that the inequalities hold when x = 0, then consider how fast each term grows as x increases.
Could you please show me the first few steps? Q2 was extracted from the section about inequalities on definite integrals and mean value theorem of integral calculus. After reading the theorems and examples, I attempted to do questions on this topic. I tried the first 4 questions (the easiest ones) but could only do 2 of them. I really felt frustrated and left this section behind and read the next section. (Edit: I'll go back to this topic after finish revising other topics)

Another approach to Q3) is to recognize that you can simply do the integral directly.
Could you please show me? I'm new to fundamental theorem of integral calculus.

For Q4), have you tried switching the order of integration?
I attempted the question as follows:
Let
g(x) = &int;-a...xf(t)dt ...... (1)
g'(x) = f(x)
integrate on both sides
g(x) = &int;f(x)dx = xf(x) + C = -xf(x) + C (f is an odd function)

Now I want C=0
From (1), g(-a) = 0
af(-a) + C = 0
C = af(a)
Hm.. something must have gone wrong but I don't know where.

I'm not sure what do you mean by switching the order of integration. It's my first time doing question involving 2 integral signs writing together.
 
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Q1)

All right...

My next best suggestion is to divide the domain of integration into several parts (hint: 4 will work) and find a simple minimum value over each of the 4 parts.

Again, sorry I can't figure out an elegant solution; I'm just as annoyed about it as you are. :smile:



Q2)

I'll do a problem to demonstrate the technique I'm suggesting.

Theorem: 2x <= 2x for x >= 2

let f(x) = 2x - 2x
First, notice that f(2) = 0.
Now, f'(x) = ln(2) 2x - 2
Clearly, f'(x) > 0 for x >= 2, so f(x) is strictly increasing over [2, &infin;)
Thus, 2x - 2x >= 0 for x >= 2
Therefore 2x <= 2x for x >= 2

(I'm unsure if this type of proof is the way your text means for you to do the problem, but no other solution has sprung to my mind)


Q3)

First let me ask if you know how to compute something like:

&int;[0,1] e3x dx

(this means the integral from 0 to 1)

If you can, then note that, as far as the integral is concerned, (1/x) is a constant, just like 3 is in the above problem.


Q4)

g(x) = ?f(x)dx = xf(x) + C = -xf(x) + C (f is an odd function)

The last two steps here are incorrect.

As for switching the order of integration, forget about it; I presumed you were in a multivariable calc course where you would learn such a thing.


Try integration by parts... on the outer integral.
 
Thanks Hurkyl. Sorry that I haven't had time to reply immediately.
Originally posted by Hurkyl
Q4)
g(x) = &int;f(x)dx = xf(x) + C = -xf(x) + C (f is an odd function)
The last two steps here are incorrect.

Try integration by parts... on the outer integral. [/B]
Eek, that was an awful mistake.

I got it now.

By applying integration by parts,

&int;-a...a(&int;-a...xf(t)dt)dx
=[ x&int;-a..xf(t)dt ](-a..a) - &int;xf(x)dx
=[ a&int;-a..af(t)dt - (-a)&int;-a..-af(t)dt ]- &int;xf(x)dx

since f(x) is an odd function, so (a&int;[-a..a]f(t)dt) = 0
since the upper limit = lower limit, so (-a)&int;[-a..-a]f(t)dt = 0

The result follows.

Q3)

First let me ask if you know how to compute something like:

&int;[0,1] e3x dx

(this means the integral from 0 to 1)

If you can, then note that, as far as the integral is concerned, (1/x) is a constant, just like 3 is in the above problem.

Yes, I know &int;[0,1] e3x dx = (1/3)&int;[0,1]e3xd(3x) = (1/3)(e^(3x)-1)

Applying this method,

F(x)
= &int;[0..2x] et/x dt
= -(x2/t)&int;[0..2x]et/xd(t/x)

If I need to find F'(x), I have to apply chain rule and isn't a nice job to continue from here.

It seems to me that method is simliar to do substitution, or am I misunderstand something?

I'm still working on Q1 and Q2. I've been taught the technique that you used as demonstration for Q2 but I couldn't think of it while attempting this question. :wink:
 
In general...

&int; eat dt = (1/a) eat + C

so if we plug in 1/x for a, we get...

&int; et/x dt = x et/x + C

Then you can evaluate at the endpoints of [0, 2x] to get the exact answer, at which point differentiation is easy.
 
Originally posted by Hurkyl
In general...

&int; eat dt = (1/a) eat + C

so if we plug in 1/x for a, we get...

&int; et/x dt = x et/x + C

Then you can evaluate at the endpoints of [0, 2x] to get the exact answer, at which point differentiation is easy.
Oh, we can evaluate the integral first before differentiating it! I see. :smile:
 

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