Modeling a Matched HF Circuit with SPICE: The Role of Source Resistance

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around simulating a high-frequency (HF) circuit matched to 50 ohms using SPICE, particularly focusing on the role of source resistance and how to accurately model the circuit components, including the source and load. The context includes theoretical considerations and practical modeling techniques.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether a 50 ohm resistor should be used in series with the source to simulate the output resistance of a signal source matched to 50 ohms.
  • Another participant suggests that a 50 ohm resistor can model both the coaxial cable and the load, referring to it as a "dummy load," while also emphasizing the importance of including an antenna in the simulation.
  • A participant clarifies that they are working on magnetically coupled RFID rather than traditional antennas and seeks to understand the relationship between the series resistor and the source's output impedance.
  • It is proposed that an ideal RF voltage source with a series 50 ohm resistor can effectively model the RF signal source, which drives a 50 ohm resistor to ground for the transmission line and its termination.
  • A more complex modeling approach is suggested, involving a transmission line model in SPICE and a complex impedance at the end to more accurately represent the antenna and analyze SWR and power radiated.
  • Further detail in the SPICE model is discussed, including a more accurate representation of the transmitting amplifier beyond just the ideal RF voltage source and 50 ohm output impedance.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the necessity and implications of modeling the source resistance and the relationship between the source's output impedance and the series resistor. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the best approach to accurately depict the source in the simulation.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved assumptions regarding the definitions of source resistance and output impedance, as well as the implications of using different modeling techniques in SPICE. The discussion does not reach a consensus on the optimal modeling strategy.

temujin
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Dear Group,

I need to simulate a HF circuit (matched to 50 ohm ) connected (via a 50 ohm coax cable) to a signal source with 50 ohm output resistance.
Simulating this with e.g. Spice, should I use a 50 ohm resistor in series with the source?

Does the fact that the source is matched to 50 ohm output resistance have anything to do with any equivalent resistance connected in series with the source?

hope I managed to express myself properly here

regards
doneirik
 
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temujin said:
should I use a 50 ohm resistor in series with the source?
doneirik
I am surprised you do not include an antenna at the end of your 50 ohm coax, otherwise you really don't have a load attached to your HF circuit. Yes you can use a 50 ohm resistor to model the 50 ohm coax and matched antenna. In practise that is called a "dummy load".
 
Last edited:
Actually I do include the antenna...(I am afraid to write antenna because I´m working on magnetically coupled RFID, not really antennas...)...I was actually wondering about how to depict the source...

So if I use a 50 ohm resistor to model the load and the coax cable, is this resistor also modeling the 50ohm output impedance of the source? I think this 50ohm output impedance has nothing to do with the source´inner resistance, but I´m not sure...

regards
doneirik
 
temujin said:
Actually I do include the antenna...(I am afraid to write antenna because I´m working on magnetically coupled RFID, not really antennas...)...I was actually wondering about how to depict the source...

So if I use a 50 ohm resistor to model the load and the coax cable, is this resistor also modeling the 50ohm output impedance of the source? I think this 50ohm output impedance has nothing to do with the source´inner resistance, but I´m not sure...

regards
doneirik
The simple SPICE model would have an ideal RF voltage source with a series 50 Ohm resistor to model the RF signal source, and that drives a 50 Ohm resistor to ground to model the transmission line and its termination (the antenna if it is well matched to the 50 Ohm coax).

The next level of modelling would have the same RF source (ideal AC voltage source and 50 Ohm series output impedance), and you would use a transmission line model in SPICE to model the coax, and you would use a complex impedance at the end to model your antenna. That way you would get a more accurate view of the SWR and power radiated.

You can also add more detail to your SPICE model by doing a more accurate representation of the transmitting amplifier as well, instead of just the ideal RF voltage source and 50 Ohm output impedance.
 

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