Finding Optimal Angle for Max Range of Cannonball

  • Context: Graduate 
  • Thread starter Thread starter bomba923
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Error
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around finding the optimal angle for maximizing the range of a cannonball launched from a height with an initial velocity. Participants explore the mathematical modeling of projectile motion, including parametric equations and derivatives, while addressing potential errors in the formulation of the equations.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a parametric equation for the cannonball's motion and derives an expression for the range, seeking the angle that maximizes it.
  • Another participant suggests that there may be an error in the formulation, questioning whether the term inside the square root should be positive rather than negative.
  • A third participant agrees with the previous suggestion, indicating that the denominator should reflect a different coefficient for the gravitational term.
  • A later reply confirms the need for a positive term in the determinant and proposes a revised equation for the range, leading to a new expression for the optimal angle.
  • One participant expresses confusion about their calculations and seeks assistance in solving for the optimal angle, questioning whether there was an error in their approach.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the correct formulation of the equations, as there are competing views regarding the terms involved in the projectile motion equations. The discussion remains unresolved with multiple perspectives on the optimal angle calculation.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved mathematical steps and potential errors in the derivations presented by participants, particularly regarding the signs and coefficients in the equations. The discussion reflects a dependency on the definitions and assumptions made in the modeling process.

bomba923
Messages
759
Reaction score
0
With no air resistance, I shoot a cannonball from a building of height [itex]h[/itex], with an initial velocity [itex]v_0[/itex] at an angle of elevation [itex]\theta[/itex]. I'm trying to find the optimal angle for maximum range. I will use a parametric equation to represent the cannonball location at the time [itex]t[/itex]. So,
*The cannonball's position is represented by the parametric function (well, obviously the initial position is at [itex]\left( {0,h} \right)[/itex]),
[tex]\left\{ \begin{gathered}<br /> x = v_0 t\cos \theta \hfill \\<br /> y = h + v_0 t\sin \theta - \frac{{gt^2 }}{2} \hfill \\ \end{gathered} \right\}[/tex]
and so time it takes for the cannonball to hit the ground is
[tex]h + v_0 t\sin \theta - \frac{{gt^2 }}{2} = 0 \Rightarrow t = \frac{{ - v_0 \sin \theta + \sqrt {v_0^2 \sin ^2 \theta - 2gh} }}{{2h}}[/tex]
*Thus, the range of the projectile is
[tex]x = v_0 \cos \theta \frac{{\sqrt {v_0^2 \sin ^2 \theta - 2gh} - v_0 \sin \theta }}{{2h}} = \frac{{v_0 \cos \theta }}{{2h}}\left( {\sqrt {v_0^2 \sin ^2 \theta - 2gh} - v_0 \sin \theta } \right)[/tex]
**But, which [tex]\theta[/tex] will maximize the range?
[tex]\frac{{d}}{{d\theta }}\left[ {\frac{{v_0 \cos \theta }}{{2h}}\left( {\sqrt {v_0^2 \sin ^2 \theta - 2gh} - v_0 \sin \theta } \right)} \right] = 0 \Rightarrow[/tex]
[tex]\frac{1}{{2h}} \cdot \left[ {v_0 \cos \theta \left( {\frac{{2v_0^2 \sin \theta \cos \theta }}{{2\sqrt {v_0^2 \sin ^2 \theta - 2gh} }} - v_0 \cos \theta } \right) - v_0 \sin \theta \left( {\sqrt {v_0^2 \sin ^2 \theta - 2gh} - v_0 \sin \theta } \right)} \right] = 0 \Rightarrow[/tex]
*Well, I can factor out [itex]v_0 /2h[/itex], and set what remains equal to zero:
[tex]{v_0 \cos ^2 \theta \left( {\frac{{v_0 \sin \theta }}{{\sqrt {v_0^2 \sin ^2 \theta - 2gh} }} - 1} \right) - \sin \theta \left( {\sqrt {v_0^2 \sin ^2 \theta - 2gh} - v_0 \sin \theta } \right)} = 0 \Rightarrow[/tex]
[tex]\frac{{v_0^2 \sin \theta \cos ^2 \theta }}{{\sqrt {v_0^2 \sin ^2 \theta - 2gh} }} - v_0 \cos ^2 \theta + v_0 \sin ^2 \theta - \sin \theta \sqrt {v_0^2 \sin ^2 \theta - 2gh} = 0 \Rightarrow[/tex]
[tex]v_0 \left( {\frac{{v_0 \sin \theta \cos ^2 \theta }}{{\sqrt {v_0^2 \sin ^2 \theta - 2gh} }} - \cos 2\theta } \right) = \sin \theta \sqrt {v_0^2 \sin ^2 \theta - 2gh} \Rightarrow[/tex]
*Then I multiply both sides by [tex]{\sqrt {v_0^2 \sin ^2 \theta - 2gh} }[/tex] and then divide each side by [itex]v_0[/itex]
[tex]v_0 \sqrt {v_0^2 \sin ^2 \theta - 2gh} \left( {\frac{{v_0 \sin \theta \cos ^2 \theta }}{{\sqrt {v_0^2 \sin ^2 \theta - 2gh} }} - \cos 2\theta } \right) = \sin \theta \left( {v_0^2 \sin ^2 \theta - 2gh} \right)[/tex]
[tex]v_0 \cos ^2 \theta - \left( {\cos 2\theta } \right)\sqrt {v_0^2 - 2gh\csc ^2 \theta } = v_0 \sin ^2 \theta - 2gh \Rightarrow[/tex]
[tex]\begin{gathered}<br /> \sqrt {v_0^2 - 2gh\csc ^2 \theta } = 2gh + 1 \Rightarrow \hfill \\<br /> v_0^2 - 2gh\csc ^2 \theta = 4gh\left( {gh + 1} \right) + 1 \Rightarrow \hfill \\<br /> - 2gh\csc ^2 \theta = v_0^2 - 4gh\left( {gh + 1} \right) - 1 \Rightarrow \hfill \\<br /> \frac{1}{{\sin \theta }} = \sqrt {\frac{{v_0^2 - 4gh\left( {gh + 1} \right) - 1}}{{2gh}}} \Rightarrow \theta = \sin ^{ - 1} \left\{ {\left[ {\frac{{v_0^2 - 4gh\left( {gh + 1} \right) - 1}}{{2gh}}} \right]^{ - \frac{1}{2}} } \right\} \hfill \\ \end{gathered}[/tex]

