Solving a Tricky Integral Problem

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around solving a complex integral involving trigonometric functions and a parameter \( k \). Participants explore various methods for integration, including potential substitutions and contour integration, while expressing uncertainty about their approaches and the implications of their findings.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant seeks assistance with the integral \(\int\frac {k(\sin^2\theta-\cos^2\theta-k\sin^4\theta)} {(1-k\sin^2\theta)^{\frac {3}{2}}} d\theta\), expressing a desire to understand the solution process rather than just obtaining an answer from Mathematica.
  • Another participant shares Mathematica's output for the integral, noting that it does not provide a method for solving it.
  • A suggestion is made to simplify the integral into two alternative forms, although the participant feels they may be missing an obvious step.
  • Contour integration is proposed as a potential method, but concerns are raised about the lack of limits in the original integral.
  • One participant clarifies that the integral does have limits from 0 to \(\phi\), which may influence the choice of integration technique.
  • A mathematical identity is introduced to rewrite the denominator of the integrand, with a participant indicating they may explore further simplifications later.
  • Another participant warns about the complexities of contour integration, particularly regarding multi-valued functions and suggests a resource for learning more about it.
  • A method involving the substitution \(\tan \frac{x}{2}=t\) is proposed for integrals of the form \(\int R(\sin x, \cos x)dx\), aiming to reduce the integral to a rational function.
  • One participant expresses difficulty with the resulting integral after substitution and seeks further advice on how to proceed.
  • A correction is made regarding the nature of the integral, noting it involves an irrational function due to the exponent in the denominator.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express various methods and approaches to tackle the integral, but there is no consensus on a definitive solution or method. Multiple competing views and uncertainties remain throughout the discussion.

Contextual Notes

Participants mention limitations in their knowledge of contour integration and the implications of the integral's limits, which may affect their approaches. The discussion also highlights the complexity of the integral due to the irrational function involved.

melknin
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I'm working on a problem that I've almost completed except for a single integral that I can't seem to figure out. I can plug it into mathematica and get the answer, but I'd really like to know how to work it out. So if anyone can walk me through it, I'd appreciate it.

[tex]\int\frac {k(\sin^2\theta-\cos^2\theta-k\sin^4\theta)} {(1-k\sin^2\theta)^{\frac {3}{2}}} d\theta[/tex]

Thanks in advance!
 
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Mathematica says the solution is:

[tex]-\frac{k \sin 2\theta}{\sqrt{4 - 2k + 2k \cos 2\theta}}[/tex]

That doesn't give you a method, though.
 
It may or may not help to simplify it to something like

[tex]k\int {\frac{{\cos {2\theta } - k\sin ^4 \theta }}<br /> {{\left( {1 - k\sin ^2 \theta } \right)^{\frac{3}{2}} }}d\theta }[/tex]
or
[tex]k\int {\frac{{\sin ^2 \theta \left( {1 - k\sin ^2 \theta } \right) - \cos ^2 \theta }}{{\left( {1 - k\sin ^2 \theta } \right)^{\frac{3}{2}} }}d\theta }[/tex]

*Well...it still feels like I'm missing something obvious ~
 
Last edited:
This looks like a prime candidate for contour integration on the complex plane...
 
James Jackson said:
This looks like a prime candidate for contour integration on the complex plane...

Ahh--no wonder my CalcII couldn't do it! :-p

And I thought it was a basic CalcII integral!
 
Last edited:
Thing is, contour integrals deal with definite integration. The integral stated has no limits...
 
Limits

Hmm, don't think I've learned about contour integration yet. I'll look that up. I didn't mention it before, but the integral I'm working with actually does have limits from 0 to [tex]\phi[/tex] if that helps.
 
Now, just one piece here:
By the identity [tex]\sin^{2}\theta=\frac{1-\cos(2\theta)}{2}[/tex]
the denominator of the integrand may be rewritten as:
[tex](1-k\sin^{2}\theta)^{\frac{3}{2}}=\frac{(4-2k+2k\cos(2\theta))^{\frac{3}{2}}}{8}[/tex]
since [tex]4^{\frac{3}{2}}=8[/tex]

Perhaps I'll try to do something further later on.
 
Last edited:
melknin said:
Hmm, don't think I've learned about contour integration yet. I'll look that up. I didn't mention it before, but the integral I'm working with actually does have limits from 0 to [tex]\phi[/tex] if that helps.

Does phi have an upper limit? You've got to be careful with contour integration with the values of functions, what with functions such as log z being multi-valued at certain points (leading to lovely things such as branch points, Reimann surfaces, that kind of jazz).

I suggest Boas (Mathematical Methods in the Physical Sciences) for an introduction to Contour Integration (look at Cauchy Residue Theorem - an integral and beautiful part of solving things like this).
 
  • #10
Integrals of type [tex]\int R(\sin x, \cos x)dx[/tex], where R is rational function are solved by following substitution [tex]\tan \frac{x}{2}=t[/tex], thus, [tex]\sin x=\frac{2t}{1+t^2},\quad \cos x=\frac{1-t^2}{1+t^2},\quad dx=2\frac{dt}{1+t^2}[/tex], and the previous integral is reduced to integral of a rational function which I hope you know how to solve.
 
  • #11
Hmm, that seems to make sense, but it gets me to an integral I'm not having much more luck with. The only thing I can think of is some other subsitution that I can't figure out.

[tex]- 2k\int {\frac{{t^8 - 4t^6 + 2(8k - 5)t^4 - 4t^2 + 1}}{{(1 + t^2 )^3 (1 - \frac{{4kt^2 }}{{(1 + t^2 )^2 }})^\frac {3}{2} }}}[/tex]

Making [tex]u=1 - \frac{{4kt^2 }}{{(1 + t^2 )^2 }}[/tex] almost seems to work, but not quite. Any advice on what to do from here?
 
Last edited:
  • #12
I've misread your integral, it has [tex]\frac{3}{2}[/tex] exponent in denominator so it is irational not rational function. I guess I'll have to take paper and pencil. If I get to some solution, I will post it.
 

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