Primitive variables in Fluid Mechanics

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the concept of primitive variables in fluid mechanics, specifically focusing on velocity and pressure. Participants explore the definitions, implications, and derivations related to these variables, questioning their status as "primitive" and whether other sets of primitive variables exist. The conversation touches on theoretical aspects and the governing equations of fluid flow.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that velocity and pressure are the primitive variables in fluid mechanics, questioning the meaning of "primitive" and how these variables relate to others in fluid flow.
  • One participant suggests that knowing velocity and pressure allows one to manage fluid flow problems, implying that other variables can be derived from them.
  • Another participant challenges the notion that everything can be derived from velocity and pressure, stating that the governing equations are often expressed in terms of conserved variables like mass, momentum, and energy.
  • There is a suggestion that the interpretation of governing equations influences the identification of primitive variables, with some arguing for a broader definition that includes mass alongside velocity and pressure.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the definition and implications of primitive variables, with no consensus reached on whether velocity and pressure alone are sufficient or if other variables should be considered. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the interpretation of governing equations and the nature of primitive variables.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight that the understanding of primitive variables may depend on the form of the governing equations and the context in which fluid mechanics is applied. There are references to conservation laws and the role of energy equations, indicating that assumptions about the system may affect the discussion.

hanson
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Hello!
I know that the primitive variables in fluid mechanics are velocity and pressure. But why?
I don't see how "primitive" these variables are...What does it mean by a "primitive variable"? Is that all other variables in a fluid flow can be derived from velocity and pressure? Is there any other set of primitive variable? Lastly, how do you know velocity and pressure are primituve variables?
 
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can anyone kindly address this?
 
I am not aware of such terminology but they are the main variables. You can manage any fluid flow problem if you know these two things.
 
quark, thanks! I was afarid that no one is going to help me out. :frown:

Why can we manage all flow problems if we know these 2 things?
 
hanson said:
Hello!
I know that the primitive variables in fluid mechanics are velocity and pressure. But why?
I don't see how "primitive" these variables are...What does it mean by a "primitive variable"? Is that all other variables in a fluid flow can be derived from velocity and pressure? Is there any other set of primitive variable? Lastly, how do you know velocity and pressure are primituve variables?

Try this ...
When you try to solve a fluid field without energy equation (heat transfer)? Conservation of mass and Conservation of momentum (Derived from Newton's Second law) are sufficient. You will find the main variables are pressure and velocity. With pressure and velocity information you can find the fluid field. BESIDES all the properties.
 
QUOTE=hanson;752113]Hello!
I know that the primitive variables in fluid mechanics are velocity and pressure. But why?
I don't see how "primitive" these variables are...What does it mean by a "primitive variable"? Is that all other variables in a fluid flow can be derived from velocity and pressure? Is there any other set of primitive variable? Lastly, how do you know velocity and pressure are primituve variables?[/QUOTE]
 
what is primitive variable? i know it is velocity and pressure,but why it is? Is that all other variables in a fluid flow can be derived from velocity and pressure?
 
It depends on what form the governing equations are written in, and how we interpret them.

Typically, when we write the Navier-Stokes in strongly conservative form, they are in terms of the conserved variables. That is, mass, momentum and energy. However, one doesn't typically think of flows in terms of momentum and energy, we would prefer to use velocity and pressure. So, the primitive variables are mass, velocity and pressure.

You are opposite in thinking that everything can be derived from velocity and pressure. It is in fact that everything can be derived from momentum and energy (with some other variables of course).
 

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