Point Vectors in 3D Space: Are Cross Products of Two Vectors Equal?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the properties of cross products of vectors defined by points in three-dimensional space, specifically whether the magnitudes of the cross products of vectors formed from three points \( P, Q, R \) are equal under certain conditions.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether the equality \( \left\| {\overrightarrow {PQ} \times \overrightarrow {PR} } \right\| = \left\| {\overrightarrow {PQ} \times \overrightarrow {QR} } \right\| \) holds for arbitrary points \( P, Q, R \) in \( \mathbb{R}^3 \).
  • Another participant suggests that many arbitrary choices of points can serve as counterexamples, particularly when \( P \) and \( R \) are the same point, and provides specific examples with coordinates.
  • A later reply confirms the intent to consider distinct points \( P, Q, R \) and reiterates the counterexample using specific coordinates.
  • One participant asserts that the equality is always true and claims that not only the magnitudes but also the resulting vectors are the same, providing an algebraic approach to support this assertion.
  • Another participant expresses a lighthearted acknowledgment of a misunderstanding in the discussion.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach consensus; there are competing views regarding the equality of the magnitudes of the cross products, with some asserting it is always true and others providing counterexamples.

Contextual Notes

Assumptions about the distinctness of points and the conditions under which the equality holds are not fully resolved, leading to ambiguity in the discussion.

bomba923
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If [tex]P , \; Q[/tex] and [tex]R[/tex] each represent a point in [tex]\mathbb{R} ^ 3[/tex], then is it true that

[tex]\left\| {\overrightarrow {PQ} \times \overrightarrow {PR} } \right\| = \left\| {\overrightarrow {PQ} \times \overrightarrow {QR} } \right\| \; {?}[/tex]
 
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Almost any arbitrary choice of points is a counter exemple, the most obvious being with P = R = (0,0,0). If you meant "P,Q,R distincts", try it with P=(0,0,0), Q = (1,0,0), R = (0,3,0).
 
quasar987 said:
Almost any arbitrary choice of points is a counter exemple, the most obvious being with P = R = (0,0,0). If you meant "P,Q,R distincts", try it with P=(0,0,0), Q = (1,0,0), R = (0,3,0).

Right, I meant distinct points P,Q, & R. :shy:
 
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quasar987 said:
Almost any arbitrary choice of points is a counter exemple, the most obvious being with P = R = (0,0,0). If you meant "P,Q,R distincts", try it with P=(0,0,0), Q = (1,0,0), R = (0,3,0).

PQ x PR = (1,0,0) x (0,3,0) = (0,0,3)
PQ x QR = (1,0,0) x (-1,3,0) = (0,0,3)

seem to have the same magnitude...
 
bomba923 said:
If [tex]P , \; Q[/tex] and [tex]R[/tex] each represent a point in [tex]\mathbb{R} ^ 3[/tex], then is it true that

[tex]\left\| {\overrightarrow {PQ} \times \overrightarrow {PR} } \right\| = \left\| {\overrightarrow {PQ} \times \overrightarrow {QR} } \right\| \; {?}[/tex]

It is always true. Furthermore, the resulting vectors are the same, not just their magnitude!
Rewrite your vectors as

[tex]\vec{A} \equiv \overrightarrow{PQ}[/tex],
[tex]\vec{B} \equiv \overrightarrow{PR}[/tex], so that

[tex](\vec{B} - \vec{A}) = \overrightarrow{QR}[/tex].

Take the same cross products algebraically, keeping in mind that
[tex]\vec{A} \times \vec{A} = 0[/tex], and that [tex]\vec{A} \times (\vec{B} - \vec{A}) = (\vec{A} \times \vec{B}) - (\vec{A} \times \vec{A})[/tex].
 
eeek!

Sorry bomba.
 
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