But I try a test with [itex]h = 50m,\;v_0 = 100\frac{m}{s}[/itex], and the optimal angle is not the one solved by the equation!
 
Last edited:
Physics news on Phys.org
Shouldn't that be +2gh rather than -2gh within the square root? I would rewrite the quadratic with a positive t^2 term.
 
Last edited:
The denominator should be twice the t^2 term, which gives -g rather than 2h.
 
Of course! The determinant must have +2gh and the denominator must have -g. Taking that into consideration:

[tex]\begin{gathered}<br /> \left\{ \begin{gathered}<br /> x = v_0 t\cos \theta \hfill \\<br /> y = h + v_0 t\sin \theta - \frac{{gt^2 }}<br /> {2} \hfill \\ <br /> \end{gathered} \right\} \Rightarrow \hfill \\<br /> y = 0,\;t = \frac{{v_0 \sin \theta + \sqrt {v_0^2 \sin ^2 \theta + 2gh} }}<br /> {g} \Rightarrow \hfill \\<br /> x = v_0 \cos \theta \frac{{v_0 \sin \theta + \sqrt {v_0^2 \sin ^2 \theta + 2gh} }}<br /> {g} = \frac{{v_0 }}<br /> {g}\left( {v_0 \sin \theta \cos \theta + \left( {\cos \theta } \right)\sqrt {v_0^2 \sin ^2 \theta + 2gh} } \right) \hfill \\ \end{gathered} \Rightarrow[/tex]
[tex]\begin{gathered}<br /> \frac{{dx}}{{d\theta }} = \frac{{v_0 }}{g}\left[ {v_0 \cos 2\theta + \frac{{v_0^2 \sin \theta \cos ^2 \theta }}{{\sqrt {v_0^2 \sin ^2 \theta + 2gh} }} - \left( {\sin \theta } \right)\sqrt {v_0^2 \sin ^2 \theta + 2gh} } \right] = 0 \Rightarrow \hfill \\<br /> v_0 \cos 2\theta + \frac{{v_0^2 \sin \theta \cos ^2 \theta }}<br /> {{\sqrt {v_0^2 \sin ^2 \theta + 2gh} }} - \left( {\sin \theta } \right)\sqrt {v_0^2 \sin ^2 \theta + 2gh} = 0 \Rightarrow \hfill \\ \end{gathered}[/tex]

*Then I multiply both sides of the equation by
[tex]\frac{{\sqrt {v_0^2 \sin ^2 \theta + 2gh} }}{{v_0 \sin \theta }}[/tex]
to get

[tex]\begin{gathered}<br /> \left( {\cos 2\theta } \right)\sqrt {v_0^2 + 2gh\csc ^2 \theta } + v_0 \cos 2\theta + 2v_0^{ - 1} gh = 0 \Rightarrow \hfill \\<br /> - \sqrt {v_0^2 + 2gh\csc ^2 \theta } = v_0 + 2v_0^{ - 1} gh\sec 2\theta \Rightarrow \csc ^2 \theta = 2\sec 2\theta \left( {1 + v_0^{ - 2} gh\sec 2\theta } \right) \Rightarrow \hfill \\<br /> \cot ^2 \theta - 1 = 2\left( {1 + v_0^{ - 2} gh\sec 2\theta } \right) \Rightarrow \cot ^2 \theta - 2v_0^{ - 2} gh\sec 2\theta = 3 \Rightarrow ?? \hfill \\ <br /> \end{gathered}[/tex]

Hmm...and now I'm stuck! :redface: Any ideas?
 
Please help :cry:...any ideas?
How do I solve for [tex]\theta[/tex]?
--such that
[tex]\frac{{dx}}{{d\theta }} = 0[/tex]
?

Was there an error in my second attempt to calculate the [itex]\theta[/itex] such that
[tex]\frac{{dx}}{{d\theta }} = 0[/tex] :confused:
 
Last edited:

Similar threads

  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
3K
  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
4K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
4K
  • · Replies 29 ·
Replies
29
Views
6K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
4K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
5K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 21 ·
Replies
21
Views
4K
Replies
4
Views
3K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
3K