Calculating Collision Time for Elastic Sphere Collision | Physics Formula

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around calculating the collision time for two elastic spheres, focusing on the forces involved and the potential energy associated with their deformation. The original poster presents a force equation and seeks to derive a formula for collision time based on given parameters, including maximum compression distance and initial velocity.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore the relationship between potential energy and kinetic energy, questioning how to derive a differential equation from the given force function. There are inquiries about the meaning of a dimensionless variable in the context of the integral and how to express velocity as a function of position.

Discussion Status

Some participants have provided insights into the conservation of energy and potential energy calculations, while others are grappling with the algebra involved and the interpretation of variables. There is an ongoing exploration of how to manipulate equations to reach the desired form for integration, but no consensus has been reached on the specific approach to take.

Contextual Notes

Participants note potential confusion regarding the role of mass in the potential energy equation and the implications of changing variables in the integral. The discussion reflects the complexity of the problem and the need for careful algebraic manipulation.

AdamP
Consider a collision between two spheres where there was an elastic force acting between the two bodies.
F=u*dv/dt=-h*x^3/2
where velocity v=dx/dt, h is a constant, u is the reduced mass (m1*m2/m1+m2), and x is the "change in distance" between the centers of the two bodies. Maximum compression distance is X_m, and initial velocity is v_i.

Show that the collision time, t, is given by
t=2(X_m)/(v_i)* [Integral from 0 to 1 of (1-k^5/2)^(-1/2) dk],
where k is a dimensionless variable replaced in the integral for x.

Just some idea to start this off would be much appreciated. Thanks!
 
Last edited by a moderator:
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AdamP said:
Consider a collision between two spheres where there was an elastic force acting between the two bodies.

F=u*dv/dt=-h*x^3/2

where velocity v=dx/dt, h is a constant, u is the reduced mass (m1*m2/m1+m2), and x is the "change in distance" between the centers of the two bodies. Maximum compression distance is X_m, and initial velocity is v_i.

Show that the collision time, t, is given by
t=2(X_m)/(v_i)* [Integral from 0 to 1 of (1-k^5/2)^(-1/2) dk]

where k is a dimensionless variable, obtained by replacing the resulting integral over x by it. (what does this even mean?)

Just some idea to start this off would be much appreciated. Thanks!

I think you just have to go with energy on this one. The force is elastic, hence conservative, hence you have a potential energy stored in the deformed spheres.

PE = (2/5)hx^(5/2)

That plus the kinetic energy has to be constant, which gives you velocity as a function of position, and vice versa. That relationship ought to make your DE separable into something of the form

f(v)dv = dt

that you can integrate to get the result you are looking for. I haven't done it, but that appears to be a path that will get you there.
 
I got the part about PE... i.e. after integrating the force function give, we get the work done/ potential energy...

btw, is work done on moving one of the mass/PE= (2/5)h*(m/u)*x^(5/2)?
and equating this to (1/2)*m*(v_i)^2, the x we find would be the maximum, i.e. X_m?

Also, question: How do you get a DE in the form f(v)dv=dt?? cos I tried but I can't seem to separate it out to get that stated integral..

And what does itmean by replacing the dimensionless variable k...?
 
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The algebra gets a bit involved, but I expect you can work that out. I don't see there being any mass terms in the potential energy. The work done to compress the spheres has nothing to do with their masses. This is analogous to a spring where the PE just depends on the spring constant and the displacement. Once you have the PE, you know the total energy is conserved so you can write

[tex]U = \frac{1}{2}\mu v^2 + \frac{2}{5}hx^{5/2} = \frac{1}{2}\mu v_i^2 = \frac{2}{5}hX_m^{5/2}[/tex]

solve for x

[tex]x = \left( {\frac{{5\mu }}{{4h}}} \right)^{2/5} \left( {v_i^2 - v^2 } \right)^{2/5}[/tex]

Then

[tex]x^{3/2} = \left( {\frac{{5\mu }}{{4h}}} \right)^{3/5} \left( {v_i^2 - v^2 } \right)^{3/5}[/tex]

Substitute that into the DE and solve for -dt

[tex]\left( {\frac{4}{5}} \right)^{3/5} \left( {\frac{\mu }{h}} \right)^{2/5} \frac{{dv}}{{\left( {v_i^2 - v^2 } \right)^{3/5} }} = - dt[/tex]

I have not taken it far enough to identify k, but it is just an integration variable you need to come up with to integrate the left side of this thing. The wording suggest that you would have an integral over x, but I suspect you might not need to change the integral over v to an integral over x. If you need to do that, you can get the differential relationship between v and x from the equation for x above and express v in terms of x by solving the x(v) equation for v(x). I wouldn't go there unless I had to, but it might be necessary to get it into the form they want.

You would want to take advantage of the symmetry of the velocity integral and find the time of compression for v to go from initial to zero, then double it, but apparently you don't have to do the integral, just find the appropriate variable of integration. It's not jumping out at me, but if you work from the total energy equation you can cume up with the ratio of maximum compression to the initial velocity and take it from there. Check all the algebra!
 

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