Turning a ball inside out without dissecting

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    Ball Turning
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the possibility of turning a ball inside out without dissecting it, touching on concepts from topology and related mathematical theorems. Participants explore the implications of such transformations and reference historical mathematical figures and theories.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant claims that Newton proved it is possible to turn a ball inside out using calculus, which is challenged by another participant who states that this concept is rooted in topology and not related to Newton.
  • Another participant explains that the transformation requires the assumption that one piece of the ball can pass through another, highlighting the complexities involved with an analogy of a string circle.
  • A participant recalls the "Banach-Tarski Theorem," questioning its relation to the original topic.
  • One participant mentions a visualization technique developed by a blind mathematician, Bernard Morin, based on earlier work by Arnold Shapiro.
  • Several participants share links to external resources that elaborate on the discussed concepts.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the relationship between the ball transformation and historical mathematical figures, indicating that there is no consensus on the initial claim regarding Newton. The discussion includes multiple competing views and remains unresolved regarding the specifics of the transformation process.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the need for assumptions regarding the manipulation of the ball's surface and the implications of non-differentiable points in the transformation process. The discussion also references complex mathematical subsets involved in the Banach-Tarski Theorem.

san_1420
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Is it true that Newton proved that it is possible to turn a ball inside out without dissecting it using calculus.
 
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No, that's not correct. This is way after Newton! What you are talking about a problem in topology. You have to assume that it is possible to pass one piece of the ball through another piece of the ball. If it sounds like it would be easy to do it in that case, think again! As an analogy, take a circle made out of string. Now take one side of the circle and pass it outside the other side. You can do that easily by "cheating"- instead of going through the string just go over it. But notice what happens- you get two little "loops" at each end of the overlap. You can't continue to completely reverse the circle with those loops becoming sharp points- a non-differentiable point that is not allowed.

I remember seeing a movie of this. Imagine that the outside of the ball is red and the inside is blue. Through a series of tricky moves, you get a situation in which exactly half the surface is red and half blue. Then you reverse it but apply the reverse moves to the blue- so you wind up with the blue on the outside!

I wish to Hades I could remember the name of the mathematician who came up with the process. If I remember correctly he was blind!
 
When my uncle was in grad. school I remember him telling me about something that seems similar called the "Banach-Tarski Theorem," but I have no idea if it's the same thing you're talking about.
 
Thank you all for contributing.

I guess I will have to go back to good old textbook on Topology.

Example with the string was real eye opener.

But that leads to another question in a 2- D world ,would
we able to cheat with the string as before
 
Last edited:
I found this site:
http://www.xs4all.nl/~alife/sphere1.htm
 
Last edited by a moderator:
The "Banach-Tarski" Theorem (often called the "Banach-Tarski paradox"!) says that it is possible to divide a unit sphere into subset such that by rigid motions the subsets can be reassembled into two unit spheres! Of course the subsets are very complex- not intervals or anything nice like that.
 
Galileo said:
I found this site:
http://www.xs4all.nl/~alife/sphere1.htm
That explains it .Thanks
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Thanks for the link, Galileo.

This is who I was thinking of:
It was not until the 1970s that
the (blind !) mathematician Bernard Morin came up with a visualization,
based on work by Arnold Shapiro.
 

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