Donkey for a cart and the carrot for a magnet

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around a hypothetical scenario involving a cart and a magnet, drawing an analogy to a donkey and a carrot. Participants explore whether the cart would move towards the magnet under various conditions, focusing on the implications of magnetic attraction and the physical properties of the objects involved.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest that if the magnet is rigidly attached to the cart, the cart will not move due to the forces acting on the system being balanced.
  • Others argue that if there is a gap between the magnet and the cart, magnetic attraction could cause movement, depending on the materials involved.
  • One participant highlights the importance of the cart's material, noting that different magnetic effects (paramagnetic, ferromagnetic, and diamagnetic) could influence the outcome.
  • A later reply emphasizes Newton's Third Law, stating that the forces acting on the cart and magnet would cancel each other out if they are rigidly attached.
  • Another participant humorously suggests that if movement were possible as proposed, it would negate the need for an engine in a car with a magnet attached.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on whether the cart would move towards the magnet, with no consensus reached. Some support the idea that movement is impossible under certain conditions, while others maintain that movement could occur if specific criteria are met.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes assumptions about the rigidity of the attachment between the cart and magnet, the nature of the materials involved, and the presence of any gaps that could affect magnetic attraction. These factors remain unresolved and are critical to the arguments presented.

Atilla1982
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Me and my buddy had a discussion the other day.
Imagine the scenario with the donkey that has a danglin carrot in front of him. If we swap the donkey for a cart and the carrot for a magnet, what would happen?
My buddy was pretty sure that the cart would move, and I thought that it wouldn't. So who is right?
 
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If the conditions were such that the two objects were magnetically attracted, they would not move (roll) if the magnet is rigidly attached to the cart by some kind of overhang. If the magnet is not attached to the cart in any way then there will be some attraction.
 
yeah, there would be an overhang. The magnet and cart would be one, but there's a gap between them. My friend is still convinced that the cart will roll anyway. Can anyone please explain why it won' t ?
 
What the cart is made of is important, as to whether you get paramagnetic or ferromagnetic effects.

It depends whether you mean 'will the cart will move', or 'will there be a magnetic force'. Also remember there will always be very weak diamagnetic effects, because all substances are diamagnetic.

If you're talking about a four-wheeled horse of Troy to substitute for your donkey, and a carrot-shaped magnet, the cart won't move. But if the cart is an iron Matchbox car, and your magnet is very strong, it will...
 
If the magnet and cart are rigidly attached, then there's something holding them apart. So all that will happen is the stuff between the magnet and the cart will get squashed. If it's rigid, it can't get squashed. So nothing moves.
 
If it were true that you could get something to move as your friend proposes, you could weld a magnet on a stick to your car, and you wouldn't need an engine.
 
Atilla1982 said:
yeah, there would be an overhang. The magnet and cart would be one, but there's a gap between them. My friend is still convinced that the cart will roll anyway. Can anyone please explain why it won' t ?
Simple answer : Newton's Third Law. The force pulling the cart forward to the magnet = force pulling the magnet bacwards to the cart. Since the magnet is rigidly attached to the cart, this force is transferred to the cart. The total force on the whole system is thus, ZERO. Momentum is conserved - nothing happens.
 
Thanx a lot all. I guess gokul's answer will put an end to our discussion, and my friend's arguments :smile:
 

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