Direct injection spark ignition with gasoline engine

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the potential impact of achieving complete direct injection spark ignition in gasoline engines operating on the Otto cycle, particularly regarding high pressure ratios and their implications for the automotive industry.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant speculates on the automotive industry's future if complete direct injection spark ignition with high pressure ratios is realized.
  • Another participant argues that achieving high pressure ratios is already possible with Diesel cycle engines, suggesting that spark ignition would be redundant in such cases.
  • A different participant clarifies that the Diesel cycle operates under the Brayton cycle, while the Otto cycle is more efficient due to pressure increases during combustion and the potential for energy extraction from exhaust gases.
  • Further elaboration is provided on the relationship between the Otto and Diesel cycles, noting that extending the compression curve of the Otto cycle could yield characteristics of the Diesel cycle, and discussing the role of fuel injection timing in controlling combustion.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the relationship between the Otto and Diesel cycles, with some asserting that the proposed direct injection method aligns more closely with Diesel principles, while others maintain the focus on the Otto cycle's efficiency. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the implications of these cycles for direct injection technology.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved assumptions regarding the efficiency comparisons between the Otto and Diesel cycles, as well as the technical feasibility of achieving high pressure ratios in gasoline engines without transitioning to Diesel cycle characteristics.

sid_galt
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If someday complete direct injection spark ignition with gasoline engine with Otto cycle is achieved so that very high pressure ratios are possible, what would be the impact on the automotive industry?
 
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You can do that now, and you'd have a Diesel Cycle engine. That is the constraint that defines Diesel. The spark would simply be a redundancy.

KM
 
But the diesel cycle engine runs on the brayton cycle. I am talking about the Otto cycle which is more efficient since the pressure rises while combustion and further energy can be extracted from the exhaust if it is not fully expanded to atmospheric pressure.
 
sid_galt said:
But the diesel cycle engine runs on the brayton cycle. I am talking about the Otto cycle which is more efficient since the pressure rises while combustion and further energy can be extracted from the exhaust if it is not fully expanded to atmospheric pressure.

The Diesel engine runs on the Diesel Cycle. All you have to do is compare the P-V curves of the Otto and Diesel Cycles, and you will see the link. If you extend the 'compression' curve of the Otto cycle past the usual 'ignition point', you'll get exactly the curve of the Diesel Cycle. (Not quite that simple, to be sure.)

Both the Otto and the Diesel Cycles have the common characteristic of accomplishing the Intake, the Compression, the Combustion, the Expansion and the Exhaust in the Same place (Cylinder Chamber?). The Brayton Cycle (Which I personally prefer) Moves the air from place to place to accomplish these stages. To go from Otto to Diesel Cycle (as your suggestion does) only requires that fuel 'injection' be held off until you are ready for combustion, thus avoiding premature ignition (called Dieseling). The reason for spark plugs in an Otto Cycle, is just to get control over when combustion occurs, rather than having pre-ignition (Dieseling). The other way to control when combustion occurs, is to hold off fuel injection; exactly what a Diesel does, and this allows greater compression ratios. You described conversion from Otto to Diesel Cycle.

KM
 
Last edited:
Thanks for the help
 

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