Proving a Logical Statement: Puzzling Over Proving Pb and Not P1...

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around proving a logical statement involving propositional logic, specifically focusing on the expression of logical formulas and their properties. Participants explore the structure of logical statements, the implications of infinite formulas, and the associative and commutative properties of logical connectives.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses difficulty in proving a logical statement and seeks clarification on the expression of the statement involving Pb and not P1, P2, etc.
  • Another participant points out that "Pb and not (P1, P2, P3 ...)" represents an infinite length formula, suggesting that an infinite set of finite length formulas might suffice instead.
  • The second participant outlines the definitions of a formal language, including propositional symbols and logical connectives, and discusses the properties of logical connectives such as associativity and commutativity.
  • It is noted that the expression ~(P2, P3, ..., Pn) requires clarification on the meaning of commas, and that the negation does not distribute over conjunctions.
  • One participant acknowledges that while some questions were clarified, new questions arose, indicating ongoing uncertainty.
  • Another participant suggests looking into "infinitary logic" as a potential resource for further understanding.
  • Further recommendations for books on mathematical logic are provided, emphasizing the importance of foundational texts before delving into more complex topics.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the expression and implications of logical statements, particularly regarding infinite formulas and the properties of logical connectives. The discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing perspectives on the topic.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in expressing infinite logical formulas and the need for clarity in definitions and notation. There is also an acknowledgment of the complexity involved in understanding logical properties and the potential for confusion in the discussion.

Who May Find This Useful

Individuals interested in mathematical logic, propositional logic, and the properties of logical connectives may find this discussion relevant. It may also benefit those exploring foundational texts in logic.

danne89
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Hi! I've problem proving a logical statement. I really can nothing about logic. I just messing around with some in a try to prove another theorem.

Anyway, I would be useful to be able to prove that:
([itex]P_b[/itex] and not [itex]P_1[/itex]) and ([itex]P_b[/tex] and not [itex]P_2[/tex] and ...<br /> as P1, P2, P3 ...<br /> equals Pb and not (P1, P2, P3 ...)<br /> <br /> I don't know if this is the proper way to express this, but I hope you will get my point. If not ask. And please correct me.[/itex][/itex]
 
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"Pb and not (P1, P2, P3 ...)" would be a formula of infinite length, and I don't know of any language that allows formulas of infinite length. However, you can have an infinite set of formulas of finite length- which I suppose would work just as well.
For your proof, the setup isn't fun, but here goes.
The primitive symbols of formal language L fall into two disjoint sets: a countably infinite set of propositional symbols and a set of two distinct connective symbols, "NOT" denoted by ~ and "AND" denoted by &.
Formulas are defined as follows:
1) a propositional symbol is a formula.
2) If P is a formula, then ~P is a formula.
3) If P and Q are formulas, then &PQ is a formula.
A (truth-)valuation V on L is a mapping from the set of formulas to the set {T, F} of (truth-)values, defined as follows:
1) If P is a propositional symbol, Pv denotes the value assigned to P by V (Pv = T or Pv = F).
2) If P is a formula, (~P)v = {T if Pv = F, F if Pv = T}.
3) If P and Q are formulas, (&PQ)v = {T if Pv = T and Qv = T, F otherwise}.
You want to prove that & has the associative and commutative properties. Informally, this is simple. Say that two formulas P and Q are equivalent iff Pv = Qv for every V. So you want to prove that if R, S, and T are formulas, then (&R&ST)v = (&&RST)v and (&RS)v = (&SR)v for every V. This follows immediately from the definitions.
You also want to prove that (&PP)v = Pv (so you can get rid of all those extra Pbs). If Pv = T, then (&PP)v = T, and vice versa. If Pv = F, then (&PP)v = F, and vice versa. So they're equivalent.
We can write "&PQ" as "P & Q" and introduce parentheses and subscripts for convenience. I think the meaning of your original statement is clear, if stated as follows:
For any n in N, [(P1 & ~P2) & (P1 & ~P3) & ... & (P1 & ~Pn)] is equivalent to [P1 & (~P2 & ~P3 & ... & ~Pn)].

Note that you cannot write ~(P2, P3, ..., Pn), unless you say what the commas mean. Note also that ~(P2 & P3 & ... & Pn) is not equivalent to (~P2 & ~P3 & ... & ~Pn)- "~" doesn't distribute that way.
If that didn't help, just say so. Is that what you wanted to say?
 
Thanks! You clear a few questionmarks, but created even more. I'll read a book on mathematical logic in the future i think.
 
Try googling "infinitary logic."
 
danne89 said:
Thanks! You clear a few questionmarks, but created even more.
If you have questions, just ask. :smile:
I'll read a book on mathematical logic in the future i think.
The best book on logic I've ever read is "Logic" by Wilfrid Hodges. If you read no other book on logic, read this one- Hodges is hysterical and seriously knows his stuff. You should also read this before any mathematical logic book. After that, "Set theory, logic, and their limitations" by Moshé Machover is great. "Mathematical Logic" by Joseph Shoenfield is also good.
 

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