Filter that can filter out all but the smallest particles

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the mechanisms and technologies behind filters that claim to filter out all but the smallest particles, such as oxygen and water. Participants explore various types of filtration methods, their applications, and the principles behind their effectiveness.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions how filters can exclude only the smallest particles, suggesting a hypothetical grid of tiny pins, while others clarify that filters operate through various mechanisms such as absorption, coalescing, and trapping.
  • Reverse osmosis filters are mentioned as having a pore size of 0.001 microns, with a participant expressing curiosity about their creation.
  • Some participants note that high-quality filters are tailored to specific substances, with examples including fuel filters designed to allow certain liquids to pass while blocking particulates.
  • There is a discussion about the importance of filter design, including the manipulation of larger objects to create small spaces and the use of electromagnetic forces or electrostatic behavior in filter effectiveness.
  • One participant emphasizes the dependency of filtration effectiveness on the materials used and their properties, such as size and charge.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views on the mechanisms of filtration, with no clear consensus on a single method or approach. Multiple competing ideas about how filters work and the principles behind their design remain present throughout the discussion.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference various filtration methods and materials without resolving the complexities involved in their design and function. There are mentions of different contexts for filtration, which may influence the effectiveness of the discussed methods.

Pengwuino
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Hey guys i was wondering something. When some product claims it has a filter that can filter out all but the smallest particles (like oxygen or H2O)... how can it do that? I mean i just imagine a huge grid of super duper tiny pins making holes only an atom or 2 wide... obviously that can't be how they do it so how do they do it?
 
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In what context you are speaking? What is the medium that you want to filter? Anyhow, you shouldn't mean it in literal sense. Some filters filter something by absorption, some by coalescing and some by actually trapping etc. For example, carbon molecular seives absorb oxygen and other gases. Hydrophopic filters made up of borosilicate micro glass fibres coalesce water particles and filter them out.

Reverse osmosys system filters have a pore size of 0.001 microns and trap ions.
 
quark said:
Reverse osmosys system filters have a pore size of 0.001 microns and trap ions.


You mean 1 nanometer? I wonder how they create such things.
 
Well I've seen stuff on say, modern marvels and the CG they use shows like, a grid system and then you see the molecules come by and some can't get throug the holes and others can.

Are they just not being literally serious?
 
Pengwuino said:
Well I've seen stuff on say, modern marvels and the CG they use shows like, a grid system and then you see the molecules come by and some can't get throug the holes and others can.
A really high-quality filter is actually tailored to the thing that it's supposed to keep out. If you want to exclude bowling balls, page-wire is great. Fuel filters in a car are made to let gasoline (or deisel) pass with the least resistance possible while keeping out any particulate matter. This of course let's water pass as well, so other methods are used to keep that out. Chemical filters use absorption, adsorbtion, or neutralization of the offending substance. The trick is to make the porousity just right so that it doesn't clog up with things smaller than the target. The best natural filter is the part of the water cycle where rocks take out the big stuff, gravel the medium stuff, and sand the small stuff. By the time the water gets back into a stream or river, it's pure.
 
quark said:
In what context you are speaking? What is the medium that you want to filter? Anyhow, you shouldn't mean it in literal sense. Some filters filter something by absorption, some by coalescing and some by actually trapping etc. For example, carbon molecular seives absorb oxygen and other gases. Hydrophopic filters made up of borosilicate micro glass fibres coalesce water particles and filter them out.

Reverse osmosys system filters have a pore size of 0.001 microns and trap ions.

Just to clarify this; it's dependent upon the materials chosen to make the filter and what properties you wish to use for the filtration (size, charge, etc.).

Here's a site with a fairly simple explanation of nanomaterials used for making filters and other types of porous membranes.
http://www.rpi.edu/dept/materials/COURSES/NANO/narang/
 
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Other factors help explain the ability to create micro-sized 'spaces' or holes. for instance, many filter designs use fibres which can be quite long or large, but closely packed so that the spaces between are very small. You don't actually have to 'drill' holes that small, and the sizes can be achieved by manipulation of much larger objects to make the spaces.

Also, nets can be made by a combination of physical holes and electromagnetic forces, or electrostatic behaviour of polar molecules and orientations. Surface catalysts work on similar principles.

The size of the holes you make is only really limited by your cleverness in design.
 

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