Let An Bn and Cn be sequences satisfying An<=Bn<=Cn

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around proving that if sequences An, Bn, and Cn satisfy An ≤ Bn ≤ Cn for all natural numbers n, and if An converges to x and Cn converges to x, then Bn must also converge to x. The scope includes mathematical reasoning and the application of the squeeze theorem.

Discussion Character

  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes using the squeeze theorem to show that Bn converges to x based on the inequalities and limits of An and Cn.
  • Another participant questions the clarity of the original post, suggesting that the statement of Bn converging to x is essentially the squeeze theorem itself, implying no proof is needed.
  • A different participant emphasizes the importance of using the rigorous N-ε definition of limits in proofs.
  • One participant points out that the proof seems to assume that the limit of Bn exists, which is a critical point in the argument.
  • A later reply acknowledges that the original method may not be sufficient due to the assumption about the existence of the limit of Bn and the potential fallacy of trying to prove the squeeze theorem using itself.
  • Another participant reiterates that the reasoning used after a certain point does not invoke the squeeze theorem but relies on the axioms of real numbers.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the sufficiency of the original proof method, with some agreeing that it lacks rigor while others believe the proof is valid. There is no consensus on the correctness of the original approach or the necessity of the squeeze theorem in this context.

Contextual Notes

Participants note limitations regarding the assumptions about the existence of limits and the reliance on the axioms of real numbers, which may affect the validity of the proof.

steven187
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hello all

been workin on this problem:
let An Bn and Cn be sequences satisfying
An<=Bn<=Cn for all n an element of the natural numbers
suppose that An->x and Cn->x, where x is a real number show that Bn->x
this is how i did it


[tex]A_n\le B_n\le C_n \forall n\epsilon N[/tex]

[tex]A_n\longrightarrow x,C_n\longrightarrow x\ \forall x\epsilon \Re[/tex]

[tex]\lim_{n\to\infty}A_n\le\lim_{n\to\infty}B_n\le\lim_{n\to\infty}C_n[/tex]

[tex]x\le\lim_{n\to\infty}B_n\le x[/tex]

therefore by the squeeze theorem [tex]B_n\longrightarrow x[/tex]

would this be correct, and are there any other ways of proving it?

thanxs
 
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What you wrote it confusing, for many reasons. First, the question

"Let An Bn and Cn be sequences satisfying An<=Bn<=Cn for all n an element of the natural numbers. Suppose that An->x and Cn->x, where x is a real number. Show that Bn->x."

must mean "prove the squeeze theorem". Otherwise, Bn->x is just the statement of the squeeze theorem and there's nothing to show at all.

Secondly, line #2 makes no sense (because if the limit of An exists, it is unique), but it was probably a typo.

Thirdly, you invoque the squeeze theorem after line #4 tu justify that Bn->x. But this is just a consequence of the axiom of the real numbers according to which for all x,y in R, we can only have one of the 3: x<y, x=y, x>y. So if we encounter an inequality of the type [itex]y\leq x \leq y[/itex], it must be that y=x. So lim Bn = x.


But in essence, your had the right proof.
 
The real rigourous proof involves the old N and [itex]\epsilon[/itex] though... because that's the language to use when one talks about limits.
 
It seems to me that this proof assumes that [itex]\lim_{n\rightarrow\infty}B_n[/itex] exists.
 
hello guys

well I had proved it through N-E method in which was succesful, based upon your replies above, would i be right to say that my original method is not sufficiant enough to prove it since i have used the assumption that the limit of Bn exists and that i have used the sqeeze theorem while trying to prove the sqeeze theorem, which is i think they call a fallacy,

steven
 
I already pointed out that what you did after line #4 is not used the squeeze theorem but simply the axioms of the real numbers.

But I think master coda has a good point.. and in an exam that proof wouldn't be worth many points imo.
 

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