Is the observer a physical entity?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the concept of the observer in physics, particularly questioning the physicality of the observer and its implications in different theories such as quantum mechanics and relativity. Participants explore the nature of observers, potential experiments, and the definitions of physicality in various contexts.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Exploratory

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question what experiments have demonstrated the physicality of the observer, suggesting that either all objects are potential observers or none are.
  • One participant argues that the observer must be their own subject of observation, which complicates the repeatability and verification of results, leading to subjective observations.
  • Another participant notes that the term "observer" varies in meaning across theories, with relativity equating it to a coordinate system and quantum theory having a different definition.
  • There is a suggestion that the physicality of any object, including the sun or specific individuals, could be questioned, depending on how "demonstrating physicality" is defined.
  • A participant proposes that quantum objects might be considered the only true 'observers' in a physical sense.
  • One participant humorously suggests that a physical interaction, such as being punched, could serve as proof of physicality.
  • Another participant mentions the correspondence principle, stating that as the number of quantum objects increases, they are considered classical, while noting potential violations in specific conditions like low temperature condensates.
  • There is a reference to the Measurement Problem in quantum mechanics, linking it to the discussion of the observer's role.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express various viewpoints on the nature of the observer and the concept of physicality, with no consensus reached on the definitions or implications. Multiple competing views remain, particularly regarding the relationship between observers and physicality in different theoretical frameworks.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the ambiguity in the definitions of "observer" and "physicality," as well as the challenges in demonstrating these concepts experimentally. The implications of quantum mechanics and relativity on the understanding of observers are also noted, but remain unresolved.

Loren Booda
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What experiment has demonstrated the physicality of the observer itself? Either all objects are potential observers, or none are.
 
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Wow, cool question! I wouldn't think that such a thing can be done. The observer would have to be his/her own subject of observation, so there could never be repeatablility by another researcher. Therefore, no verification of the results. It would be a totally subjective observation, subject to error based upon the researcher's perspective. I think... a little too deep for me, but I suspect that quantum mechanical effects would rule it out. :confused:
 
Loren Booda said:
What experiment has demonstrated the physicality of the observer itself? Either all objects are potential observers, or none are.
The term "observer" has a different meaning in different theories. In relativity an observer is synonymous with a coordinate system. In quantum theory an observer is something else altogether (I don't recall the definition off-hand).

Pete
 
Good point, Pete.

How many definitions of observers do you all know, and how might they apply to the question at hand?
 
Loren, I don't know about you, but I am definitely physical!
 
Pete,you mean "reference system"...

Daniel.
 
Loren Booda said:
What experiment has demonstrated the physicality of the observer itself? Either all objects are potential observers, or none are.

Has the physicality of anything been demonstrated?

The question can be asked for any object, like:
Has the physicality of the sun been demonstrated?
Has the physicality of HallsofIvy been demonstrated?

To answer the question one needs to know what kind of action is meant by "demonstrating physicality".
 
Judging by Dubito,ergo cogito;cogito,ergo sum ,i'd say that the mere attempt of yours to prove you exist is a good enough proof,because if u hadn't existed,you'd not be able to attempt a proof...:wink:

Daniel.
 
Could quantum objects be considered the only true 'observers' in the physical sense?
 
  • #10
What other objects are there ?
 
  • #11
How about if HallsofIvy punches you in the nose? Would that prove he is physical.

(And, hey, I just had a physical! That proves I'm physical!)
 
  • #12
Tournesol,

As the number of quantum objects becomes large, their collective entity is considered classical in nature by the correspondence principle. (A rule which seems to be violated by very low temperature condensates?)

HallsofIvy,

I once calculated the Planck momentum (the maximum transferrable by a single quantum) to be approximately the kick of a mule!
 
  • #13
What experiment has demonstrated the physicality of the observer itself? Either all objects are potential observers, or none are.

In the QM sense this sounds to me like a re-statement of The Measurement Problem.

Btw, I have put together some interesting links on TMP and Consciousness at the bottom of the first page here:
https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=58374
 

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