Is my Multivariable Chain Rule Derivation Correct?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the derivation of the multivariable chain rule, specifically in the context of functions of multiple variables. Participants are examining the correctness of a proposed derivation and exploring the implications of differentiating functions that depend on other functions.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a derivation involving the function v(x,y) = u(r(x,y), s(x,y)) and questions the correctness of expressing the partial derivative as ∂²u/∂r² ∂r/∂x.
  • Another participant argues that since u depends on both r and s, the differentiation must account for the dependence of x on s, suggesting a more complex application of the chain rule.
  • A third participant hints at a potential error in the initial derivation, stating that du is not equal to dudu, implying a misunderstanding in the application of derivatives.
  • One participant offers a method involving a tree diagram to visualize the differentiation process for functions of multiple variables, suggesting a systematic approach to finding partial derivatives.
  • Another participant expresses confidence in handling first derivatives but struggles with understanding the relationships in second and third derivatives.
  • A later reply humorously notes that a second derivative is simply the first derivative of the first derivative, indicating a potential oversimplification of the concept.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not appear to reach a consensus on the correctness of the initial derivation. Multiple competing views and uncertainties regarding the application of the chain rule and the handling of derivatives remain evident throughout the discussion.

Contextual Notes

Some participants express uncertainty about the relationships between functions when taking higher-order derivatives, and there are indications of missing assumptions in the derivations presented.

Icebreaker
Please let me know if I derived this correctly (I did it a while back, and can't find the notebook):

[tex]v(x,y)=u(r(x,y),s(x,y))[/tex]

(derivations)

At some point I come across this:

[tex]\frac{\partial}{\partial x} \frac{\partial u}{\partial r}[/tex]

which I wrote as

[tex]\frac{\partial^2 u}{\partial r^2} \frac{\partial r}{\partial x}[/tex]

Is it right?
 
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Since u depends on r and s, and r and s are both functions of x, you are going to have to take into account the dependence of x on s.

For any function φ(x,y), [tex]\frac{\partial \phi}{\partial x}= \frac{\partial \phi}{\partial r}}\frac{\partial r}{\partial x}}+ \frac{\partial \phi}{\partial s}}\frac{\partial s}{\partial x}}[/tex].

Now put [tex]\frac{\partial u}{\partial r}}[/tex] in place of φ
You get [tex]\frac{\partial^2 \phi}{\partial r^2}}\frac{\partial r}{\partial x}}+ \frac{\partial^2 \phi}{\partial r\partial s}}\frac{\partial s}{\partial x}}[/tex].
 
Last edited by a moderator:
hint

I don't think so since du is not equal to dudu
 
If you only need to differentiate once then the following procedure might come in handy. Say for example you have f(x,y,z) where x,y,z are functions of s and t and you needed to the find the partial derivative of f wrts. What you could do is draw a tree diagram.

You standard with f and the top and draw out three branches, one to each of x, y and z. In a similar manner you do the same with each of x, y and z. That is, draw two branches from each of x, y and z to s and t. You should get a pyramid like diagram after you do this. To find [tex]\frac{{\partial f}}{{\partial s}}[/tex] all you would need to do is draw the appropriate path/s. In other words you just go from f along any path where the end point is s. You then 'sum your paths.' The only restriction is that you keep going downward.

In this case, you would get:

[tex] \frac{{\partial f}}{{\partial s}} = \frac{{\partial f}}{{\partial x}}\frac{{\partial x}}{{\partial s}} + \frac{{\partial f}}{{\partial y}}\frac{{\partial y}}{{\partial s}} + \frac{{\partial f}}{{\partial z}}\frac{{\partial z}}{{\partial s}}[/tex]

someone please correct me if my answer is incorrect because I didn't write it down on paper. :biggrin:
 
The chain rule for the first derivative I can handle. It's when you have the second and third derivatives that I can't follow which function is related to what.
 
A second derivative is just the first derivative of what you compute for the first derivative. :-p
 

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